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Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:52 am
by Cold
Quote
"Punch in scenario.
1) Input meter shows live input. at stop, pre punch and record
2) Audio input is NOT heard pre punch (since you are monitoring on your board)
3) Existing track is heard pre punch in.
4) During record input sound is heard"
Everything except #4 is correct.
With the monitor button disengaged, input sound should not loop through the system during record. This puts us back at the situation we are trying to avoid in the first place- having both the direct (board) monitored signal and the latency delayed monitor signal coming through.
The proper response for number 4 would be to have the existing track muted during a punch in.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:07 am
by Cold
(Continued from prev post)
In the earlier versions, the existing track would continue to play even as it was overwritten.
While not optimal, it was not a big deal to split that part and mute or delete it to mitigate the problem.
I do agree that the developers have our best interests at heart, but I have to assume that none of them actually test the software using a hybrid type system, which is a serious oversight.
Being able to leave the buffer size at a reasonable amount and then dealing with monitoring latency outside of the system is a valid and usefull approach. Some musicians are incredibly sensitive to even small amounts of latency.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:20 am
by jpettit
Ok thanks
I will report it.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:24 am
by Jessa
I'm having the exact same problem??, it's been 3 months, where's the fix??, This is a basic feature and has always worked up until 3.3, please get onto this ASAP as there are a lot of us that can't work this way, I have to go back to previous version until this is fixed.
Thanks
Jess.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:21 pm
by jpettit
I know they are working on it. The challenge is it is a delicate balance between about a half dozen different monitoring workflows.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:08 pm
by Jessa
jpettit wroteI know they are working on it. The challenge is it is a delicate balance between about a half dozen different monitoring workflows.
I can appreciate that, but can you tell us when they will have a solution?. I don't understand how something this rudimentary to any DAW software can be wiped out?. Studio One is such a great platform but i fear it may be being worked to much on a software level and could lead to going backwards. Please don't forget about the traditionalist's in the recording world. Not everyone use's loops and samples to create music. Please ask them to get this sorted ASAP.
Thanks
Jess.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:43 am
by Cold
I am still waiting for a solution to this as well.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:02 pm
by danielpalm
Me too.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:03 pm
by g&s productions
I'm also waiting
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:40 pm
by jpettit
Jessa wroteI'm having the exact same problem??, it's been 3 months, where's the fix??, This is a basic feature and has always worked up until 3.3, please get onto this ASAP as there are a lot of us that can't work this way, I have to go back to previous version until this is fixed.
Thanks
Jess.
I am not sure we are all talking about the same thing. See my first post for the bare minimum that should be reported.
viewtopic.php?p=1341#p1341There was an external mixer monitoring scenario that was missing in 3.2 and reported to development, but I have not extensively test 3.2 vs 3.3 for other changes as the 3.2 issue has not been addressed yet.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:45 pm
by Jessa
jpettit wroteJessa wroteI'm having the exact same problem??, it's been 3 months, where's the fix??, This is a basic feature and has always worked up until 3.3, please get onto this ASAP as there are a lot of us that can't work this way, I have to go back to previous version until this is fixed.
Thanks
Jess.
I am not sure we are all talking about the same thing. See my first post for the bare minimum that should be reported.
viewtopic.php?p=1341#p1341
There was an external mixer monitoring scenario that was missing in 3.2 and reported to development, but I have not extensively test 3.2 vs 3.3 for other changes as the 3.2 issue has not been addressed yet.
At the moment with the latest version 3.3.3 if you enable record with the blue monitor button off and zero latency mode off (using an external out of box monitoring solution) you get no metering on the channel being recorded, it is only when you disengage the record button do we get metering on the track. I think this hes been an issue for the past 2 versions?, Anyways, it would be greatly appreciated by many, many , many users if this issue could be fixed asap..
Thanks
Jess
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:59 am
by Jessa
It's been a month, any word on if this issue is being addressed? ..
J.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:53 am
by Cold
I'm still waiting as well.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:49 pm
by jpettit
I talked to them when this was reported.
Not what you wanted to hear but there is more changes pending but in a large update like 3.5 or 4.0 and not a minor update.
They will try to simplify it and more focused on the basic use case variations of monitoring.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:35 pm
by Cold
So any sort of rough time frame?
3 months? 6 months? 1 year?
Some light of some sort?
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:17 am
by pellefridell
Hi!!
Thanks for explanation and handbook!!
Got some great input and answers in this thread, but still have a thing I can't figure out.
I'm on OSX and recently got a Studio 192.
When recording most of the times there is need of reverb. BUT... how to use the reverb from the DSP of the Studio 192 from Studio One?
When recording in a heavy session lets say I need use a buffer of 1024. Using a native reverb (like Valhalla) that gives a way too long predelay and you hear it like a delay.
Hoping for the obvious I had missed, I have really tried finding a solution looking in the manual and google.
Best regards,
Pelle Fridell
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:32 am
by pellefridell
Hi again.
Read the manual and thought I should share experiences and maybe something that needs to get fixed.
I had a vocal overdub session today in the studio, and was really trying to get the monitoring to work as scenario 3 or preferrable 4 (ZLM=ON Tape Style=OFF, Monitor=ON).
I'm used to listen to use the main mix as a cue and listen to the artists mix using tha same type headphones.
The weird thing was that we could hear audio from the sends (just the reverbs), but NOT from the fader.
It ended with me clicking the monitor button during punch-in, and thinking I must have missed something...
Best,
Pelle
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:02 am
by jpettit
pellefridell wrote1) How to use the reverb from the DSP of the Studio 192 from Studio One?
trying to get the monitoring to work as scenario 3 or preferrable 4 (ZLM=ON Tape Style=OFF, Monitor=ON).
I'm used to listen to use the main mix as a cue and listen to the artists mix using that same type headphones. <== OK so you have Cue click on in the Main out in the I/O panel?
The weird thing was that we could hear audio from the sends (just the reverbs), but NOT from the fader. <== do you mean this is all in the 192?
It ended with me clicking the monitor button during punch-in, and thinking I must have missed something... <== Your configuration scenario (above ) said you had Monitor = On already?
Pelle
1) So have you brought up the 192 DSP based reverb into your 192 Mix in the UC software? Click the FX A mix view and bring up verv. Make 192 FX A has a Small Hall or something.
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:33 am
by pellefridell
Hi Jpettit and thanks for your reply and all contribution!!
I appreciate it highly!!
Yes I have tuned in the integrated reverb in the 192, but must admit I'm confused how to control the send in the UC within Studio One. UC is locked when using Studio One and setting up sends before launching S1 seems not to work.
Though.. like today when doing some overdubs with a client, I got the impression my monitoring was doubled. Like the fader value was added together from S1 and UC. There was no phase or delay.
I'm using Z monitoring activated, and when turning down faders in S1, I still heard the input.
It hurts so say and admit, but with 30+ years working with pro audio and being the person friends are calling when they can't figure it out, I have absolutely no clue what is happening...
This might be another thread but is related to Z-monitoring.
I'm sending output 3-4 to the headphone amp. Mains to the monitor selector (big knob).
I wanted to send click out to the artist, but no click in headphones.
I tried to make Sub 2 (output 3-4) visible to enable the click icon end set level, but Sub2 was not possible to choose in the meny as it was used for cue-monitoring. On the mainfader I could choose output Sub2.
Suddenly the artist got a feedback in the phones (I was not making any loop), luckily it lasted just for a second.... NEVER, NEVER make feedback with phones. I apologized and told him I'm a big idiot, but had actually no clue at all why and what happened.
I guess it was about the tracks being armed.
Sorry for this long post.
Best,
Pelle Fridell
Re: Zero Latency/ Tape Style Monitoring Handbook
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:31 am
by jpettit
pellefridell wroteHi Jpettit and thanks for your reply and all contribution!!
I appreciate it highly!!
<== Your welcome.
Yes I have tuned in the integrated reverb in the 192, but must admit I'm confused how to control the send in the UC within Studio One. UC is locked when using Studio One and setting up sends before launching S1 seems not to work.
<== there is no control of the mix via Studio One AFAIK.
The mix or send if you will is adjusted via the 192.
All alternative mixes are in parallel and you just have to increase the input channels level for that particular mix/send page. viewtopic.php?f=232&t=12990
Click off Z mode temporarily to adjust in UC.
Though.. like today when doing some overdubs with a client, I got the impression my monitoring was doubled. Like the fader value was added together from S1 and UC. There was no phase or delay.
I'm using Z monitoring activated, and when turning down faders in S1, I still heard the input.
<== The main mixer page on the 192 is a monitor output level. This is where I would start debugging that.
It hurts so say and admit, but with 30+ years working with pro audio and being the person friends are calling when they can't figure it out, I have absolutely no clue what is happening...
<== Start with the diagram the work into the Z monitoring stuff. viewtopic.php?f=232&t=12990
This might be another thread but is related to Z-monitoring.
I'm sending output 3-4 to the headphone amp. Mains to the monitor selector (big knob).
I wanted to send click out to the artist, but no click in headphones.
I tried to make Sub 2 (output 3-4) visible to enable the click icon end set level, but Sub2 was not possible to choose in the meny as it was used for cue-monitoring. On the mainfader I could choose output Sub2.
Suddenly the artist got a feedback in the phones (I was not making any loop), luckily it lasted just for a second.... NEVER, NEVER make feedback with phones. I apologized and told him I'm a big idiot, but had actually no clue at all why and what happened.
I guess it was about the tracks being armed.
<== Pelle unfortunately each one of these points is a longer conversation to debug. Very specific PM question might work better. I don't think these stipulation is there but in the older 1818 VSL outputs 7/8 were used for Monitor amp feeds as they were parallel to the HP out but I think they are all independent in the 192. Also much of the conversation is aimed at the 192 so also suggest starting a general dialogue on 192 routing in that forum.