Discuss Notion Music Composition Software here.
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Notion's last Update is dated January 2021. Is there any movement yet and what can we expect?
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by matthewguertner on Fri May 20, 2022 7:25 pm
Last update was August 24, 2021.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you as I'd love to know if the software is still being supported or if they are slowly killing it off.
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by muziksculp on Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:03 pm
Notion 7 would be great !

When will it be released ? is the big question.

Studio One Pro 6.0.2 , FaderPort 8, ATOM. (Windows 10).

HW Synths, Virtual Instruments, Sample Libraries, HW & VST Effects, and Various Acoustic Instruments
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by davidlarson6 on Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:41 pm
If they are planning to maintain it as a viable commercial product, then I suspect we'll see something before too long. Dorico 4 released recently, with much stronger features, and Musescore 4 (a free product) is in Alpha testing, and is also likely to outperform the current Notion.

DKLarson

Windows 10, i9, 64GB, 3X 1TB SSDs; Macbook Pro M1 Pro, 32GB, 1TB SSD
Audient iD14, Atom SQ, Keystep 37, Studiologic SL88, Moog Sub Phatty, Kawai MP11SE, Roli Seaboard.
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by muziksculp on Mon Jun 06, 2022 10:43 pm
davidlarson6 wroteIf they are planning to maintain it as a viable commercial product, then I suspect we'll see something before too long. Dorico 4 released recently, with much stronger features, and Musescore 4 (a free product) is in Alpha testing, and is also likely to outperform the current Notion.


Yes, I agree. It's time Presonus releases Notion 7, and shows the competition how good it is. I think it will also boost Studio One Pro sales, especially if the integration of these two apps is very well implemented.

I'm hoping that Studio One Pro 6, and Notion 7 will be the next big releases this year.

Studio One Pro 6.0.2 , FaderPort 8, ATOM. (Windows 10).

HW Synths, Virtual Instruments, Sample Libraries, HW & VST Effects, and Various Acoustic Instruments
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by herbievantetering on Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:01 am
With Notion 6, sometimes when you think a feature is missing you can already do it using a Custom VST Rule or some other workaround.

Notion 6 is already very good, not much Notion 7 could add to make it better, I love Notion 6. Notion 7 would only be a waste of a great program.
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by muziksculp on Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:03 am
herbievantetering wroteWith Notion 6, sometimes when you think a feature is missing you can already do it using a Custom VST Rule or some other workaround.

Notion 6 is already very good, not much Notion 7 could add to make it better, I love Notion 6. Notion 7 would only be a waste of a great program.


Really ? Serious ? :roll:

I hope Presonus will be releasing Notion 7 this year. There is always room for improvement.

Studio One Pro 6.0.2 , FaderPort 8, ATOM. (Windows 10).

HW Synths, Virtual Instruments, Sample Libraries, HW & VST Effects, and Various Acoustic Instruments
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by davidlarson6 on Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:16 am
herbievantetering wrote
Notion 6 is already very good, not much Notion 7 could add to make it better, I love Notion 6. Notion 7 would only be a waste of a great program.

I'm not sure how a new version would do harm to the present version. Nobody is obligated to update.

In any case, there are a number of areas where Notion 6 fails to match with competing products like Dorico and even MuseScore. There's a lot of room for improvement.

DKLarson

Windows 10, i9, 64GB, 3X 1TB SSDs; Macbook Pro M1 Pro, 32GB, 1TB SSD
Audient iD14, Atom SQ, Keystep 37, Studiologic SL88, Moog Sub Phatty, Kawai MP11SE, Roli Seaboard.
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by muziksculp on Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:30 am
davidlarson6 wrote
herbievantetering wrote
Notion 6 is already very good, not much Notion 7 could add to make it better, I love Notion 6. Notion 7 would only be a waste of a great program.

I'm not sure how a new version would do harm to the present version. Nobody is obligated to update.

In any case, there are a number of areas where Notion 6 fails to match with competing products like Dorico and even MuseScore. There's a lot of room for improvement.


Well said. :thumbup:

I totally agree, currently Dorico, MuseScore, and some other notation programs are ahead of Notion 6, and are the ones more composers use. Why ? because they are better than Notion 6. So, if Presonus wants to compete with them, it needs to bump up their game with Notion 7.

Looking forward to Notion 7 Hopefully it will be a more popular, and highly competitive with the other notation programs, and offer very tight integration with Studio One Pro 6. Which I'm also excited about, and looking forward to its release.

Studio One Pro 6.0.2 , FaderPort 8, ATOM. (Windows 10).

HW Synths, Virtual Instruments, Sample Libraries, HW & VST Effects, and Various Acoustic Instruments
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by Surf.Whammy on Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:59 am
Dorico, MuseScore, a few other notation programs, and Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) applications cannot do what NOTION and Studio One Professional do . . . :ugeek:

THOUGHTS

Here in the sound isolation studio, the focus is on creating songs and science fiction radio plays in ReWire sessions with VSTi virtual instruments, VST effects plug-ins, music notation, and a few real instruments and voices, along with Realivox Blue (RealiTone), my favorite VSTi virtual female soprano who melodically sings phonetic scripts and runs in Kontakt (Native Instruments) . . .

[NOTE: This is mixed for headphone listening with studio-quality headphones like SONY MDR-7506 headphones (a personal favorite). There are at least 50 VSTi virtual instruments, most of which have been recorded to Audio Tracks; and there are motion and panning effects designed specifically for headphone listening. It's the same for "Flying Saucers" . . . ]

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


The music notation is in NOTION on ReWire MIDI staves--except for Realivox Blue, who is on a VSTi Instrument staff and sends her audio to Studio One Professional via a pair of ReWire channels . . .

Studio One Professional is the ReWire host controller and hosts the VSTi virtual instruments, VST effects plug-ins, and does the producing, audio engineering, and mixing . . .

It's the only way to do this, and once you develop a few techniques it's easy to do, where the primary technique is to work with 20 Instrument Tracks at a time and then to record the generated audio to Audio Tracks, after which you can start developing another set pf 20 VSTi virtual instruments . . .

In the virtual music universe, this is the same strategy used to compose, record, produce, and mix "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" (Beatles), which was done with a set of 4-track magnetic tape machines over 50 years ago . . .

In some respects, it's what one might call "old school", except (a) you do not need a real musical group (other than the instruments and voices you play, sing, and speak) and (b) you do not need to hire a symphonic orchestra, string quartet, horn section, vocalists, or any other ensemble . . .

You need VSTi virtual instruments, sampled-sound libraries, and VST effects, of course; and you need to be proficient in music notation, arranging, producing, and audio engineering . . .

You can see the various steps in this topic on the PreSonus NOTION forum:

Project: "Extreme Gravity: Chapter 10 (Darla's Sexy Dance)" ~ PreSonus NOTION Forum

Not counting the time required to write the story and dialogue, this took two months working perhaps every other day . . .

Depending on which sources you favor, "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" (Beatles) took from 330 to 700 hours to record, produce, and audio engineer; and this was over 5 months rather than just 2 months . . .

The runtime for "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" (Beatles) is approximately 40 minutes, which is twice the runtime for "Chapter 10: Darla's Sexy Dance", and the instrumentation is similar in most respects, although parts of the Beatles album are more elaborately instrumented . . .

One might suppose that if I worked on it 18 hours every day, it could be done in less than a month, which based on 20 minutes runtime maps to requiring 6 months to do the score for a motion picture that runs for 120 minutes and might be easier since there are strong visual components in a motion picture, as contrasted to a science fiction radio play where the visual components are in my mind and are "shown" on what I call the "big screen" of my imagination . . .

At least some motion picture scores are done this way, so there are other strategies, which include providing music notation to real musicians, orchestras, and vocalists, but so what . . .

When you use high-quality sampled sound libraries, the result is the same or similar; but doing it with NOTION and Studio One Professional is vastly easier and considerably less expansive . . .

For "Chapter 10: Darla's Sexy Dance", I created the basic Intro and Outro, which mostly are the same for every chapter, and then composed and recorded a syncopated drum track, which I used as a metronome when recording the voice-overs . . .

Later, I decided to keep he drumkit tracks and added a second drumkit to do embellishments . . .

Conceptually, it's like listening to the words and "painting" instrumentation . . .

NOTION and Studio One Professional make this as easy and straightforward as possible, and nothing else does this in a practical, interactive way . . .

For example, if I wanted to add Scottish instruments (bagpipes) and Indian instruments (sitar and melodic drums), then this can be done in a ReWire session where Studio One Professional is the ReWire host controller and NOTION is the ReWire helper device, all done interactively . . .

I know enough music theory to be dangerous, but I mostly do everything "by ear", which makes it vastly important to work in ReWire sessions . . .

Add some VSTi virtual instruments to Studio One Professional; compose some music notation on ReWire MIDI staves in NOTION; play it back; listen to it; and then decide if it needs any changes . . .

SUMMARY

I paid for my college studies by working in a grocery warehouse where over several years before there were barcodes, I put individual sticky price tags on approximately 50 million tubes of Crest® toothpaste; so I have the ability to do absurdly repetitive and boring tasks when there is a logical reason to do them; and composing, recording, producing, and audio engineering at times are a bit repetitive and occasionally equally boring, but there is a logical reason to do it . . .

You can do this interactively in NOTION and Studio One Professional with music notation, VSTi virtual instruments, VST effects plug-ins, and a few real instruments and voices in ReWire sessions, and there is no other pair of applications that does this . . .

NOTION and Studio One Professional are unique in this respect . . .

Lots of FUN! :+1

Surf.Whammy's YouTube Channel

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by muziksculp on Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:08 pm
Hi @Surf.Whammy ,

Thank You for your interesting, and helpful post about using Notion with Studio One Pro via Rewire.

I haven't tried this. So, I will check your YouTube videos.

Do you have specific videos that show how to set them up via Rewire ? That would be very helpful.

I also Subscribed to your YouTube channel :thumbup:

Cheers,
Muziksculp

Studio One Pro 6.0.2 , FaderPort 8, ATOM. (Windows 10).

HW Synths, Virtual Instruments, Sample Libraries, HW & VST Effects, and Various Acoustic Instruments
User avatar
by Surf.Whammy on Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:49 pm
muziksculp wrote
Do you have specific videos that show how to set them up via Rewire ? That would be very helpful.

I also Subscribed to your YouTube channel :thumbup:

Cheers,
Muziksculp

Glad to help, and thanks for subscribing to my YouTube channel! :D

THOUGHTS

This is the link to the project I started in 2018 on doing ReWire with NOTION and Studio One Professional:

Project: ReWire ~ NOTION + Studio One Professional (PreSonus NOTION Forum)

I need to review it to ensure no updates are needed, but I think it's generally the same as it is now . . .

Some of the screen captures will be different, since Studio One Professional has been updated, as has NOTION 6 . . .

There is a specific YouTube video that shows how to connect the ReWire MIDI staves to the VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Studio One Professional.

This will save you a lot of time, since for the most part it is not documented anywhere in a straightforward way . . .

[NOTE: Ensure the two options for the ReWire object in Studio One Professional 5.5 are checked as shown in the yellow-outlined box. Recently, I forgot to check the "Multiple MIDI Outputs" option, and it took me a day or two to realize what it does. This is what lets you map ReWire MIDI channels in NOTION to VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Studio One Professional 5.5. It needs to be checked, as shown. The YouTube video shows how to do the mapping of VSTi virtual instruments to NOTION ReWire MIDI buses and channels, but remember that for it to work "Multiple MIDI Outputs" needs to be check (or "set", depending on the respective operating system terminology (Mac or Windows) . . . ]

Image
Studio One Professional ~ ReWire Object

This is one of the YouTube videos showing how to setup a Studio One Professional ".song" and the NOTION score for ReWire:

phpBB [video]


This is the YouTube video that shows how to configure Studio One Professional and NOTION for mapping the VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Studio One Professional to the ReWire MIDI staves in NOTION:

phpBB [video]


I do everything on the Mac, so some of the screens will look different from the way they look in Windows, but it's basically the same . . .

You need to start Studio One Professional first, which makes it the ReWire host controller' and then you can start NOTION, which makes it the ReWire helper device . . .

Similarly, to end the ReWire session, save your work; quit NOTION; and then quit Studio One Professional . . .

While you are learning how ReWire sessions work, you might click on the wrong thing or do something that causes a problem; so if this happens reboot your computer . . .

The Rewire infrastructure operates separately, so if it gets confused, your computer will become confused; and the solution is to reboot . . .

This will make sense after a while, and you will discover the rules for keeping everything working nicely . . .

It's good to save your work frequently, of course . . . :+1

I usually save a version of the studio One Professional ".song" and NOTION score for each important step as I move forward; and I give the versions unique, meaningful names like "S1-Song-PT-1.song" and 'N6-Song-PT-1.notion:, all in a high-level folder or directory for the song . . .

This way, if i need to revisit something, I can do it--although always going forward is easiest . . .

I work with 20 Instrument Tracks at a time; and when I am happy with them, I record the generated audio to corresponding Audio Tracks and then reuse the 20 Instrument Tracks for a new set of 20 VSTI virtual instruments . . .

Audio Tracks have low overhead; but Instrument Tracks require more computing, since they are sending MIDI to the various sampled-sound engines (Kontakt [Native Instruments], SampleTank [IK Multimedia], and so forth).

I do submixes via buses; so, for example, all the horns might be on a separate bus, which makes it possible to hide the individual horns and work just with the horn section bus, which also can be recorded, at which time you can remove the individual horn tracks from the ".song" . . .

Remember to keep an archive of each step in the high-level folder or directory for the song, so you can redo steps if necessary . . .

It's usually OK to leave all the ReWire MIDI staves in NOTION; since if they are not used, it's not a lot of overhead to have them in the score--although when the song grows to 20 minutes, it's probably too long for a NOTION score when there are a lot of ReWire MIDI staves all populated with notes . . .

By that time, most of the instruments have been record to Audo Tracks in Studio One Professional, so you can save the NOTION score and then remove most of the ReWire MIDI traks for instruments that have been recorded to Audio Track in Studio One Professional . . .

You only need to see the music notarion as reference points for a few audio Trackes since even though NOTION is sending MIDI to Stgudio One Professional, the Instrument Track have been removed, so there actually is nothing to play, because it's already been played and recorded as audio . . .

It's the Instrument Tracks that have significant overhead in the Studio One Professional ".song"; so you need to manage it by working with only 20 Instrument Tracks at a time . . .

Consolidate as the song develops; and this way you only need to work with a few tracks rather than more tracks than will fit on your computer display . . .

It takes a while to develop a system, which basically is like a cookie cutter . . .

This is the way musical groups were recorded in the 1960s and probably are recorded today when they do an album of songs . . .

The folks at Motown had their system so refined they could record a hit song in one day or perhaps even a few hours . . .

In the early years, the Beatles would record an entire album in one day . . .

I tend to have a set of instruments at the album level, where for example the drum, cymbal, and Latin percussion tracks are the same for 10 or 20 songs . . .

I save a Studio One Pofessional ".song" and NOTION score, which I use as templates for the "basic rhythm section" of all the songs . . .

Once you have the templates, you can import them to a new Studo One Professional ".song" and copy them from one NOTION score to a new NOTION score as needed . . .

You also can open a template and then do a "Save As . . . " to create a new song . . .

I call them "templates"; but they are just ".song" files and ".notion" files . . .

Just remember to do a "Save As . . . " when you use them to create a new song . . .

Using the Beatles as an example, you have a Studio One Professional ".song" with Ringo Starr's drumkit, Paul McCartney's electric bass, John Lennon's rhythm guitar, and George Harrison's lead guitar . . .

You might have acoustic guitars and some Latin percussion instruments, as well . . .

It might take an hour or two to do this; but when it's configured, you can save the ".song" and ".notion" score as templates and then use them to start new songs in just a few minutes . . .

Ringo usually played the same drumkit at least for an album, so a lot of the work is done after you setup the templates . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

Surf.Whammy's YouTube Channel

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
User avatar
by muziksculp on Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:09 pm
Surf.Whammy wrote
muziksculp wrote
Do you have specific videos that show how to set them up via Rewire ? That would be very helpful.

I also Subscribed to your YouTube channel :thumbup:

Cheers,
Muziksculp

Glad to help, and thanks for subscribing to my YouTube channel! :D

THOUGHTS

This is the link to the project I started in 2018 on doing ReWire with NOTION and Studio One Professional:

Project: ReWire ~ NOTION + Studio One Professional (PreSonus NOTION Forum)

I need to review it to ensure no updates are needed, but I think it's generally the same as it is now . . .

Some of the screen captures will be different, since Studio One Professional has been updated, as has NOTION 6 . . .

There is a specific YouTube video that shows how to connect the ReWire MIDI staves to the VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Studio One Professional.

This will save you a lot of time, since for the most part it is not documented anywhere in a straightforward way . . .

[NOTE: Ensure the two options for the ReWire object in Studio One Professional 5.5 are checked as shown in the yellow-outlined box. Recently, I forgot to check the "Multiple MIDI Outputs" option, and it took me a day or two to realize what it does. This is what lets you map ReWire MIDI channels in NOTION to VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Studio One Professional 5.5. It needs to be checked, as shown. The YouTube video shows how to do the mapping of VSTi virtual instruments to NOTION ReWire MIDI buses and channels, but remember that for it to work "Multiple MIDI Outputs" needs to be check (or "set", depending on the respective operating system terminology (Mac or Windows) . . . ]

Image
Studio One Professional ~ ReWire Object

This is one of the YouTube videos showing how to setup a Studio One Professional ".song" and the NOTION score for ReWire:

phpBB [video]


This is the YouTube video that shows how to configure Studio One Professional and NOTION for mapping the VSTi virtual instruments hosted in Studio One Professional to the ReWire MIDI staves in NOTION:

phpBB [video]


I do everything on the Mac, so some of the screens will look different from the way they look in Windows, but it's basically the same . . .

You need to start Studio One Professional first, which makes it the ReWire host controller' and then you can start NOTION, which makes it the ReWire helper device . . .

Similarly, to end the ReWire session, save your work; quit NOTION; and then quit Studio One Professional . . .

While you are learning how ReWire sessions work, you might click on the wrong thing or do something that causes a problem; so if this happens reboot your computer . . .

The Rewire infrastructure operates separately, so if it gets confused, your computer will become confused; and the solution is to reboot . . .

This will make sense after a while, and you will discover the rules for keeping everything working nicely . . .

It's good to save your work frequently, of course . . . :+1

I usually save a version of the studio One Professional ".song" and NOTION score for each important step as I move forward; and I give the versions unique, meaningful names like "S1-Song-PT-1.song" and 'N6-Song-PT-1.notion:, all in a high-level folder or directory for the song . . .

This way, if i need to revisit something, I can do it--although always going forward is easiest . . .

I work with 20 Instrument Tracks at a time; and when I am happy with them, I record the generated audio to corresponding Audio Tracks and then reuse the 20 Instrument Tracks for a new set of 20 VSTI virtual instruments . . .

Audio Tracks have low overhead; but Instrument Tracks require more computing, since they are sending MIDI to the various sampled-sound engines (Kontakt [Native Instruments], SampleTank [IK Multimedia], and so forth).

I do submixes via buses; so, for example, all the horns might be on a separate bus, which makes it possible to hide the individual horns and work just with the horn section bus, which also can be recorded, at which time you can remove the individual horn tracks from the ".song" . . .

Remember to keep an archive of each step in the high-level folder or directory for the song, so you can redo steps if necessary . . .

It's usually OK to leave all the ReWire MIDI staves in NOTION; since if they are not used, it's not a lot of overhead to have them in the score--although when the song grows to 20 minutes, it's probably too long for a NOTION score when there are a lot of ReWire MIDI staves all populated with notes . . .

By that time, most of the instruments have been record to Audo Tracks in Studio One Professional, so you can save the NOTION score and then remove most of the ReWire MIDI traks for instruments that have been recorded to Audio Track in Studio One Professional . . .

You only need to see the music notarion as reference points for a few audio Trackes since even though NOTION is sending MIDI to Stgudio One Professional, the Instrument Track have been removed, so there actually is nothing to play, because it's already been played and recorded as audio . . .

It's the Instrument Tracks that have significant overhead in the Studio One Professional ".song"; so you need to manage it by working with only 20 Instrument Tracks at a time . . .

Consolidate as the song develops; and this way you only need to work with a few tracks rather than more tracks than will fit on your computer display . . .

It takes a while to develop a system, which basically is like a cookie cutter . . .

This is the way musical groups were recorded in the 1960s and probably are recorded today when they do an album of songs . . .

The folks at Motown had their system so refined they could record a hit song in one day or perhaps even a few hours . . .

In the early years, the Beatles would record an entire album in one day . . .

I tend to have a set of instruments at the album level, where for example the drum, cymbal, and Latin percussion tracks are the same for 10 or 20 songs . . .

I save a Studio One Pofessional ".song" and NOTION score, which I use as templates for the "basic rhythm section" of all the songs . . .

Once you have the templates, you can import them to a new Studo One Professional ".song" and copy them from one NOTION score to a new NOTION score as needed . . .

You also can open a template and then do a "Save As . . . " to create a new song . . .

I call them "templates"; but they are just ".song" files and ".notion" files . . .

Just remember to do a "Save As . . . " when you use them to create a new song . . .

Using the Beatles as an example, you have a Studio One Professional ".song" with Ringo Starr's drumkit, Paul McCartney's electric bass, John Lennon's rhythm guitar, and George Harrison's lead guitar . . .

You might have acoustic guitars and some Latin percussion instruments, as well . . .

It might take an hour or two to do this; but when it's configured, you can save the ".song" and ".notion" score as templates and then use them to start new songs in just a few minutes . . .

Ringo usually played the same drumkit at least for an album, so a lot of the work is done after you setup the templates . . .

Lots of FUN! :)


Thank You so much for your helpful info.

I really appreciate it.

Studio One Pro 6.0.2 , FaderPort 8, ATOM. (Windows 10).

HW Synths, Virtual Instruments, Sample Libraries, HW & VST Effects, and Various Acoustic Instruments
User avatar
by davidlarson6 on Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:28 pm
It will be interesting to see if Presonus products continue to support the use of Rewire. It's a proprietary protocol that Propellerhead has discontinued. Or has there been some move to release it as an open protocol?

DKLarson

Windows 10, i9, 64GB, 3X 1TB SSDs; Macbook Pro M1 Pro, 32GB, 1TB SSD
Audient iD14, Atom SQ, Keystep 37, Studiologic SL88, Moog Sub Phatty, Kawai MP11SE, Roli Seaboard.
User avatar
by ennbr on Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:16 pm
davidlarson6 wroteIt will be interesting to see if Presonus products continue to support the use of Rewire. It's a proprietary protocol that Propellerhead has discontinued. Or has there been some move to release it as an open protocol?



I've heard the same thing that Propellerhead had announced Rewire is no longer supported and discontinued

Bruce

Computers:
Mini PC Ryzen 7 6800H, 64GB DDR5, 2TB M.2 boot, 4TB data Win 11
Laptop ASUS Ryzen 7 6800H, 64GB DDR5, 2TB M.2 4TB SSD data Win 11
Software: Studio One Pro 6, Notion 6.8, Melodyne Studio 5
Audio Interfaces: Moto 1248, M4
External Storage: Samples 3x 2TB SSD's, Projects 4TB SSD
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by Surf.Whammy on Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:29 am
Subject to regulatory approval, Fender Musical Instruments Corp. is acquiring PreSonus Audio Electronics, Inc.; and when the acquisition is completed this will bring changes, although at present one only can speculate what the changes might be . . . :)

THOUGHTS

What we know at present is that the Fender website has a subset of PreSonus products, including Studio One Professional as part of a hardware bundle . . .

We do not find NOTION at the Fender website, but so what . . .

Most of the PreSonus products, hardware and software, are not listed at the Fender website; and regardless of any other interests, we think Fender is very interested in the PreSonus sound reinforcement products, since they expand the Fender presence in that arena . . .

What about ReWire and it's future with NOTION and Studio One Professional? :reading:

It's true that Reason Studios (formerly Propellerhead Software) have abandon ReWire, as has Steinberg . . .

Rollback the clock several decades, and the Propellerhads and Steinberg jointly developed ReWire; but they parted ways for a few decades, and the Propellerheads took control of ReWire . . .

Steinberg focused on Virtual Studio Technology (VSTi virtual instruments and VST effects plug-ins), and the Propellerheads focused on Reason being entirely self-contained as a single application which could communicate with other applications via ReWire, but only as a ReWire slave or helper device . . .

Fast forward two decades, and Reason Studios released the Reason Rack, a VST Reason Rack, as well as a virtual festival of third-party support for Reason Rack components . . .

Reason now supports VST, as well . . .

Steinberg created Dorico and an advanced flavor of VST, but no support for ReWire . . .

From this one might infer that ReWire is history; but I suggest there is more to it . . .

One might also suggest that Fender has no interest in Studio One Professional, NOTION, and all the associated PreSonus digital music production software, except that would be stupid from the perspective of the long run . . .

There always will be folks who want to play guitars and basses, but the so-called "Youth of Today" are computer savvy and have no difficulties understanding and using digital music production software . . .

As stated clearly in my previous post, the combination os Studio One Professional, NOTION, VST, and ReWire is unique . . .

Nothing else does it directly in an intuitive and straightforward way . . .

There are alternative strategies, but (a) they are cumbersome and (b) they interfere with the creative process by forcing interruptions required to transfer data manually between music notation applications and Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) applications, which conceptually is like putting a mainframe computer "batch processing" requirement in the middle of the creative process, which is "so 1950s" and essentially ignorant, as well as being vastly disrespectful, all because such companies and their software engineers are too lazy to do the work required to make composing, recording, producing, and audio engineering songs using VSTi virtual instruments, VST effects plug-ins, and music notation, as well as real instruments and vocalists . . .

Watch one of my YouTube music videos and observe the ReWire session where Studio One Professional is in the top half of the screen and NOTION is in the bottom half of the screen . . .

Both of them are running simultaneously, and the ReWire infrastructure handles the inter-application communication, data exchanges, and keeps the timeline synchronized so that Studio One Professional, NOTION, and the various VSTi virtual instruments, VST effects plug-ins, and sampled-libraries are doing the right things at the right times . . .

Is ReWire the only way to do this? :roll:

No, but it's currently the easiest way to this and is verified to work perfectly . . .

FACT: Everything you see on a computer screen is done with a combination of hardware and software, so if you can see it, then it's possible and usually practical.

FACT: Studio One Professional, NOTION, and ReWire are an unique combination. Nothing else does this.

There are other ways to replace the ReWire infrastructure, and they are possibilities . . .

Getting the rights to ReWire is a possibility, as well . . .

It's also possible that PreSonus will switch to the "1950s batch processing" strategy and thereby eliminate the only smooth and easy, non-interrupted creative process currently available on this planet, which of course would make PreSonus digital music production software just as stupid, ignorant, and cumbersome as all the other DAW applications, music notation applications, and so forth . . .

Doing ReWire with Studio One Professional, NOTION, VSTi virtual instruments, and VST effect plug-ins is an advanced activity that is not fully documented anywhere other than in this forum in my posts, but so what . . .

There is no rule which states it's supposed to be trivial . . .

If you want to create songs by yourself in your sound isolation studio using digital music production software in a way nearly identical to the way songs are recorded, produced, audio engineered, and mixed in professional studios, then the ReWire session is the easiest and most practical way to do it . . .

When one person is doing everything or nearly everything, each thing needs to be done a step as part of a layer . . .

In the 1950s, Elvis Presley songs where preformed and recorded in the studio with all the musicians, singers, and Elvis playing and singing the song in real-time, which is simply amazing . . .

In the early 1960s, this is the way the Beatles recorded their songs, and they were able to record an entire album in one day to two-track magnetic tape machines at Abbey Road Studios, which also is simply amazing . . .

As multitrack magnetic tape machines and consoles became available, the focus shifted to recording one part and voice at a time, but so what . . .

Yet, today when one person is doing everything or nearly everything, it's done one instrument or voice at a time, since that is the only way one person can do everything . . .

I develop songs interactively and usually record the audio generated by several VSTi instruments on Instrument Tracks in Studio One Professional to corresponding Audio Tracks in Studio One Professional; so there is a bit of flexibility with respect to doing only one thing at a time, but nearly everything is done using a combination of "by ear", music theory, and fine-tuning one instrument and voice at a time . . .

There are other ways to do it, but they are not interactive in real-tme . . .

Instead of working on the song, you are forced to work on music notation; to stop and send it to the DAW application; and to go back and forth, which is annoying and totally disrupts the creative process, hence is stupid . . .

The other side of the possible dilemma is that it does not matter, since for starters I am doing this on a 2013 Apple 27" iMac with a 4TB internal hard drive and 32GB of system memory running macOS Catalina . . .

It's a 10 year-old Mac and a 3 year-old operating system . . .

It runs the current versions of the PreSonus software and the various VSTi virtual instruments and VST effects plug-ins . . .

If new versions stop working as I desire, then I can "freeze" everything and keep on trucking for years . . .

I also have two Mac Pro (Early 2008) machines and a Mac Pro (Mid 2010) machine; and they run everything except MODO DRUM (IK Multimedia) since it requires vector processing that is not supported by the XEON processors on the Mac Pro machines here in the sound isolation studio . . .

I like MODO DRUM, but after using it a while, I switched to Addictive Drums 2 (XLN Audio) and the John Bonham "Blue Oyster"Ludwig drumkit . . .

Image

Other than MODO DRUM, the only other exception for the Mac Pro machines is Stutter Edit (iZotope), which requires the first version; but I found the first version on eBay for $50 and use it on the Mac Pro machines . . .

The 2013 Apple 27' iMac runs Stutter Edit 2, which I also have, so it's all good . . .

[NOTE: I created a custom stutter that I call the "Elvis Stutter", and I used it on "The Ballad of Dare L. Dupree", which is mixed for headphone listening. There are motion and panning effects, hence listening with headphones is best . . . ]

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Lots of FUN! :)
Last edited by Surf.Whammy on Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by davidlarson6 on Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:20 am
Surf.Whammy wroteAs stated clearly in my previous post, the combination os Studio One Professional, NOTION, VST, and ReWire is unique . . .

Nothing else does it directly in an intuitive and straightforward way . . .


No disagreement there. The JACK protocol, used primarily on Linux, can do it (and more) but not in a simple seamless way.

One possibility (maybe a likelihood given the recent changes to Studio One) is that the entire function of Notion will be rolled into Studio One, eliminating the need for any kind of inter-app communication. Since about version 5.3, Studio One's Score Editor has become a usable composing/editing tool, to the point where I have switched over from Notion for most of my scoring work. (Greatly simplifying my workflow.) I'd say S1 is maybe halfway to being a full scoring editor.

Given that nowadays most composers work directly in the DAW, I see this as a logical direction for Presonus to take. Why have two pieces of software to maintain and support, whose functions overlap?

I guess time will tell. :)

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by Surf.Whammy on Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:11 pm
muziksculp wroteThank You so much for your helpful info.

I really appreciate it.

Glad to help! :)

THOUGHTS

[NOTE: If you already now this stuff, then perhaps it will help someone else . . . ]

There is another option you need to set, and it's in Studio One Professional 5.5 Preferences on the "Network" pane of the "General" tab:

Image

This is the networking option that allows NOTION to send music notation and stems or audio directly to Studio One Professional and vice-versa . . .

I think it's separate from ReWire, but on the Mac it's checked (or "set", depending on operating system terminology) . . .

It's used to send data from Studio One Professional to NOTION and from NOTION to Studio One Professional . . .

There is a corresponding option in NOTION Preferences, as shown in my first post to this topic (see above) . . .

This is documented somewhere, but it's sufficiently important to document it here . . .

A few years ago, PreSonus posted information about doing the network sends; and it's documented there . . .

[NOTE: It's probably documented in the respective User Guides, but finding it requires reading the User Guides . . . :roll: ]

Another good bit of advice is that on the Mac there is the Audio MIDI Setup utility application, which handles creating and managing what in UNIX are called "pipes" . . .

When you are using External MIDI staves, you need this to create buses, but it's not part of Windows; so for Windows you need a third-party utility like LoopBe1 or VirtualMIDI . . .

LoopBe1 (nerds.de)

VirtualMIDI (Tobias Erichsen)

[NOTE: One of the advantages of ReWire MIDI is that it creates its own "pipes", so you do not need separate MIDI buses . . . ]

In this context, "pipes" are like TS (Tip Sleeve) monaural cables, TSR (Tip Sleeve Ring) stereo cables, and so forth which used in patchboards to connect external signal processor to consoles and so forth . . .

The Fabulous Fifty Million Dollar Trinaural Stratocaster® has two separate and independent output signals, each with its own set of knobs and controls, and instead of the standare TS connector, it is a TSR connector and uses a TSR cable that splits at the end to two TS cables, which I connect to two sets of effects pedals, each of which makes it stereo, hence there are four channels of guitar that combine to create what I call a "Wall of Guitars" . . .

[NOTE: It took about a year to do all the custom mods, which included extensive routing of the Fender American Deluxe Stratocaster body to make room for the additional knobs and controls. the "Fifty Million" part comes from the Elvis Presley album that states "50,000,000 Elvis fans can't be wrong", and the "Trinaural" part refers to the TSR (Left-Right) stereo output jack, which one might suppose is binaural, but "trinaural" sounds better. . . ]

Image
The Fabulous Fifty Million Dollar Trinaural Stratocaster® featuring the Really Big Knob

The key bit of information is that all the various options, buttons, and controls in the GUI for the Studio One Professional Mixing Board, each VSTi virtual instrument engine, and the NOTION ReWire buses and their respective channels, actually are virtual software patchbay cables, implemented in some instances via UNIX pipes on the Mac, which is done since macOS sits atop a UNIX foundation . . .

The same thing happens when you send audio from NOTION to Studio One Professional in a ReWire session via NOTION channel pairs (which are stereo) . . .

It's software and Graphic User Interface (GUI) stuff, but behind the scenes it's emulations of patch bay cables . . .

Until you discover this, it appears to be a big jumble of various options, buttons, controls, parameters, and so forth . . .

But when you realize what is happening behind the scenes, it's just configuring an elaborate patchbay using virtual cables . . .

Historically, this begins with the telephone switchboard . . .

Image

In Studio One Professional, when you add VST effects plug-ins as Inserts to a track in the Mixing Board, Studio One Professional connects the required inputs and outputs; and when you change the order or sequence of the VST plug-ins, the "ins and outs" are adjusted automagically . . .

Image Image

From this perspective the Studio One Professional Mixing Board is an elaborate "patchbay" or "switchboard" with some advanced capabilities and functionalities like volume sliders, Automation controls, panning controls, Inserts, Sends, routing to Buses, monitoring controls, record and playback controls, and so forth . . .

Folks who have worked in a recording studio or sound reinforcement know about this, but I think it's not something one can presume everyone knows . . .

I think knowing the "patchbay" and "switchboard" aspect makes it easier to understand virtual mixing boards, UNIX "pipes", ReWire, and a lot of other stuff . . .

The information is there, but I think software engineers and technical writers working with it so intimately that after a while they tend to forget that it's super advanced information that most folks do not know, which is natural and the way it works with a lot of high technology stuff . . .

Having a strong background in software engineering, recording, and sound reinforcement, most of this stuff is intuitive; but even then, it took me a while to do the various mappings of "real -to-virtual" and vice-versa . . .

In some respects, my value-add is based on remembering when I did not know all this stuff and found it vastly frustrating to make sense of it . . .

So I write treatises on this stuff and make a diligent effort to explain it in great detail without omitting anything . . .

This has the advantage of making it more logical and understandable for me, since when I can write about something, I tend to understand it intimately . . . :+1

Lots of FUN! :)

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by ennbr on Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:34 pm
I would suggest we get back on topic and stop talking about depreciated dead standards

"When can an Update be expected from Notion?"

Although I would love to see a Notion 7 it looks more like the functionality is gradually being moved into Studio One I would have not problems if that were the direction.

It's going to take a pretty big upgrade with lots of missing features added to Notion to bring me back as a user I only use Notion for its MusicXML export features at this point.

My day to day notation software is now Dorico

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by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:16 am
ennbr wroteI would suggest we get back on topic and stop talking about depreciated dead standards

"When can an Update be expected from Notion?"

Although I would love to see a Notion 7 it looks more like the functionality is gradually being moved into Studio One I would have not problems if that were the direction.

It's going to take a pretty big upgrade with lots of missing features added to Notion to bring me back as a user I only use Notion for its MusicXML export features at this point.

My day to day notation software is now Dorico

Sounds spanky, but shouldn't the question be "When is Steinberg going to update Cubase and Dorico so they work together simultaneously in real-time without resorting to awkward 1950s mainframe computer batch processing?" :roll:

THOUGHTS

If your focus is solely on engraving, then Dorico might be your best solution, but there is more to digital music production than just engraving . . .

I use NOTION and Studio One Professional, along with VSTi virtual instruments, sampled-sound libraries, VST effects plug-ins, straightforward music notation, and ReWire to create songs and science fiction radio plays . . .

I have no need for engraving and sheet music other than to create examples of music notation for posts and books . . .

If NOTION did no engraving, it would be fine with me . . .

I need to see the music notation, because it makes sense visually, which is in contrast to "piano roll" sequencer style visualizations that make no intuitive sense to me at all.

Music notation makes intuitive sense, because I learned soprano treble clef as a child when I was in a liturgical boys choir . . .

I have a good understanding of music theory, which I use, but my primary mode is "by ear" . . .

I taught myself how to play electric bass, rhythm guitar, lead guitar, drums, and a bit of keyboards, all with zero music notation . . .

This might not be particularly "normal", but it works for me . . . :+1

My perspective on music notation is that the notes are surrogates for hands, fingers, and voices . . .

When I am composing music notation for drums, the notes are drumsticks and brushes . .

When I am composing music notation for guitars, the notes are fingers on the fretboard and the guitar pick, which is the same for electric bass . . .

It's not so someone else can play it . . .

It's so I can play the VSTi virtual instrument and its sampled-sound library . . .

Regarding Cubase and Dorico, my perspective is that they are vastly too complex with the complexity serving no practical purpose when the focus is on composing songs . . .

Over the years, I have had several musical groups; and to the best of my knowledge none of the musicians and vocalists could read music notation, with the exception of horn players, of course . . .

In the 1960s, we would learn Beatles songs by listening to records and then were able to play the songs with good accuracy, which was the case in later years with other artists . . .

That was FUN, but it requires managing people; so now I prefer to manage VSTi virtual instruments and sampled-sound libraries, which I do with music notation . . .

Making it all the more simple, I do not use articulations, dynamic marks, and playing styles in music notation; and I consider messing with such marks to be a gross waste of time, which is best avoided entirely . . .

If I need a specific playing articulation, dynamic, or playing style, then I select a set of sampled notes that were played by a trained and proficient musician, recorded, and then digitized to create the sampled-sound library . .

Done this way, it's the nearest to a real performance that is possible in virtual digital music production . . .

I control dynamics and other characteristics with VST effects plug-ins and Automation in Studio One Professional . . .

This works for me and for what I want to do; and from this perspective I see no reason for any updates to NOTION and Studio One Professional other than to keep current with new versions of macOS and Windows (for folks who prefer Windows) . . .

For a while, I pondered some functionality that might be useful to add to NOTION, where one example was a set of drumkit rhythms; but I realized that I could do this in a NOTION score and then use it to copy and paste drumkit parts to another NOTION score . . .

Yet, I never pursued the idea, because by the time I devised a way to do it, I was was sufficiently proficient in drumkit notation to do it rapidly, hence there was no need to have a canned set of music notation for drums . . .

I also realized that Reason (Reason Studios) has various "drum machines", synthesizers, and so forth that make it relatively easy to generate computerized music . . .

If you start from scratch, it takes an hour or two to configure a Studio One Professional ".song" and a NOTION score for doing what I call a "basic rhythm section"; but once you have it configured you can save it and then use it as user-defined "templates" to do the basic rhythm section for a new song in a matter of minutes by opening the "templates" and doing "Save As . . ."

You need to compose the music notation, of course, but you do not need to configure everything, because it's already configured in the ".song" and ".notion" templates . . .

There is merit to having "cookie cutters" and a "song factory", which is the way Motown and the Beatles created songs more than half a century ago . . .

Overall, electric bass, rhythm guitar, and lead guitar are my primary instruments, but drumkits make sense to me and I can play them, as is the case with keyboards, although mostly in an intuitive, ad hoc way, where I can play keyboard parts to songs in real-time on the fly without needing sheet music or much of anything else, which at best is an unusual but useful skill that I taught myself via directed dreaming and fearlessly allowing my unconscious mind to take control for a while . . .

Consider the piano for "Hey Sugar Britches", which was composed, preformed, and recorded when I was doing everything with real instruments and was composing the various parts in real-time on the fly, recorded usually on the first take . . .

[NOTE: In the mid-1970s an audio engineer told me that "Paul McCartney recorded everything for the 'R.A.M' album on the first or second take", which I thought was so amazing that I started doing it, although at first it was a bit frightening, but after a while became intuitive. Fast forward 30 years, and I discovered the "on the first or second take" aspect was just for a few harmony vocal parts, not for everything; but by then I was doing everything that way. At first, I was concerned there would be a knock on the door and FBI Special Agents would tell me that doing spontaneous music was against the law and everything that is good, but I worked through such fears . . . :P ]

"Hey Sugar Britches" was done over 10 years ago when I was exploring the idea of being Pretend Elvis; and it's totally silly, but so what . . .

[NOTE: This is remastered for headphone listening . . . ]

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I devoted a bit of attention to writing the lyrics and composing the rhythm guitar chords, which are all I need to know to compose and play everything else in real-time on the fly, totally spontaneously with nearly no conscious thinking . . .

Did I need precomposed sheet music to play the piano, drumkit, and lead guitar?

No . . . :+1

All I need are the lyrics and the rhythm guitar chords, which I compose in advance . . .

Listen to the piano, and ponder whether anyone could transcribe it . . .

I can play that style of Rock and Roll piano, but I cannot write music notation for it . . .

It might be an extraordinarily stupid way to have FUN, but I like it . . .

My strategy for NOTION, Studio One Professional, ReWire, VSTi virtual instruments, VST effects plug-ins, and music notation is the same . . .

I switched from real instruments to virtual instruments starting in 2010, and the primary reason was to get better sound quality, plus being able to add more instruments than I can play . . .

SUMMARY

It's spanky to suggest that NOTION needs to be updated, but that's based on the presumption that NOTION actually needs to be updated . . .

[NOTE: This is mixed for headphone listening . . . ]

phpBB [video]


Lots of FUN! :)

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