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Hello ,

i had to write a piece with an organ and a violon section.

When the both play a simple F Major together it sound horrible , like if the tempered scale is not respected.

I try it on different tonality , this is the same...

What can i do for that ? is there a comma regulation in the soft ?

thank you
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by freeguitar on Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:58 pm
I noticed that sometimes ago, when I wrote some test scores; it seems church organ is tuned at about 430 hz instead 440.....

Mac Mini 2,3 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 - Maverick OS X 10.9.3 - Presonus Firestudio Project - Logic pro X - Presonus Studio One 3.3 - Cubase 7.5 - N.I. Komplete 9 - EZ Drummer - Notion 6
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by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:16 am
freeguitar wroteI noticed that sometimes ago, when I wrote some test scores; it seems church organ is tuned at about 430 hz instead 440.....


NOTION 6 is not set by default to use standard Concert A (440-Hz), so you need to set the Global Tuning reference pitch to 440-Hz in NOTION 6 Preferences . . .

Image

Définissez-le dans NOTION 6 Préférences dans l'onglet Audio.

Lots of FUN!
:)
Last edited by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by huascadave on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:19 am
great , but in fact it fix nothing because the organ and the violon still play in different tuning...

But thank you very much.

If you know it well , why brass section are unavailable now ???
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by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:32 am
huascadave wrotegreat !

Thank you very much.

If you know it well , why brass section are unavailable now ???


You might need to reinstall the Brass Section, if it's an add-on item . . .

NOTION 6 is fine, but try reinstalling the Brass Section and then activating it . . .

The file will be available in your User Area at the PreSonus website . . .

If the file is present on your computer, then you probably just need to activated it . . .

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Lots of FUN! :)

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
User avatar
by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:38 am
huascadave wrotegreat , but in fact it fix nothing because the organ and the violon still play in different tuning...

But thank you very much.

If you know it well , why brass section are unavailable now ???


Try using Concert Tuning . . .

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When you change Global Tuning, you need to exit NOTION 6 and then to restart NOTION 6 for the changes to apply . . .

If none of this helps, then there's something wrong with the Organ sounds . . .

Lots of FUN! :)
Last edited by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by huascadave on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:39 am
mmmm ,ok :/

Thank you.

don't you know a free " pipe organ " VSTi please ?
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by huascadave on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:42 am
it doesn't work , the tuning change for the both so it stay out of tune...
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by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:09 am
Regarding the "Organ Manuals" and "Violin I (section)", I had to download the NOTION 6 Keyboards library to get the Organ . . .

After the instruments were available, I did a quick test and the Organ Manuals sounds in tune with the Violin I section . . .

The Violin I section has vibrato or tremolo, while the Organ sounds like a Hammond B-3 with the Leslie Loudspeaker motor on slow or perhaps off . . .

There are some textural differences, but they sound as well in tune as one can expect from a pipe organ and a violin section . . .

Depending on the type of organ, it probably has all odd harmonics, and they will clash with everything, except perhaps clarinets . . .

Bowed violins are just as troublesome, so overall the result is a bit chaotic and annoying . . .

It's not a combination of instruments one would want to use for a lullaby . . .

Overall, I think a Metallica song is a better choice for a lullaby when the alternative is a pipe organ and a bowed violin section . . .

phpBB [video]


This is a free pipe organ . . .

Leeds Town Hall Organ (SamplePhonics)

You will need to Kontakt 5 Player to use it, and you will need an RAR utility to combine the three RAR files into a single file to install the Leeds Town Hall Organ . . .

[NOTE: You need the full version of Kontakt 5 . . . ]

Kontakt 5 Player (Native Instruments)

This is a RAR utility for the Mac . . .

UnRAR for Mac

There are other RAR utilities for Windows machines . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

P. S. I downloaded and installed the Leeds Town Hall Pipe Organ (SamplePhonics), and it requires the full-version of Kontakt 5, since otherwise it only works for 15 minutes at a time with the free Kontakt 5 Player. It's not a library, so you have to use it as a file-based instrument, which is easy to do if you know how to navigate Kontakt 5 . . .

If you don't have the full version of Kontakt 5, it's useful to know that Native Instruments usually has a 50-percent discount sale at least once a year during Thanksgiving Holiday week. Last year they also had a 50-percent discount sale in late-Spring or early-Summer . . .

So, instead of the full-version of Kontakt 5 costing $400 (US), it costs $200 (US), which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!
:ugeek:

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by huascadave on Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:41 am
ok , i will try to change the section 2 by the 1.

If my memory is good , Anton Bruckner use pipe organ on some symphony and for sort of music i want to write it's important.

an idea of what i can do ? maybe the midi general pipe organ ? but how it works on notion ?

( thx for your response , i had a kontakt on my pc but the prices are too expansive for me )
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by freeguitar on Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:37 am
Surf.Whammy wrote
freeguitar wroteI noticed that sometimes ago, when I wrote some test scores; it seems church organ is tuned at about 430 hz instead 440.....


NOTION 6 is not set by default to use standard Concert A (440-Hz), so you need to set the Global Tuning reference pitch to 440-Hz in NOTION 6 Preferences . . .

Image

Définissez-le dans NOTION 6 Préférences dans l'onglet Audio.

Lots of FUN!
:)


Yes, i know that; anyway, the Organ instrument is detuned compared to the other instruments.
You have solved this problem by reinstalling brass section? I think it's an issue of the original Organ samples....

Mac Mini 2,3 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 - Maverick OS X 10.9.3 - Presonus Firestudio Project - Logic pro X - Presonus Studio One 3.3 - Cubase 7.5 - N.I. Komplete 9 - EZ Drummer - Notion 6
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by Surf.Whammy on Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:19 pm
freeguitar wroteYes, i know that; anyway, the Organ instrument is detuned compared to the other instruments.


I did not have the "Organ Manuals" and "Organ Pedals" instruments, so after doing a bit of thinking I decided to download the NOTION 6 keyboards library, and this added the two Organ instruments . . .

Then I did an experiments as noted in my post, and my opinion is that the Organ Manuals instrument is properly tuned but has a texture or sonic footprint that is a bit different, although perhaps consistent with pipe organs . . .

To me, it sounds like the way a Hammond B-3 organ sounds when played through a Leslie rotating loudspeaker when it's rotating at a slow or idle speed, which explained another way is like it's absorbing certain tones or harmonics . . .

It doesn't sound like the Organ Manuals notes are out of tune, so I think it's a texture type of thing . . .

Similarly, the "Violins I (section)" is bowed, and there is vibrato . . .

In the electric guitar universe, there are distinct differences in "tremolo" and "vibrato", where for reference in this universe "tremolo" is a fluctuation in volume, while "vibrato" is a fluctuation in pitch . . .

My background is in electric bass and electric guitar, as well as the musical genres typically associated with or favored by these instruments, so this is the way I define "tremolo" and "vibrato" . . .

Yet I have the sense that what I call a "snare drum roll" like at the start of "Walk Don't Run" (The Ventures) in music notation is called "tremolo" and is notated as a "three-line tremolo", which I suppose can make sense, but it's not the terminology I prefer to use . . .

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[NOTE: The lead guitar has a bit of tremolo, but there also is vibrato courtesy of a skillfully used whammy bar . . . ]

phpBB [video]


[NOTE: The Hammond B-3 organ is an electro-mechanical instrument, and it's usually played through a Leslie rotating loudspeaker unit. The best way I can describe the sound when the Leslie loudspeaker is rotating slowly or idling is that it's "tone sucking", which is the consequence of rotating and the Doppler effect. I have no idea how this happens with a cathedral pipe organ other than perhaps fluctuations in the units that supply air to the pipes, but regardless this is the way it sounds to me, and it's an unique tonal texture. The slow or idle speed is called "Chorale", and the fast speed is called "Tremolo". The Doppler Effect in this musical context is a type of vibrato . . . ]

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phpBB [video]


These probably are the definitive examples of electric guitar tremolo . . .

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


Connecting the dots, I think these are the important bits of information:

(1) The "Organ Manuals" sampled sounds have a sonic footprint that maps to what one might call "tone sucking" . . .

(2) The "Violins I (section)" sampled sounds are bowed and played by the violinists using vibrato, which by definition maps to a combination of (a) harsh, odd harmonic emphasis and (b) varying pitch (or "vibrato", if you prefer) . . .

In some respects, combining these two sounds tends to make them more annoying than less annoying, and for longer duration notes it's guaranteed to have at least occasionally annoying pitch fluctuations . . .

phpBB [video]


Summarizing, I think both instruments are tuned correctly, but their textures or sonic footprints are such that they interact badly or at least in a potentially annoying way . . .

freeguitar wroteYou have solved this problem by reinstalling brass section? I think it's an issue of the original Organ samples....


Reinstalling the brass section was an experiment to determine whether this would make the respective brass section instruments available, but it didn't, so I think the brass section problem requires purchasing and installing an expansion library . . .

It made some of the brass instruments available but not the brass section instruments, and I already had the non-section brass instruments . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by huascadave on Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:35 am
thank you for your time , i learn things ^^

The problem isn't fixed and probably never will...

can you use some soundfonts in notion ?
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by Surf.Whammy on Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:31 pm
huascadave wrotethank you for your time , i learn things ^^

The problem isn't fixed and probably never will...

can you use some soundfonts in notion ?


Glad to help! :)

(1) It's possible that removing the default NOTION 6 Reverb on the Master stereo output channel in the NOTION 6 Mixer will improve the native "Organ Manuals" sounds, and I base this hypothesis on the idea that the "Organ Manuals" samples are correctly tuned but have textures that are focused more on odd overtones with perhaps disturbing tremolo and vibrato articulations in the raw audio . . .

If my hypothesis is correct, then running the "Organ Manuals" sounds through reverberation can make everything worse, hence remove the Reverb from the Master stereo output and if necessary for other instruments then apply it specifically to the other instruments on an instrument-by-instrument basis, noting that this is a "producing and mixing" activity rather than a "composing" activity . . .

This might provide some improvement, but it might do nothing . . .

If nothing else, it's an interesting experiment . . .

(2) I found a VSTi virtual instrument plug-in that plays SoundFont sampled sound libraries, and it works nicely on the 2.8-GHz 8-core Mac Pro (Early 2008) with 32GB of system memory running Mac OS X 10.11.6 (El Capitan) with NOTION 6 running in 64-bit mode, of course . . .

The VSTi virtual instrument is available in Mac and Windows versions, so I think this can provide a nice solution for expanding your pipe organ footprint . . .

"sforzando" is the VSTi virtual instrument plug-in, and you can download it at the following link, where you will find the Mac and Windows flavors . . .

[NOTE: The link is found at the bottom of the page, so scroll downward to find it . . . ]

sforzando (Plogue Art et Technologie, Inc.)

Plogue Art et Technologie, Inc. is a French Canadian company, and as such they have a dual-language website, where one option is "Français" and the other option is "English" . . .

You will find some pipe organ SoundFont libraries at this link, which is a different website . . .

Lars Virtual Pipe Organs ~ jOrgan/sf2 versions

I downloaded and installed the sforzando VSTi virtual plug-in and enabled it as a VSTi virtual instrument plug-in in the NOTION 6 Plug-in Manager . . . .

Then after the SoundFont I downloaded expanded automagically via StuffIt, I located the respective ".sf2" SoundFont file and loaded it into the sforzando VSTi virtual instrument plug-in, at which time an ARIA utility did the required sampled sounds conversions; saved them to a folder I specified; and then loaded the sampled sounds into the sforzando VSTi virtual instrument plug-in that I specified for use in NOTION 6 Score Setup for a staff, done via "VST Instruments" . . .

This is the GUI for the VSTi virtual instrument plug-in when used in NOTION 6, and I think it's based on the ARIA Player . . .

[NOTE: There are additional views or "panes" for this player, and they are used to work with various options, parameters, and effects, but only the primary view or "pane" is shown in this image . . . ]

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This is one of the SoundFont pipe organ sampled sound libraries that I tested . . .

[NOTE: it's not going to look like this when loaded into the sforzando player, since the sforzando player has a different graphic user interface (GUI) design, but all the relevant stuff is there in one way or another, so it's all good . . . ]

Image

There are other SoundFont pipe organ sampled sound libraries found at the Lars Virtual Pipe Organ website, and this particular set of SoundFont pipe organ sampled sound libraries is provided by Stratman Virtual Instruments in their "Swedish Organ Series" . . .

Swedish Organ Series (Stratman Virtual Instruments)

There are pipe organ sampled sound libraries from other locations than Sweden, so it's useful to do a bit of browsing to discover what's available . . .

As best as I can determine at present the "jOrgan" technology versions include separate SoundFont files, and it's the SoundFont files (.sf2) that you want to load into the sforzando player . . .

Image

If you need a bit of help making sense of how all this stuff is downloaded, installed, configured, and used in NOTION 6, post a follow-up message to this topic . . .

There were a few things that might be a bit confusing for folks who have not yet made sense of the way everything is arranged and located in the Mac OS X infrastructure, but it's not difficult once you know where to look and so forth . . .

Summarizing, I think this maps to a virtual festival of pipe organs from all over the planet, and based on the aforementioned experiment with one of the pipe organ SoundFont sampled sound libraries and the sforzando player, this looks to work nicely with NOTION 6 on the Mac and probably with NOTION 6 in the Windows universe . . .

And most or all of this stuff is freeware, which is a bonus . . .

Lots of FUN! :)

P. S. I found all this stuff by engaging productively in something I call "The Art of Scouting Around", where one of the most useful rules is that stuff probably exists but its location is obfuscated by the inadvertent thoughtlessness of aficionados . . .

In other words, if you're an aficionado, then you know where your stuff of interest is located, and you probably presume that everyone else on the planet is a fellow aficionado, which nearly never is the actual case, hence for what I like to call "normal people", finding stuff like this is difficult . . .

My strategy is to identify the most potentially productive search terms, and this usually involves a bit of reading, where for example I started finding more useful stuff once I realized that SoundFont files have the ".st2" file extension, which was a new bit of information for me . . .

Initially, I explored various stuff based on searching for "soundfont, vsti", but that was not very productive, so I modified the search perspective and eventually found this stuff (see above) . . .

Now that apparently I am an aficionado of pipe organ SoundFont sample sound libraries and an ARIA-based SoundFont sampled sound library player that works nicely as a VSTi virtual instrument in NOTION 6, it's totally easy to find this stuff, but rollback the clock to yesterday and "Best Wishes!" on finding anything even remotely useful . . .

If it takes me a few days and several hours to find something, then I suggests it's not so easily found, but so what . . .

It's there; I found it; and it works nicely with NOTION 6, which is fabulous . . .

Fabulous!
:+1

The Surf Whammys

Sinkhorn's Dilemma: Every paradox has at least one non-trivial solution!
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by huascadave on Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:41 am
Thanks a lot , i will put it on !!

And yes , found something that is not " liked " by more than 100 people on the earth is hard to find.

i realize , too , that i have to make an effort of learning the " google langage " to be more efficient ^^

your post have to be in the HELP section of the software :+1
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by huascadave on Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:02 am
PROBLEM SOLVED !!!!!!!!

It works just fine , thank you Maestro :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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