Discuss Notion Music Composition Software here.
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Hi guys. Is there somebody out there that is willing to teach me how to use the mixer to pan instruments in a really good professional way...not only left/right but especially depth placing eg how to place instruments in front (or behind) of others, just like on a stage. Sort of 3D panning. Is this possible. Please help if possible.

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Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, Roland Duo Capture External Sound Card, 4TB Seagate Super Fast USB 3 External HDD, 64bit OS (Windows 10 Pro), Sibelius 8.3, Notion 5, Notion for iPad, StaffPad, Finale 2011, Encore, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra (plus countless demos and minor notators)
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by johnnewberry on Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:02 am
Mixing a 3 piece group is one thing. Mixing dozens of orchestral instruments is another.

The scientific method of both can be quite complex. Early reflections whether recorded by a microphone in a room with or without hard walls or the reflections in a digital effects algorithm can be difficult to get correct offering a convincing realistic sounding stage or room.


Someone at the old forum site shared this with us a while back: "Virtual Sound Stage":
I say it's worth checking out. I haven't needed it. My orchestral setup pretty much has stayed the same for a couple years know.
Anyway, check this out>
http://www.parallax-audio.com/

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For years I've just used a seating chart like the image below, and as in the forum topic here dicusses.

viewtopic.php?p=8986#p8986

A set of headphones or a (stereo) speaker system that has the proper triangulation (providing the sweet-spot) needed for this task and acting as a virtual observer-listening in an audience I'd pick a perspective (a seat in the hall).
I then would "pan and level" each instrument as it would be heard from my virtual listener space in the audience.
(the reverb size and reflection settings come next).

This next part is easier said than done and without adding too much in details I'd just say that subtle sonic changes using only settings that minimize obvious dry/wet signals that ruin the realism and balance should be the goal.
Like cooking with salt. You can add more later; however, you can't remove it if there is too much.
(after recording). Less is more; however, there is always the vst named D-verb though. If that work I don't know.

Also picking the type of reverb and/or delay (hall, plate etc.) is subjective.

I'd start by adding two reverb effects. Mixer busses probably are the best place to add these which will allow for reverb panning.
One reverb for the left-side of the stage and one for the right-side.
(I use the Lexicon PCM reverb bundle. Good reverbs with low CPU loads).

Set the reverb early-reflection settings to simulate the opposite walls distance in feet.
The amount of send to the reverb also can simulate the distance from the microphone or listener. Depth of field if you will. Washed out some. Not as direct or close.

seatingchart.gif
seatingchart.gif (9.03 KiB) Viewed 7289 times


As mentioned, audio manipulation is scientific.
Don't be confused. That's why there are audio engineers.

However, for most of our needs trial and error with some time testing can work ok.
Common sense and some luck and that's good enough as I see it.
Engineers in studio recording sessions I've been have asked for feedback because of the subjective nature of records.

Also don't forget that studying the relative dynamic ranges of all instruments is of great importance too.
E.g. The sonic levels of 1 flute = 40 violins in the real instrument world. -see- "Treatise on Instrumentation" written by Hector Berlioz.


FWIW the EWQLSO platinum library I now use was recorded and balanced with stereo stage positioning maintained and includes the surround-sound environment capabilities. So I don't use panning or volume with that instrument library. The score does the mixing which definitely makes it easier to focus on the music and not the mixer.
Post-production recording is another issue yet methods I've used have helped avoid going back and redo music parts before mixing-down a project.

Everyone has their own methods when it comes to these tasks.
This topic is a study and could go on and on and on.
It's subjective and there really isn't a "right way".

If it sounds good what more is there?

Good luck.

P.s. Reversing Notion 5 panning handle positions, the effect of : viewtopic.php?p=41023#p41023

,Newberry

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by hansnel1 on Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:51 am
Thank you so much for your wonderful input. I'm going to take some time and explore into everything you shared with me.

Throughout the years I got accustomed to the left/right idea of panning within music software. In Notion 5, it is the first time I'm presented with a three-point panning control, and I'm not quite sure what the third point is used for. I thought it was for placing the depth of the instrument. Anyway, I'll admit to a learning curve here.

Thank you again.

________________________________________________________________________________
Intel i7 3.60GHz , 16Gig DDR3 Ram,2 X SSD's, Roland Duo Capture External Sound Card, 4TB Seagate Super Fast USB 3 External HDD, 64bit OS (Windows 10 Pro), Sibelius 8.3, Notion 5, Notion for iPad, StaffPad, Finale 2011, Encore, Sonar X3, EWQLSO Platinum, EWQL S. Choirs, QL Spaces, NotePerformer & EDIROL Orchestra (plus countless demos and minor notators)
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by johnnewberry on Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:54 pm
hansnel1 wrote In Notion 5, it is the first time I'm presented with a three-point panning control, and I'm not quite sure what the third point is used for.


In Notion 5 the mixers middle pan control handle represents and controls the "center" point of an instruments stereo image within the total full stereo field. And the L & R handles represent and control the "width" or spread of the "center" within the full total stereo field.

,Newberry

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by johnnewberry on Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:13 pm
Food for thought.

Mixing in Stereo: Adding Width and Depth to Your Recordings.
by Daniel Keller :
http://www.uaudio.com/blog/studio-basics-mixing-stereo/

,Newberry

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by johnnewberry on Tue May 12, 2015 7:15 pm
I forgot to mention this.

I picked this up from an online weekend sale at Waves.com for one-third of the normal price. (it worth the regular price)
Been wanting/waiting a long-time for this type of stereo pan, spread and imaging software plugin. Wow!

It's ultra lite cpu footprint means using many,many instances is a norm if needed.
For an orchestral project containing dozens of vst instruments this is hands down the best panning and stereo imaging tool I could ask for. Has dozens of presets and is ultra easy to create your own. Just add to mixer insert, tweak and go! Really light. It's normal sounding. Adds no real color. It's like it's not even there. Just shapes the spread of frequency I think. Clean!
I don't work for or sell this stuff. I'm just sayin'. So is this one for the vst fx toolbox? Xxx! yes.

PS22 Stereo Maker:
from Waves.com_"The PS22 is unsurpassed for mono-to-stereo emulation, enhancing individual tracks, and rebalancing the spatial imaging of stereo mixes."

http://www.waves.com/plugins/ps22-stereo-maker

ps22-stereo-maker.png


from Waves.com_"PS22 StereoMaker is a set of tools for creating convincing stereo results from mono source material as well as a set
of true stereo-in/stereo-out processing tools for synthesizing a richer stereo effect from existing stereo material.
It is far more than merely another “pseudostereo” effect. It is a mixdown and remastering tool capable of producing
subtle or dramatic stereo effects of a kind and quality previously impossible - something that will become an
essential tool in everyday stereo production of all kinds."


,Newberry

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