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What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:32 pm
by Ken Krause
I am sharing my experience with the recent Windows 10 Fall Creator Update, and how I was eventually able to resolve it - just in case anyone else is having this frustrating issue.

Previously, I had two FireStudio Projects daisy chained into my Asus ROG PC. I was using a Firewire 400 to Thunderbolt cable, connected to an approved Apple Thunderbolt to Thunderbolt 2 dongle, connected to a StarTech Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 dongle. Everything was motoring along fine. I didn't use it for a couple of weeks, and when I went back in suddenly the hardware wouldn't connect to my PC anymore.

As I checked through troubleshooting, I was getting an error message that said I needed to update a driver on a 1575 controller but it was unable to install the driver. It got beyond my capabilities so I called in the Geek Squad. That guy told me that Microsoft had recently performed a major Windows 10 update (1709, the Fall Creators Update) and that there may not be a driver for my Thunderbolt port yet.

I tried for a workaround - a Firewire 400 cable into an ExpressCard34 that I had used with my old PC, which is plugged in to a Sonnet Echo Express Pro; I have a Thunderbolt 2 cable coming out of that unit into the StarTech Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 device. This setup had been previously tested and approved by Presonus. Still nothing

I was basically SOL until a driver came out. Last night (December 1) Microsoft came out with another Windows update. I installed it, then tried connecting things again with the Sonnet unit, and magically I got the happiness of a solid blue light. I moved the connection to the second unit, got that working, and then daisy chained the two units together again. So back in business.

Here is something to note: just for fun I tried making my original connection again, with the Apple dongle. Not only didn't it work, it then interfered with the setup I did have working. I had to go into the Thunderbolt software and remove the Apple device. Once I did that everything worked again. So if you have the Apple dongle in your device chain and it's not working, that could be the problem.

Hopefully this helps someone. It's been aggravating and nerve wracking, but there is a solution.

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:06 am
by ctreitzell
Hi I’d like to add my 2 cents to this FSM daisy chain on Win 10 version 1709.

I have had a FireStudio Mobile since 2013 and have been using it for my work pretty solid since then on win vista 32 and then on win 7 64; both on laptops with ExpressCard 34 firewire. Beginning of Feb 2018 I bought another FSM for daisy chaining purposes. This second FSM showed up in the mail today. It took me about an hour to incorporate the second FSM into my new system.

1) with PreSonus interfaces, make sure you have compatible FW chipset. I only use PreSonus officially tested cards.

2) In order to daisy chain, you need to think of the daisy chained hardware as one device. The drivers still work separately once the daisy chain is set up.

Here is what happened for me on my new PC running Win 10 Pro 1709 with Startech PEX1394B3 PCIe card into ASRock Z370 Fatal1ty Pro Gaming mobo:

1) follow the uninstall of Presonus UC drivers ... t-Windows-

2) make sure FW daisy chain of multiple PreSonus hardware is patched together ( my power is coming from PCIe, I had no FSM power supplies connected to my FSMs)

3) Following PreSonus set up instructions, I had re-installed UC drivers and shut down my PC to then boot after connecting the one of the FSM FW cable (btw, I am using FW400/ 1394A cables).

4) Boot computer: FSMs still not recognized

5) Restart. My PC hung, frozen on the "Restarting" screen.

6) I unplugged the FW cable from the Startech PCIe card and immediately replugged into the same FW port. When I replugged the FW cable, the computer POST resumed and computer booted as normal :-)

7) subsequent reboots are as normal for me after the daisy chain is first properly installed.

Launch Universal Control and you should see the Universal Control UI you are used to with your multiple FSMs in the bottom of the UI. My driver version is 5884

I hope this helps anyone struggling:-)

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:42 pm
by ctreitzell
Hmmmm, well first I am posting to the wrong forum
Two days after getting the daisy chain going as I described, the UC driver is hosed

first the FSMs are flashing blue/red (out of sync) :-|

So I hangs on "restarting..." screen

pull FW 1394A out of PCIe card> restart eventually happens and FSMs still blinking blue/red

re-plug FW 1394A into PCIe...still blinking blue/red

open UC> Driver version shows as

go to Presonus forum (here) to write this post...
start typing and one of the FSMs (the slave) goes solid blue; master still blinking out of sync

UC driver now showing

I gonna blame Win 10 and I plan to soak this set up for a couple of days work next week and see if the settings in Win 10 hold...

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:10 pm
by ctreitzell
So I did the other thing I turned my computer on to do and then restarted to see if another reboot would sort it

Nope...after restart> master is synced and slave had lost sync

unplug/replug slave and eventually (2-3min) the daisy chain is working again

obviously this needs to soak...I will report back afterward...and maybe move over to the FSM section as I am talking about FSM daisy chain :-)

**addendum feb 19, 2018** after posting this message, I had another sync loss after a reboot. I then launched UC drivers from desktop shortcut and got a dialog popup error stating something along the lines of "these drivers were not correctly installed, reinstall drivers". I closed the error dialog and the mixer applets launched and both FSMs went solid blue, in sync and have been solid ever since. I say this because I did not reinstall the UC drivers after the error dialog warning :-) I know it is a lot to read... Just trying to be thorough

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:38 pm
by ctreitzell
So...2 days later and the daisy chain has been least it's continuous blue lights...rebooting without issues some DAW stereo play back... Yet I haven't done any tracking yet beyond my initial test of the slave input

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:15 pm
by ctreitzell
And, carrying on with my 2 unit FSM daisy chain
I got a chance too quickly record some guitar into various inputs in the daisy chain: 4 simultaneous inputs (Fender Cyber Twin cab sim and Digitech GSP2101 left side cab sim and right side line 256 samples latency sounded good too me... Tracked into Reason 10...FSMs booted straight into sync and were solid throughout tracking =-)

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:34 am
by ctreitzell
further down the spiral....
yesterday (Feb 26, 2018) I had a Win 10 update
FSM daisy chain working fine
shut down after update....ran some errands
boot up 2 hrs later and FSMs are out of sync
attempt to launch UC; bad installation dialog:
close dialog UC opens reporting driver and showing now operational devices
try to Restart....Restarting screen hang for 5min
pull FW1394A cable which is feeding daisy FSM chain out of StarTech PEX1394B3 PCIe card and the Restart continued as normal
replug 1394A cable to PCIe during POST
FSM daisy chain still out of sync
restart successfully and FSM daisy chain in sync

just an FYI :-)

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:55 am
by ctreitzell
OK, so latest update
my FSM daisy chain has been booting out of sync at first boot of each day for a few days now.
Today it wouldn't sync with the issues I have described above.

So, today, I decided to uninstall and reinstall UC drivers exactly as described as I had made a mistake when installing previously.

UC drivers installed without a hitch today following the correct procedure.

BUT, the faint car alarm noise on the inputs is back :-[ My previous "problem" installation was silent running. I think I would prefer the silent running to the input noise.

Anyhow, so far, reinstallation has been solid and no more hangs when rebooting (so far today)

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:51 pm
by ctreitzell
Oh, mannn....and on it goes
yesterday all good
today, Win10 forces an Adobe Flash update
PC boots with FSM daisy chain out of sync :-[
I try to open UC drivers, get the old error dialog:
"The software was not installed correctly. Driver error. Please reboot your computer and/or re-install and try again."
I go to reboot...but Win is complaining things open, so I look at Win10 settings to see what Updates might be going on
Win10 Settings freezes with focus on Updates tile with Cortana circle, but will not open...I have very, very slow internet (1.6 Mbps top speed....usually less)

Eventually MS gets thru to its home server ( I have auto updates set to every 365 it is silly MS doing a pathetic Flash update...

I let it finish the update before restarting

after reboot, FSM daisy chain still out of least it no longer hangs at restarting screen...
try to open response

reboot #2: same as reboot 1

full shut down & restart: no FSM sync
try to open UC response

shut down
pull 1394A out of PCIe card
boot computer
shut down
replug 1394A cable to PCIe card (same port...well, there is only one 1394A port on this card)
Boot computer
FSMs out of sync
roll eyes
dbl clk UC shortcut on desktop
UC successfully launches
FSMs now in sync

from this continuing scenario, one could conclude some Win10 updates hose the UC driver

maybe it is time to go Antelope

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:25 am
by ctreitzell
I been out of town on a 6 month project, came home and now debugging my new i7 build

If it helps anyone:
I can confirm, when using 2 FSM daisy chained:
sync is lost when I restart
when I do a full shut down
press on button on my machine, sync appears retained

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:35 am
by ctreitzell
OK, so it appears I may discovered the reason for sync loss when rebooting as I have described;
The daisy chained FSM must be connected to the corresponding port.

There are two FW 1394A ports on the back of the FSMs. They aren't labelled beyond 1394and the FW symbol. Let's say the one closest to the 1/4" outputs is 1 and the 1394A port further out is 2.

Also, I have ensured the earliest serial number is connected to the computer and the slave is the younger serial number (I read that here about some other PreSonus audio interface).

OK, connect port 1 to computer
then connect port 2 on the master FSM to port 2 on the slave FSM.

So far, it is working solid for me ;-)

Now, that I have learned this....i am finding the daisy chain is not working for m purposes because the presonus driver labels the ins and outs as mirrors which is not recognized by Propellerhead Reason as far i can tell. Any time I attempt to route external FX as an FX send via Reason, I get a feedback loop...I haven't yet verified if this is an issue with the inputs as well....that's a test I'll carry out a little later. It may be time for a new interface or digital mixer for me.

Re: What to do if Windows 10 Fall Creator Update causes problems

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:29 pm
by ctreitzell
Well, well seems I’ve been “cascading” my daisy chain incorrectly this whole time.

This past week I set up a dual boot on my i7 8700K machine because of very poor performance of my main DAW (SawStudio) on Win 10 Pro. I decided to install Win7 64bit because SawStudio runs so well on my old laptop which is running Win7. It pretty much took me all last week, but today I completed the setup and it is soooooo worth it! To explain better, I have a SawStudio session that is hitting 50% Multitrack load in Win 10 which, under Win7 is only 8% Multitrack load! A massive improvement! :-D

The issue, though, is getting an older OS to run on a new Z370 ASRock mobo. It took dome doing.

I further ran into barriers with FireStudio Mobile UC drivers. The Win7 download I bought claimed to be fully, otiginally, I wasn’t even going to connect to the internet...well, frustrations with getting the FSM UC drivers to install lead me to Windows Update. There were 121 Urgent and 65 reccommended updates. I installed them all (kind of a mistake cuz 45 of them are avoid updates.

So, after installing all the updates, I was able to successfully install UC and sync.

Thing is, re-reading the FSM manual in-depth revealed I have been syncing the FSM boxes incorrectly. I wasn’t syncing them one at a time and afterward connecting up the daisy chain.

Tomorrow I will properly re-install my FSM cascade on my Win10 boot and hopefully will rectify my sync issues.