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Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:15 pm
by jpettit
Added matrix of bounce/render process vs, signal chain attributes in the OP

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:26 am
by Royarn
Very Useful post for a recent convert from Sonar. Many thanks Roy

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:26 pm
by georgeharth
Anyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:33 pm
by Larry the O
As it happens, without ever having seen this post, I happened to write my version of the same idea in my January 2018 Studio One column in Sound on Sound magazine. The link is here, though there is a paywall around the article:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/studio-one-bouncing-back

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:34 pm
by wonder6oy
georgeharth wroteAnyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.



There is something very odd going on with the combination of MixFX and channel Transformation and export. On my system, the "drive" value from the in-use MixFX engine does not get factored into the processing, and as a result, dynamic fx (like compressors, gates, etc) do not get hit at the right level and drum sample trigger plugs (like Trigger, Drumxchanger, etc) do not trigger properly. Basically, because I always use the MixFX console in a session, all automated insert rendering functions outside of Mixdown are useless to me. I did contact support about it, but no solution was found (see note below). They said they would pass it along to development, but that was months ago and I have seen no updates since.

Note: I did manage to find one "workaround" that allows me to use Transform with some degree of success. Prior to performing the Transform function, I can insert a Mixtool plug at the top of the channel's insert chain and add the additional gain needed by entering the same amount indicated by the "drive" value in the MixFX plug (at the top level of the bus connected to the affected channel), then add another Mixtool at the bottom of the insert chain subtracting that amount back out. Only then does Transform or Export Stems seem to render the insert processing correctly. It's messy though, especially if you need to do numerous tracks.

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:11 pm
by jpettit
georgeharth wroteAnyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.

With Mix-FX on main:

No, It is not included in the Bounce to a New Track.
No, it is not included in a Transform Instrument to Audio
No, it is not included in an Export Stems.
Yes, it is included in the Mixdown export.

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:03 pm
by Intergroove
Very good post!!

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:52 pm
by Anderton
Your concise explanations and handbooks are really, really helpful.

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:10 am
by vseanv
Just for the sake of keeping the dream alive. We really need PRE-FADER/PAN track transform so that mix level/pan adjustments are kept when reverting back to the un-transformed state. Currently when you transform a track or instrument, the audio is printed Post-fader/pan and the level and pan settings are reset to zero... so if you make any level or pan adjustments and then revert back to the un-transformed state, you lose those adjustments and have to make them again. Over many tracks this is a terrible time waster and virtually impossible to get the exact same level balance... IMO the current transform function is broken because of this and almost useless for anything but static transforms...

It's great to be able to edit "frozen" tracks, but losing the ability to adjust their level is not a worthy compromise. Most of the time I am transforming mix sessions with lots of plugins, say transforming the drums so that I can mix the guitars or something. But then, the snare is a little too loud... but nope, in order to do that, I have to un-transform the track and turn it down because the fader is at zero and if I want to un-transform the drums later to adjust the plugins, than I will lose that level adjustment. It just doesn't function properly. All other applications freeze Pre-Fader for this exact reason.

The good news is that if Presonus implemented Pre-Fader track freeze, it would be the ultimate option as it would allow you to make edits to the printed tracks themselves, but also let you make mix level/pan adjustments.

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:43 am
by ozinga
It is like you describe with midi transform. I wonder why not the same for the audio?



vseanv wroteJust for the sake of keeping the dream alive. We really need PRE-FADER/PAN track transform so that mix level/pan adjustments are kept when reverting back to the un-transformed state. Currently when you transform a track or instrument, the audio is printed Post-fader/pan and the level and pan settings are reset to zero... so if you make any level or pan adjustments and then revert back to the un-transformed state, you lose those adjustments and have to make them again. Over many tracks this is a terrible time waster and virtually impossible to get the exact same level balance... IMO the current transform function is broken because of this and almost useless for anything but static transforms...

It's great to be able to edit "frozen" tracks, but losing the ability to adjust their level is not a worthy compromise. Most of the time I am transforming mix sessions with lots of plugins, say transforming the drums so that I can mix the guitars or something. But then, the snare is a little too loud... but nope, in order to do that, I have to un-transform the track and turn it down because the fader is at zero and if I want to un-transform the drums later to adjust the plugins, than I will lose that level adjustment. It just doesn't function properly. All other applications freeze Pre-Fader for this exact reason.

The good news is that if Presonus implemented Pre-Fader track freeze, it would be the ultimate option as it would allow you to make edits to the printed tracks themselves, but also let you make mix level/pan adjustments.

Re: Merge,Bounce,Bounce to Track, Transform(s),Drag to Browser and Export Stems, Export Mixdown Explained

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:54 pm
by bailatosco
vseanv wroteJust for the sake of keeping the dream alive. We really need PRE-FADER/PAN track transform so that mix level/pan adjustments are kept when reverting back to the un-transformed state. Currently when you transform a track or instrument, the audio is printed Post-fader/pan and the level and pan settings are reset to zero... so if you make any level or pan adjustments and then revert back to the un-transformed state, you lose those adjustments and have to make them again. Over many tracks this is a terrible time waster and virtually impossible to get the exact same level balance... IMO the current transform function is broken because of this and almost useless for anything but static transforms...


THIS...

here is the FR: https://answers.presonus.com/18066/pre- ... orm-needed