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Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:32 pm
by jpettit
Attached please find a five page manual explaining the MIx FX Flow and Presonus's console emulation plugin offering. It is merged/normalized content from all known sources (article or videos) of data on the topic.
I addition it includes Presonus vetta diagrams to explain the signal flow logic in simplest terms.
Update 1.21 Includes stacking of third party and Presonus Mix FX and Softube Tape Multitrack paramater discription, and fixes to pass-through logic.
Image

Enjoy
Version 1.0 (1.38 MiB) Downloaded 179 times
Version 1.1 (1.63 MiB) Downloaded 91 times

Here Marcus explains the passthrough option on Mix FX in a 12 minute video.
This is often miss understood and is the point of version 1.21 of the handbook.
Put simply Mix-FXs are mutually exclusive. The source process component of the MIx FX cannot coexist with another Mix-FX source processing. They can be stacked at the bus channel so Mix-FX can be stacked but not run concurrently on the same source track.
This is shown in all the flow diagrams but explicitly called out in the flow diagrams on page 6.

phpBB [video]

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:28 pm
by jpettit
Version 1.1 of the Mix FX and Plugins Explained Handbook.
Additions:
Added How to use Third Party Mix FX Plug-ins. Includes an example of using the Tape Multitrack Emulation Mix FX on the main bus in combination with CTC-1 Console emulation on sub-buses.
Of course since it is also a VST plugins you can you it in series with Console Shaper/CTC-1 in combination Mix FX + Plugins mode. You can also use it s a VST on each channels to simulate a multitrack tape machine feeding a classic console which feeds a classic master tape machine.
phpBB [video]

See OP for handbook.

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:19 pm
by Steve Carter
Me again... Problem with the pdf file, unable to open on my Android tablet, yet, from any other source I can download and open pdf files without any problem!
If I download your file to my iMac and then send a copy to my tablet it will open without problems - but direct from the forum link.... No - strange!!

For information only - thanks yet again for all of your input to the forum/s.
Regards
Steve...

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:29 am
by nikolaospitloglou
thanks jpettit!

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:35 pm
by jpettit
Did some quick tests on the Softube Tape Multitrack tonight.
Color (Amount, Type ABC), Crosstalk Hi Freq Trim, Speed Stability and Noise all affect each of the source channels signal just like a Console Shaper Mix FX.

So one plugins on the Main in passthrough mode is affecting all channels just like a multitrack tape machine on the sources.

Color Amounts above about 4 start to compress the signals.
Color Type A,B and C all have different harmonic distortion patterns.
Both B and C have more high frequency harmonic than A.
B has fairly linear harmonics
C has higher harmonics closer to the source frequency.

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:22 am
by jpettit
Just to let people know who are demoing Softube's Tape /Tape Multitrack Mix FX, the Mix FX handbook has been updated (1.21) to include a better explanation on how to use Mix FX in serial and in parallel as well more accurately defined Pass-through mode and added a full parameter description of Tape Multitrack.

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:08 pm
by jpettit
Nice review of this product purely from a plugin perspective and not a MIx FX perspective.
phpBB [video]
7
FYI the sale end June 30th.

Thanks, JPettit!

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:45 pm
by Davelong
You know, JPettit, I read the PDFs you create, and watch your informative videos, and I just want to express my gratitude for all the work you've done here, sharing all your insights into our much loved DAW!

You are truly a blessing to all of us here on the Forum!

Cheers!

Dave

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:01 pm
by arwelroberts
Presumably Tape MT Mix FX is placed after channel inserts in the signal flow - so we still need to use the plug in version to reproduce analog tape tracking?

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:16 pm
by jpettit
arwelroberts wrotePresumably Tape MT Mix FX is placed after channel inserts in the signal flow - so we still need to use the plug in version to reproduce analog tape tracking?

No did you read the manual?
Mix fx happened before the inserts actually inside the engine

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:44 am
by andybarilla
jpettit wrote
arwelroberts wrotePresumably Tape MT Mix FX is placed after channel inserts in the signal flow - so we still need to use the plug in version to reproduce analog tape tracking?

No did you read the manual?
Mix fx happened before the inserts actually inside the engine


Although if you wanted to combine tape & console MixFx you would need to use a plug in to emulate a full analog flow. Right?

I'm thinking Tape on the Master and a console MixFX on the buses. The tape passthrough wouldn't end up on the individual tracks because there's a MixFX on the bus.

With the tape as a plug in:

Console MixFX -> Tape plugin -> Other Inserts -> Bus (Console MixFX summing) -> Tape MixFX -> Master (Tape MixFX summing)

With the console as a plug in:

Tape MixFX (passthrough on) -> Console plugin -> Other inserts -> Bus -> Master (Tape MixFX summing)


EDIT: Nevermind - initially missed your comment above

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:33 am
by brettgoodkin
What is best practices for utilizing mixfx (including softube)?

The way I've been working lately is:

1. Make/track new tune, file name: Love Song - Tracking. Save
2. Save As: Love Song - Faders Up. Get basic balance... Render any virtual instruments and amp sims. Load up the mix plugins... Compressors, eq, time/space effects. Render all tracks/fx. Save
3. Save As: Love Song - Mix. This is where I'll create busses, sending drum elements to one or more drum busses, rhythm guitars to a buss, etc. This is the point I'll throw Softube Tape on the 2buss w/ Pass Through... Busses may or may not get CTC... It's in this stage that I may load up 2buss processing... Save

I say all of that to say this.... If I have a bunch of plugins loaded on various tracks and then throw CTC or Tape w/ Passthrough on busses or 2buss, I find that it instantly creates approximately 156 different and unpredictable gremlins... Some are unique to cross talk, especially since the implementation of the low/no latency tech... Like, I hear a ghost version of the lead vox playing a few milliseconds before the actual vox channel. So, I find that when all of the tracks are basically raw audio, the CTC, Tape behaves precisely as I would expect to without strange gremlins.

I guess -- and I'm happy to be corrected -- that using raw audio with MixFx, CTC, etc works the way I expect it to precisely because it's the closest approximation of mixing from, say, a 24 track tape machine to a 2 track final mix. I didn't have amp sims picking up and "rebroadcasting" crosstalk, for instance, in the olden days

Am I stupidly making this more complicated than need be? Anybody else doing a version of this sort of OCD wizardry?

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:47 am
by matthewgorman
Brett, the biggest change I made when starting to use Mix FX was in how unused tracks are handled. I mainly use it on the main from the start and mix into it. For unused tracks, I mute the event, where previously just muted the channel. Keeps the gremlins to a minimum. If I am understanding your statement correctly.

I see the Mix FX as similar to tracking in one room at a studio, then bringing the tape into another room to mix. Crosstalk and whatnot are happening at the very beginning of the chain. In the analog world, crosstalk was crosstalk, and couldn't be added when and where you wanted, so I treat it the same here. I don't want elements that are adding character throwing off the balance of the mix halfway through the process.

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:29 am
by brettgoodkin
I forgot to mention the step where I disable unused tracks and then remove them entirely...

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:34 am
by matthewgorman
brettgoodkin wroteI forgot to mention the step where I disable unused tracks and then remove them entirely...


Ah. I would maybe agree that your process seems to have more steps than I use, but I tend to work in simpler projects. Its hard to recommend different steps to someone without seeing how they work (for me anyway), but it seems that you have a handle on what needs to be done.

I too fall prey to the OCD monster.

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:38 am
by Bbd
matthewgorman wroteBrett, the biggest change I made when starting to use Mix FX was in how unused tracks are handled. I mainly use it on the main from the start and mix into it. For unused tracks, I mute the event, where previously just muted the channel. Keeps the gremlins to a minimum. If I am understanding your statement correctly.

I see the Mix FX as similar to tracking in one room at a studio, then bringing the tape into another room to mix. Crosstalk and whatnot are happening at the very beginning of the chain. In the analog world, crosstalk was crosstalk, and couldn't be added when and where you wanted, so I treat it the same here. I don't want elements that are adding character throwing off the balance of the mix halfway through the process.


I do what you do Matt. I am using Tape more than Console these days and I don't seem to have issues with plugin conflicts at this time.

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:48 am
by brettgoodkin
I'm really digging putting ctc on a buss and then tape on the 2 buss.

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:51 am
by jpettit
Bbd wrote
matthewgorman wroteBrett, the biggest change I made when starting to use Mix FX was in how unused tracks are handled. I mainly use it on the main from the start and mix into it. For unused tracks, I mute the event, where previously just muted the channel. Keeps the gremlins to a minimum. If I am understanding your statement correctly.

I see the Mix FX as similar to tracking in one room at a studio, then bringing the tape into another room to mix. Crosstalk and whatnot are happening at the very beginning of the chain. In the analog world, crosstalk was crosstalk, and couldn't be added when and where you wanted, so I treat it the same here. I don't want elements that are adding character throwing off the balance of the mix halfway through the process.


I do what you do Matt. I am using Tape more than Console these days and I don't seem to have issues with plugin conflicts at this time.

Just as long as you understand this behavior when you stack MFXs
Image

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:51 pm
by brettgoodkin
Looking at that graph gave be a little stroke. I confess I don't follow the obviously rich data within it!

So... I got 5 drum mics feeding a drum buss. That buss has ctc w/pass though. I have softube tape in the 2buss with pass through.

Does Tape just "see" the drum buss or all 5 drum mic channels plus the drum buss?

Re: Mix FX and Console Plugins Explained

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:52 pm
by jpettit
The green MXF is your 2buss.
Probably effect is a better word than “sees”.

The green MXF effects the output of the drum bus but not the inputs under the drum bus.

Even in pass through mode.

If you want to over drive the drum individual channels with the tape use it in plugin mode.