Discuss Notion Music Composition Software here.
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shanecoombs wrote. . . while the part of Notion that is in Studio One is excellent, there are still some very basic things missing like even the ability to control dynamics

Study the Studio One Professional 6 Music Notation Editor and its Graphic User Interface (GUI) more carefully . . . :reading:

THOUGHTS

Music notation editing was introduced in Studio One Professional 5; and it's expanded and enhanced significantly in Studio One Professional 6 . . .

[NOTE: The music notation in Studio One is in continuous view; so there are no repeats and alternate endings. Those things were devised four hundred years ago primarily to conserve sheep and ink; and they are quite illogical in the 21st century in a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application--although there are ways to do "loops", but I avoid looping . . . :P ]

Many of the icons for the various music notation articulations, playing styles, dynamics, and so forth have a tiny arrow in the lower-right corner; and these arrows are used to show lists of options, items, and parameters . . .

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Dynamic Icon

Click on the arrow and the relevant list appears . . .

These are the available dynamics:

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Dynamic Marks

For reference, there also are Articulations of Force; and they have a separate icon ("sf") and list . . .

This is just one way to control dynamics; and it's done with traditional dynamic marks in the music notation; but there are more ways to control dynamics in Studio One . . .

Remember that the music notation is playing Instrument Tracks that host native PreSonus virtual instruments or VSTi virtual instruments; and this maps to being able to use Automation of volume levels to control dynamics . . .

Additionally, you can control dynamics via "ducking" by using the volume level of a vocal, voice-over, or instrument to lower the volume levels of instruments and voices automagically so that, for example when the voice-over is active, the instruments are lowered in volume but return to their regular volume level when the voice-over or singing stops or pauses . . .

Yet another way to control dynamics is by using the Haas Effect to increase perceived loudness based on the fact that the human brain combines two identical sounds arriving in a 5 milliseconds to 25 milliseconds time interval and causes the two sounds to be perceived as one sound but louder . . .

Haas Effect ~ Wikipedia

[NOTE: The fascinating aspect of the Haas Effect is that it's a perceptual phenomenon that increases perceived loudness without increasing the volume level physically. It sounds louder but actually is not physically louder. This is used in advertising to avoid Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rules and restrictions on the levels of broadcast audio which in some respects are designed to prevent your radio and television from exploding; and it's most easily recognized in the announcing for monster truck rallies and wrestling events . . . :P ]

Once the audio generated via music notation playing an Instrument Track is recorded to an Audio Track, you can do manual double-tracking and similar techniques, which affects dynamics primarily via the Haas Effect if you include some variable flanging, a tiny bit of delay, and so forth . . .

This is something George Martin did when producing the Beatles for their singing and for George Harrison's lead guitar solos, where in the early days, they would sing the same vocal melody two or more times (double+ tracking) or George Harrison would play the same lead guitar part two or more times, and these double+ performances were recorded and mixed to move the singing and lead guitar solos to the front so they were easier to hear and were more clear and distinct. . .

If you listen carefully with studio-quality headphones or Apple AirPods, you can hear the double-tracking in "Can't Buy Me Love" (Beatles) . . .

[NOTE: It's easier to hear in the 2015 stereo remaster, but it's also obvious in the original monaural recording from the 1960s when you know about double-tracking . . . ]

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[NOTE: If you want to hear the full, original monaural recording, then you will need to buy it at the Apple iTunes Store. This about 26 seconds of it . . . ]

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SUMMARY

Instead of having fewer options for controlling dynamics in Studio One Professional 6 as compared to NOTION 6, there are many more ways to control dynamics in Studio One Professional 6 . . .

Depending upon your genres of focus, once you understand how to use compressor-limiters and other VST effects plug-ins to control dynamics, you might not need to waste time specifying dynamic marks in music notation, especially when you understand how to use Automation, where for reference I do not use articulations, dynamics, and playing styles in music notation, because there are better ways to do those things in Studio One when doing producing and audio-engineering . . .

In fact, I listed only some of the different ways to control dynamics in this post; and other than mentioning "ducking"--which I do with Pro-C2 (FabFilter Software Instruments)--I did not elaborate on using various VST effects plug-ins to control dynamics . . .

You can use brickwall equalizers to create frequency-range partitions for various instruments like electric bass and kick drums, so that each one has its separate sonic space . . .

Combine frequency-range partitioning with "ducking", and this adds clarity; since in the electric bass and kick drum strategy, the electric bass tends to be a sustaining or droning instrument while the kck drum is a percussive instrument; so you "duck" the electric bass using the volume level of the kick drum; and the result is that the kick drum temporarily owns the sonic space when it's hit but otherwise the electric bass owns the sonic space . . .

This is something Chariie Watts did manually for some of his snare drum rimshots, where he only played a snare drum shot by itself--no kick drum. hi-hats, cymbals--to propel the snare drum rimshot to the front for a few milliseconds . . .

It looks awkward until you understand the brilliance of doing it this way . . .

[NOTE: It's easiest to see at 5:19 . . . ]

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[NOTE: You can hear "ducking" in my science fiction radio plays, which is one of the ways I move my voice-overs to the front of the mix, where this is mixed for listening with studio-quality headphone and Apple AirPods, of course . . . ]

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Lots of FUN! :)
Last edited by Surf.Whammy on Wed May 17, 2023 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by shanecoombs on Wed May 17, 2023 11:23 am
Surf, all the different things you say are true, but what's missing is something much more fundamental and, for me, important.

For me (and I suspect for many) the single, exclusive reason and purpose for using Notion to be able to compose with standard music notation and get VST playback without having to invest time with DAW workforce editing controllers and automation and so on and so forth. The concept of rules and what they made possible was revolutionary at the time.

I CAN conpose in a DAW, as many professionals dontheae days, but I much, much, much prefer just writing a score.

Now as I said, if Studio One gives me the ability to do that AND have DAW capabilities to fine tune using all the methods you mention them I'm totally down for that. That would be great.

But right now the "compose with regular musical notation" part is a complete no-go in Studio One because you can't control basic things like dynamics without turning to those more DAW-like options.

The only thing Studio One interprets is dynamic markings to velocity, just like the original Cakewalk could do on its score editor 30 years ago. If a VST controls dynamics with CC1 or CC11, as almost all do, you can't write the music on the staff and have it work. Any kind of continuous changes like hairpins are impossible. Etc.

Sure, Studio One has plenty of basic DAW features like the ability to modify dynamics in all these more "programmy" way, but getting away from that requirement is why I first bought Notion many years ago with version 3.
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by davidlarson6 on Wed May 17, 2023 1:20 pm
Yes, exactly. The developers of Studio One seem to believe that the "normal" way to control dynamics is via Velocity. That only works for percussive sounds like piano, drums, pizzicato, staccato, etc. Most orchestral voices are controlled by Expression or Modulation.

Studio One's expression mapping does not allow for linking notated dynamics to CC.

Also...
Surf said:
The music music notation in Studio One is in continuous view; so there are no repeats and alternate endings. Those things were devised four hundred years ago primarily to conserve sheep and ink; and they are quite illogical in the 21st century in a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application--although there are ways to do "loops", but I avoid looping . . . :P

The point of Notation software is primarily to create human-readable scores. Conventions like Repeats, Second Endings, Signs, Codas, etc. help to reduce page-turning, which is important to performing musicians.

DKLarson

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by Surf.Whammy on Wed May 17, 2023 4:14 pm
Toward the goal of clarity, my current perspective is that I am neither a typical Studio One aficionado nor a typical NOTION aficionado . . . :)

THOUGHTS

[NOTE: In this post, I am doing what Jazz musicians call "riffing" and having FUN touch-typing and exploring various stream of consciousness ideas, history, and thinking fueled by huge quantities of very strong coffee . . . ]

For what I desire and need to do, Studio One Professional 6 is perfect . . .

My perspective is a blend of Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) thinking; music notation thinking; and using virtual instruments played by simple music notation, where "simple" in this context maps to avoiding the use of nearly all music notation marks (articulations, dynamics, playing styles, and so forth), since generally I think such things primarily are a frivolous waste of time for my desires and needs . . .

In a perhaps real sense, I am not what I think a typical Studio One aficionado is; and similarly I think I am not what a typical NOTION aficionado is . . .

This is my perspective; and as a musician I try to be a friend to all and an enemy to none . . .

Like all people, I have strong beliefs and opinions; but they apply primarily to myself rather than to anyone else . . .

If I were guessing, then my best guesses are that Studio One aficionados either (a) know nothing about music notation or (b) have no interest in it . . .

Instead, I think when they use virtual instruments, they play them with MIDI in what I suppose is "piano roll" style sequencer mode, which is not music notation . . .

Here in the sound isolation studio, music notation is a combination of notes and rests, along with a few useful marks like ties, slurs, glissandi, tuplets, and a few other practical things . . .

On the NOTION side of the world, I have no interest in rules and everything that travels with rules, including articulations, dynamics, playing styles, and all that stuff, which in essence makes me not a typical NOTION aficionado . . .

Again, if I were guessing, then my best guess is that NOTION aficionados have little interest in the DAW aspects of Studio One . . .

Explained another way, I can play the various instruments that appear in early-Beatles songs accurately (drums, bass, guitar, and a bit of keyboards); but anything else is not something I can do with real instruments--things like brass, woodwinds, bowed strings, and lots of other instruments--hence the need to use music notation and virtual instruments . . .

For practical purposes, music notation and virtual instruments are my "musical group"; and this strategy has the advantages (a) of being completely and totally controllable and (b) of not requiring interacting with musicians and singers, although I have had real musical groups at various times over the years, something which mostly was a pleasure . . .

A few years ago, I discovered Realivox Blue (Realtone), and she is my virtual female soprano . . .

From this perspective, it's accurate conceptually to consider that I use music notation and virtual instruments to create caricatures or simulicra of real musicians, perhaps even intelligent automatons--always with a keen focus on being minimally sufficient to provide what is necessary for producing and audio-engineering, where one of the goals is to avoid complexity whenever possible in the music notation . . .

In other words, I need my virtual musicians to play notes when necessary and to be silent otherwise; and I need them to do this as simply as possible, hence the goal of avoiding nearly everything other than notes and rests, along with a small set of things like slurs, glissandi, tuplets, and so forth . . .

Why the focus on simplicity? :roll:

The answer is that once the notes and rests exist, I can work with them when in producing and audio-engineering mode using VST effects plug-ins and specific subsets of sampled sounds . . .

If I need an instrument played in a specific way, then I use a virtual instrument and a specific set of sampled sounds, which is the simplest way to do this, because it requires no articulations, dynamic marks, playing styles, and all that music notation stuff . . .

If the sampled sounds are chromatic, where every note is played and digitized, then this is the most realistic it can be--as contrasted to what I call "diatonic" samples where only every other note actually is played and digitized, which maps to half the notes being computed via logarithmic interpolation, hence not realistic, at all . . .

Explained in more detail, every mark and symbol added to basic music notation (notes and rests) requires and introduces some amount of arbitrary computing that changes and modifies what otherwise are pristine digitized samples played by trained musicians and vocalists; and some of them are outright destructive are at least insulting in the sense of adding injury to harm, wihere the best examples might be dynamic marks . . .

Among other facts, NOTION is a MIDI editor that communicates with VSTi virtual instrument engines in an approximation of real-time using MIDI commands and various parameters that tell the VSTi virtual instrument what to do . . .

A set of samples can be elaborate to the extent, for example, of having notes played at different volume levels--however one desires to define "volume levels"--but it's more likely the specific set of sample notes has one volume level, which in MIDI will be a fixed value in the range of 1 to 127 . . .

There will be a corresponding "map" of dynamic values specified by "pppp" to "ffff", where perhaps "mf" maps to 64 so that when NOTION requests the engine generate a note at volume level "64", the engine takes the unadulterated, original audio and reduces (or perhaps increases) to MIDI "64" . . .

It's completely arbitrary, and unless the requested volume level is the one the trained musician played, then it's a computed value, which makes it arbitrary and artificial . . .

This is no different from using Automation to control a Volume Slider on the Mixing Board; but what is different is the belief that doing it via a dynamic mark somehow is not arbitrary and artificial in every respect, which here in the sound isolation studio is a matter of accuracy and honesty . . .

It's also the one of the reasons I do not use dynamic marks . . .

There also is the matter of listening device, which is either (a) a studio monitor system or (b) studio-quality headphones or Apple AirPods, where the general rule is that you need to listen to music played by a calibrated full-range studio monitor system with a flat equal-loudness curve running from 20-Hz to 20,000-Hz at 85 dbSPL measured with a dBA weighting or 90 dbSPL measured with a dBC weighting sufficiently long in terms of months to develop and accurate intuitive sense of how this maps to headphone listening and mixing, typically to knowing how to set the values of different instruments when doing headphone mixing . . .

In other words, you need to establish a "cookie cutter" system for configuring your set of instruments, where for example you have verified values for the VST effect plug-ins used with a MODO BASS (IK Multimedia) Gibson EB-0 "Devil Bass", where the Vintage Program Equilizer (IK Multimedia) is set to the "FATT1-A" preset and output level "6.5" with a Brickwall Limiter (IK Multimedia) set to a specific present, or whatever suits your fancy at the time . . .

Along the way you will have developed a keen understanding and an intuitive sense of the various LED indicators, flashing lights, and so forth, which maps to a strong knowledge of what one might call the "edge of reasonableness" in the sense that if you respect the boundaries, then the mix will be good . . .

It might not be perfect, but it will be good in a "ballpark" way and certainly will not be bad . . .

I think there are folks who do amazing work with elaborate custom rules, elegant music notation marks, and highest quality VSTI virtual instruments and chromatic sampled-sound libraries, which is not one of my skills; but I always ask if they are listening to the music and singing played through a calibrated full-range studio monitor system (as described above)?

If they are, then I believe them; but if not, then I think they are spinning wheels and trying to dazzle me with nonsense, which is another topic and involves knowing whether one is a fundamental tone hearer or an overtone hearer as defined and described by the scientists at the University of Heidelberg, which is something about which I provide links in some of my posts, hence can be found by searching this forum using keywords and phrases . . .

The key bit of information is that fundamental tone hearers will synthesize missing fundamental tones, hence only can trust what they hear when listening to music played through the aforementioned and defined calibrated full-range studio monitor system and over time developing a mapping for doing headphone mixing . . .

[NOTE: The information and links to the audio test are in this topic from December 2018; so scroll through it until you find the information and links. At first I thought being a fundamental tone hearer was a good thing; but when it actually became clear what a fundamental tone hearer does, I realized that it maps generally to not being able to trust what one hears unless one is listening in a carefully configured listening room or sound isolation studio to music played through the aforementioned calibrated full-range studio monitor system at least for enough time to develop an accurate mapping for doing headphone mixing. For me, this explained why my mixes were bad; and once I corrected everything, it got much better. Now I can do a headphone mix and after YouTube does its excellent post-processing, the result is good. It took me quite a few years and a lot of research to solve this problem . . . ]

MUSIC: is it a human mental function, sound, or both? ~ PreSonus NOTION Music Forum

If there is something which is very difficult if not impossibe to do with music notation and a virtual electric guitar, then I play it on a real electric guitar . . .

It's not the same as having a real musical group; but it's sufficient for what I desire and need to do . . .

Switching focus to Studio One Professional 5, NOTION 6, and ReWire, I think this was the only way to have the best of both worlds; but that ended with Studio One Professional 6, since it does not support ReWire . . .

In fact, I think the focus on providing music notation in Studio One--which started with Studio One Professional 5 and continues with Studio One Professional 6--is to provide a practical solution for people like me, and "Hooray for that" . . . :+1

Based on participating for a few weeks in the Studio One Forum and reading all the posts, I think it's generally accurate to suggest there are few, if any, topics on doing music notation in Studio One . . .

Similarly, perhaps other than my posts in the NOTION forum, there are not a lot of topics on doing DAW activities, although there are posts by other folks in this regard, of course . . .

I have no insider information and am privy to nothing; but my best guess is that the music notation aspects of Studio One Professional 5 and 6 exist because PreSonus knew well in advance that ReWire was going away, even though it continues to work in Studio One Professional 5 and NOTION 6, at least with perhaps some caveats on the Mac now that Apple is switching from Intel to Apple Silicon (M1, M2, and the Pro, Max, and Ultra flavors) . . .

Perhaps making my reality all the more dumbfounding in some respects is the fact that I am doing everything on a 2012 27" iMac running macOS Catalina . . .

Everything works, including MODO DRUM (IK Multimedia), which requires at least an i5 Intel processor that does vector processing (AVX Instructions) . . .

After discovering how to create and use VSTI virtual instrument MULTIS in Studio One Professional 6 and with ReWire gone, I am finding there is a lot more available processing power, which in a practical way maps to more Instrument Tracks which are played via music notation . . .

I am not suggesting this is unlimited; but in Studio One Professional 5, NOTION 6, and ReWire, the practical upper limit was approximately 20 VSTi Instrument Tracks hosted in Studio One with the music notion being on ReWire MIDI staves in NOTION and no VSTi virtual instruments and no VST effects plug-ins in the NOTION score . . .

The strategy I used was focused on working with 20 Instrument Tracks at a time; recording the generated audio to corresponding Audio Tracks; and then reusing the 20 Instrument Tracks for more instruments . . .

Perhaps it's not so restricted on a new iMac; but here in the sound isolation studio it doesn't matter, because (a) I can do only one thing at a time and (b) I have a well-defined system for doing what I need to do . . .

Do I think NOTION is going away anytime soon?

NO . . .

Do I think Studio One will have more of NOTION included?

YES . . .

Do I think Studio One will include everything NOTION does?

Not until computers increase significantly in speed and processing abilities and the architectures of macOS and Windows change dramatically, although faster and more powerful chips can make the need for dramatic operating system and application development improvements somewhat moot . . .

Clearly, PreSonus has embedded a significant portion of NOTION directly within Studio One; which I think is as fantastic an accomplishment as SpaceX returning its rockets to Earth and landing them on ships in the ocean, something I think is mind-boggling . . .

PreSonus knows how to do everything NOTION does; and PreSonus knows how to do everything Studio One does; so in this respect, combining the two products with no loss of functionality mostly is a matter of advanced software engineering and the ability of current Mac and Windows computers to do the required work . . .

Summarizing, PreSonus is not abandoning anything . . .

Instead, I suggest there is indisputably clear evidence that PreSonus is working diligently to do more--not less--with respect to Studio One and NOTION, which might sometime in the not so distant future map to a version of Studio One that includes everything NOTION does, plus some exciting new things . . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

P. S. Light travels 1 foot in 1 nanosecond, and it takes approximately 13 milliseconds for the visual perception apparatus of the human brain to process the information; so if you are looking at something 10 feet away, then you are not seeing it as it is . . .

Instead, you are perceiving it as it was approximately 10 nanoseconds plus 13 milliseconds ago, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous! :)
Last edited by Surf.Whammy on Thu May 18, 2023 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by davidlarson6 on Wed May 17, 2023 8:25 pm
Surf.Whammy wroteToward the goal of clarity, my current perspective is that I am neither a typical Studio One aficionado nor a typical NOTION aficionado . . . :)
...
Clearly, PreSonus has embedded a significant portion of NOTION directly within Studio One; which I think is as fantastic an accomplishment as SpaceX returning its rockets to Earth and landing them on ships in the ocean, something I think is mind-boggling . . .

PreSonus knows how to do everything NOTION does; and PreSonus knows how to do everything Studio One does; so in this respect, combining the two products with no loss of functionality mostly is a matter of advanced software engineering and the ability of current Mac and Windows computers to do the required work . . .

Summarizing, PreSonus is not abandoning anything . . .


I'm glad that it's working for you. :)

As far as it being a major accomplishment to improve Studio One's score editing, I suppose that's a matter of opinion. Apple's Logic Pro has had a similar score editor for some years. I guess that's comparing Apples to Studio Ones, though! :D

I'd feel a whole lot more confident about Notion's survival if I saw any kind of update. Notion has yet to be updated to work with native Apple Silicon, and I'd say that's evidence that Presonus has lost interest in the product.

I hope you're right. :)

DKLarson

Windows 10, i9, 64GB, 3X 1TB SSDs; Macbook Pro M1 Pro, 32GB, 1TB SSD
Audient iD14, Atom SQ, Keystep 37, Studiologic SL88, Moog Sub Phatty, Kawai MP11SE, Roli Seaboard.
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by Surf.Whammy on Thu May 18, 2023 1:40 pm
A few thoughts on score editing in Studio One Professional 6 . . . :)

THOUGHTS

I started using NOTION in 2010; and it continues to be my favorite, although now my new favorite is Studio One Professional 6 . . .

In 2010 and continuing for several more years, I used Digital Performer (MOTU) as my Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) application and used NOTION in ReWire mode for script editing . . .

I experimented with Digital Performer for score editing but did not like it . . .

Around that time I also experimented with Logic Pro X (Apple) and found it to be cumbersome; but I persisted and made sense of it mostly to be able to provide a bit of help to forum members on doing ReWire with Logic Pro X as the ReWire host controller . . .

For reference, I am a "mouser", and while I have two MIDI keyboards (Behringer 25-keys and KORG Triton Music Workstation (88 weighted piano-style keys), I use the mouse and a few keyboard commands (mostly Cut, Copy, and Paste) for inputting and editing the music notation . . .

If I work at it, then I can do several genres once I make sense of them; but my primary genre is based on what one might call "Beatles" and "Pop" songs of the 1960s--songs that structurally are no more complex than "We Can Work It Out" (Beatles) at the high-end, although I like a few other genres but nevertheless with the same or similar overall structures for chords and melodies . . .

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These are two songs I composed and recorded over a decade ago when I was doing everything with real instruments; and they are typical of what I suppose are "Pop" songs, although more Rock & Roll and Rhythm and Blues . . .

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This is one of my more recent songs; and it's done with VSTI virtual instruments, Studio One, and NOTON in a ReWire session . . .

[NOTE: As with everything I post, this is best enjoyed when listening with studio-quality headphones or Apple AirPods. In this song, I had a bit of FUN with Stutter Edit 2 (iZotope) and created what I call the "Elvis Stutter" . . . ]

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Stutter Edit 2 (iZotope)

In the early-1970s, I was in Hollywood and discovered a book on Joseph Schillinger's System of Musical Composition (SoMC), which was used by George Gershwin and quite a few composers for motion picture, the latter group mostly because SoMC provides techniques for adjusting music to motion picture timelines and sequences . . .

SoMC is the basis for the Berklee School of Music, and there are online copies of most of SoMC there . . .

The Schillinger/Berklee Connection (Berklee College of Music)

BCA-007: Lawrence Berk papers on the Schillinger System (Berklee College of Music)

The official textbooks are a two-volume set; and at the advanced levels, everything is nearly beyond comprehension even when one has a strong background in Mathematics and Music Theory; but the fascinating aspect of SoMC is its ability to make sense on many levels, some of which are very simple and easy to understand, these being the ways I understand it . . .

SoMC provides a way to create rhythms, chords, melodies, harmonies, and structures, as well as arranging and orchestrating . . .

This is my SoMC diagram of the melody for "Over the Rainbow" (Harold Arlen with lyrics by Yip Harburg):

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"Over the Rainbow" ~ SoMC Primary Melody Diagram

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The practical kernel is that you can compose an entire symphony by starting with a handful of notes, which is best understood by studying George Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm", with lyrics by his brother, Ira Gershwin . . .

It's a perhaps not so subtle homage to SoMC; and the key is the four notes at the start of the melody, since everything derives from those four notes in an elaborate SoMC algebra . . .

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If you find it easy to think about patterns--which is my favorite mode of thinking--then SoMC is understood as a system of composing music based on patterns, where for example you can play a pattern forward and then play it backward; or you can flip the pattern horizontally or vertically; and so forth and so on . . .

Start with four notes; flip them horizontally and you have eight notes; and continue doing pattern manipulations until a song emerges . . .

Based on this strategy, I start with a few measures and then expand them to perhaps 32 measures, at which time a song emerges . . .

Then the structure mostly is a matter of copying and pasting, all of which is easy to do in NOTION and the Studio One Professional 6 music notation editor . . .

Detailed editing is allowed and encouraged as the song develops and instruments appear; so it's not all simple copying and pasting, but so what . . .

If you are a "mouser", then NOTION works very nicely for composing songs; and it's even easier in the Studio One Professional 6 music notation editor . . .

Becoming comfortable and proficient with music notation in Studio One Professional 6 took about a week of learning the Graphic User Interface (GUI); and I prefer it to the way everything is done in NOTION--much easier to compose the types of songs I like in Studio One Professional 6 . . .

[NOTE: In this example, each Instrument Track is a singleton; but there is a way to use a MULTI to get the same number of drumkit instruments with just one instance of the VSTi virtual instrument; and when you save the MULTI and music notation staves as a user-defined template, configuring a song is faster and easier . . . ]

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Lots of FUN! :)

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by Tuoni64 on Sun May 28, 2023 10:56 pm
Late to this party, but just reinstalled Notion on a new machine and checked to see if there we any updates.

Markets and products have to evolve and perhaps IOS and the S1 score editor are the future for Notion but it would be nice to get a clear roadmap/answer from a Product Manager at Presonus. The deafening silence is what I find unnerving.

I am a huge fan of the immediateness of Notion and switched to it many years ago from Sibelius, well before it was moved into the Presonus family. I would be disappointed to lose it but at least I'd be able to look at alternatives.

The Notion-derived score editor is great for when I'm working in S1. I don't however consider composing in a DAW and Notator to be the same process or workflow at all. They involve different mindsets. I rarely record in real-time in Notion, I enter notes the same as I would write them on the manuscript. In S1 I work with real-time recording and rarely stamp in notes using the score or MIDI editor.

I don't find the mobile app particularly useful as I mainly work/tutor at a desk, squinting at an iPad Pro is not my ideal working environment. Nor is it overly easy for working with another person. Large monitors are what is needed for that.

So, Presonus people if you are watching, at least a statement of intent would provide us all with clarity and an opportunity to plan any actions.

Cheers,
Jason.

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by davidlarson6 on Mon May 29, 2023 3:08 pm
I'm still holding onto hope. I've been a Notion user since somewhere around 2012. I started with the IOS version, and got the regular version sometime after that.

But at present, I'm using Dorico. Over the years, my compositions have become more complex (I'm writing symphonic works), and I need a more complete notation platform. With Dorico 4 (and now 5), that product had become mature enough to do everything I need. (Dorico has had three major version upgrades since Notion's last patch.)

Notion does not support VST3, and VST2 is obsolete. Meanwhile, the Studio One score editor is not yet mature enough to be a composer's tool, so neither can properly handle the combination of notation and playback without the cumbersome (and imperfect) import/export between the two.

DKLarson

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by Tuoni64 on Mon May 29, 2023 6:32 pm
Yes, I too have, reluctantly, gone the Dorico route. At least as far as the Elements version which seems to offer a level sufficient for my needs at the moment. My focus is on teaching composition which doesn't require engraving to be finessed. This is mostly a productivity cost for me, learning yet another set of key commands.

Well noted your point about VST2 versus VST3.

Many discussions argue the apparent lack of technical need to move from VST2 to VST3 as a reason not to need VST3 but miss the fact that Steinberg no longer issues commercial development licenses for VST2 development.

Existing VST2 licenses can continue to be used for existing products and for non-commercial use which gives the false impression that VST2 development is alive and kicking but only VST3 can be used for new plugin development.

As someone who tutors music technology, theory and composition I cannot justifiably use Notion as a recommended tool with my students.

This is definitely not a knock against Notion, it still works well but I think it now only serves the purpose of maintaining personal older scores/exercises.

Hopefully, it will be given a refresh in which case I'll be back on deck in a flash.

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by davidwilliams25 on Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:40 pm
I came to reading this interesting thread about Notion software after finding the links on my website (teachmusictech.com) to Notion software were all broken today. Upon investigation I note that Presonus has changed the links to:

https://legacy.presonus.com/products/Notion

Adding "legacy" as a prefix to the product URL would seem to be a strong indicator of the future of this product as integrated into Studio One. The history of this software has a long tradition back to its earliest designer, Jack Jarrett, who originally wrote the MS-DOS MusicPrinter Plus for 1980s vintage computers and then returned in 1998 with family support to design NOTION now Notion. I for one prefer to keep my notation software separate from my DAW so that it handles all the nuances demanded by professional notation and publication. Perhaps for others having a Swiss-Army-Knife DAW including notation features is desirable. But not for me. Dr. Jarrett's death in 2020 means he didn't live to see the finally resting place for his years of work perfecting notation software user friendly to composers like himself.

Dave
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by madisonfinley on Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:04 pm
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by acequantum on Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:40 pm
Well, the legacy thing sort of sums it up then.

A shame. I really do like this as a notation software. I wonder if it will become open source? Probably not if there are some intentions of integrating it fully into Studio One.
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by michaelmyers1 on Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:14 pm
Chris Swaffer clarified this on the Notion Users Facebook site. The legacy designation is temporary while there is a new website coming.

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by madisonfinley on Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:51 pm
Ah, thank you Michael.

I’ll take a look there.

Windows 11 Home, Notion 6, Studio One 6. Intel i9, 32 GB RAM
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by davidlarson6 on Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:01 pm
Yeah, it appears that it means "legacy website." If you go to https://legacy.presonus.com/products/ you'll see that all their products are there, including a separate link for "discontinued products," which contains all their old stuff. This doesn't mean anything negative about Notion, but it's a poor and awkward way of designating that it's a "holding space" while they rebuild the website.

DKLarson

Windows 10, i9, 64GB, 3X 1TB SSDs; Macbook Pro M1 Pro, 32GB, 1TB SSD
Audient iD14, Atom SQ, Keystep 37, Studiologic SL88, Moog Sub Phatty, Kawai MP11SE, Roli Seaboard.
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by herbievantetering on Sat Jun 24, 2023 4:09 am
Although Mozart, Beethoven, Mendelssohn and Brahms would have been very satisfied with Notion 6 and the Presonus LSO stock samples;

imagine a Notion 7 with brand new 24bit 48KHz round robin & legato LSO samples, and a brand new Notion sampler engine, complete CC & dynamics in the nTempo track, arrangement view, new notation edit features etc. etc.

I mean, Notion 7 in the 21st century and beyond.

Imagine how wonderful this would be if Notion 7 would "arrive at a local musicstore near you soon", how many new (and old) composers Presonus would get.
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by madisonfinley on Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:12 am
I don't understand how the new version of the website is supposed to work. Clicking on Software, Notation Software does nothing.

https://www.presonus.com/en-US/start

Windows 11 Home, Notion 6, Studio One 6. Intel i9, 32 GB RAM
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by shanecoombs on Sat Jun 24, 2023 9:43 am
madisonfinley wroteI don't understand how the new version of the website is supposed to work. Clicking on Software, Notation Software does nothing.

https://www.presonus.com/en-US/start


When I click that it brings me here: https://www.presonus.com/en-US/software.html
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by Surfwhammy on Sat Jun 24, 2023 7:23 pm
shanecoombs wrote
madisonfinley wroteI don't understand how the new version of the website is supposed to work. Clicking on Software, Notation Software does nothing.

https://www.presonus.com/en-US/start

When I click that it brings me here: https://www.presonus.com/en-US/software.html

Those pathways do not work at present (Saturday June 24, 2023 at 20:30 CST) . . . :oops:

THOUGHTS

Nevertheless, I have a subscription to PreSonus Sphere--but have not paid for this month yet--and I can login via the PreSonus Sphere pathway ("My PreSonus"):

My PreSonus (PreSonus)

Making this all the more strange, I have two PreSonus accounts--(a) one from Notion Music days, which to the best of my knowledge is not on my PreSonus Sphere subscription and (b) one from when I purchased Studio One 5 and is on my PreSonus Sphere subscription . . .

A few years ago after the time PreSonus acquired NOTION, the customer support folks told me it was best and easiest to keep the two accounts independently, since attempting to combine them probably would not work and likely would map to losing all my account history . . .

For reference, I started using NOTION when it was Notion Music, several years before NOTION became part of PreSonus in 2013 . . . :reading:

I did an experiment and used the My PreSonus pathway (see link above) but logged-in with what likely is my non-PreSonus Sphere account from Notion Music days; and this worked.

SUGGESTIONS

(1) Try the My PreSonus pathway and use either (a) your PreSonus Sphere account and password or (b) your non-PreSonus Sphere account and password to login (see link above).

(2) Report the problem to PreSonus or wait a few days or weeks until they fix the problem. It's a new website, so the problem will be fixed pretty soon.

(3) Get a one-month subscription to PreSonus Sphere and try using it to login. :roll:

SUMMARY

It works for me when I use the My PreSonus pathway (see link above) but not when I do it the way you folks tried; so (a) it's a real and verified problem but (b) there is a solution for PreSonus Sphere subscribers that might work for everyone, including the PreSonus Sphere subscribers who have not paid for this month, yet . . .

Lots of FUN! :)
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by Surf.Whammy on Sat Jul 01, 2023 5:06 am
The "regular" login pathways continue to be broken . . . :(

THOUGHTS

On the good side, the My PreSonus login pathway works, as of July 1, 2023 (see my previous post for the link) . . .

Lots of FUN! :roll:

Surf.Whammy's YouTube Channel

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!

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