PreSonus Forums

Added matrix of bounce/render process vs, signal chain attributes in the OP

Very Useful post for a recent convert from Sonar. Many thanks Roy

Anyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.

As it happens, without ever having seen this post, I happened to write my version of the same idea in my January 2018 Studio One column in Sound on Sound magazine. The link is here, though there is a paywall around the article:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/studio-one-bouncing-back

georgeharth wroteAnyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.

There is something very odd going on with the combination of MixFX and channel Transformation and export. On my system, the "drive" value from the in-use MixFX engine does not get factored into the processing, and as a result, dynamic fx (like compressors, gates, etc) do not get hit at the right level and drum sample trigger plugs (like Trigger, Drumxchanger, etc) do not trigger properly. Basically, because I always use the MixFX console in a session, all automated insert rendering functions outside of Mixdown are useless to me. I did contact support about it, but no solution was found (see note below). They said they would pass it along to development, but that was months ago and I have seen no updates since.

Note: I did manage to find one "workaround" that allows me to use Transform with some degree of success. Prior to performing the Transform function, I can insert a Mixtool plug at the top of the channel's insert chain and add the additional gain needed by entering the same amount indicated by the "drive" value in the MixFX plug (at the top level of the bus connected to the affected channel), then add another Mixtool at the bottom of the insert chain subtracting that amount back out. Only then does Transform or Export Stems seem to render the insert processing correctly. It's messy though, especially if you need to do numerous tracks.

georgeharth wroteAnyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.

With Mix-FX on main:

No, It is not included in the Bounce to a New Track.
No, it is not included in a Transform Instrument to Audio
No, it is not included in an Export Stems.
Yes, it is included in the Mixdown export.

Very good post!!

Your concise explanations and handbooks are really, really helpful.

Just for the sake of keeping the dream alive. We really need PRE-FADER/PAN track transform so that mix level/pan adjustments are kept when reverting back to the un-transformed state. Currently when you transform a track or instrument, the audio is printed Post-fader/pan and the level and pan settings are reset to zero... so if you make any level or pan adjustments and then revert back to the un-transformed state, you lose those adjustments and have to make them again. Over many tracks this is a terrible time waster and virtually impossible to get the exact same level balance... IMO the current transform function is broken because of this and almost useless for anything but static transforms...

It's great to be able to edit "frozen" tracks, but losing the ability to adjust their level is not a worthy compromise. Most of the time I am transforming mix sessions with lots of plugins, say transforming the drums so that I can mix the guitars or something. But then, the snare is a little too loud... but nope, in order to do that, I have to un-transform the track and turn it down because the fader is at zero and if I want to un-transform the drums later to adjust the plugins, than I will lose that level adjustment. It just doesn't function properly. All other applications freeze Pre-Fader for this exact reason.

The good news is that if Presonus implemented Pre-Fader track freeze, it would be the ultimate option as it would allow you to make edits to the printed tracks themselves, but also let you make mix level/pan adjustments.

It is like you describe with midi transform. I wonder why not the same for the audio?

vseanv wroteJust for the sake of keeping the dream alive. We really need PRE-FADER/PAN track transform so that mix level/pan adjustments are kept when reverting back to the un-transformed state. Currently when you transform a track or instrument, the audio is printed Post-fader/pan and the level and pan settings are reset to zero... so if you make any level or pan adjustments and then revert back to the un-transformed state, you lose those adjustments and have to make them again. Over many tracks this is a terrible time waster and virtually impossible to get the exact same level balance... IMO the current transform function is broken because of this and almost useless for anything but static transforms...

It's great to be able to edit "frozen" tracks, but losing the ability to adjust their level is not a worthy compromise. Most of the time I am transforming mix sessions with lots of plugins, say transforming the drums so that I can mix the guitars or something. But then, the snare is a little too loud... but nope, in order to do that, I have to un-transform the track and turn it down because the fader is at zero and if I want to un-transform the drums later to adjust the plugins, than I will lose that level adjustment. It just doesn't function properly. All other applications freeze Pre-Fader for this exact reason.

The good news is that if Presonus implemented Pre-Fader track freeze, it would be the ultimate option as it would allow you to make edits to the printed tracks themselves, but also let you make mix level/pan adjustments.

vseanv wroteJust for the sake of keeping the dream alive. We really need PRE-FADER/PAN track transform so that mix level/pan adjustments are kept when reverting back to the un-transformed state. Currently when you transform a track or instrument, the audio is printed Post-fader/pan and the level and pan settings are reset to zero... so if you make any level or pan adjustments and then revert back to the un-transformed state, you lose those adjustments and have to make them again. Over many tracks this is a terrible time waster and virtually impossible to get the exact same level balance... IMO the current transform function is broken because of this and almost useless for anything but static transforms...

THIS...

here is the FR: https://answers.presonus.com/18066/pre- ... orm-needed

"bounce selection" is not listed.

Does "bounce selection" apply:

Channel FX?
Master FX?
Melodyne?
Automation?
Anything?

Bounce Selection is basically Bounce Audio Event ( all or part of the event):

Great thread! Very helpful! Cheers

SO, just to clarify, if I use the standard bounce option, (Ctrl+B), it literally does nothing but cement automation/time/melodyne edits. None of the inserted FX get applied to the bounce?

timothyjaques wroteSO, just to clarify, if I use the standard bounce option, (Ctrl+B), it literally does nothing but cement automation/time/melodyne edits. None of the inserted FX get applied to the bounce?

Look at the table in the OP https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?p=219#p219
The row with Ctrl +B in it shows you an X by everything that gets included in a new file when you bounce.
Other commands write the Inserts to the file.

I noticed this bug.
CTC-1 on master, custom mode, drive knob near max
If I bounce a vsti (with a sine wave it is more obvious) and CTC-1 is off
=> bounced file include CTC-1 effect : not expected behavior (cecause effect is off !)
If I bounce the same CTC-1 plug in on but bypassed
=> bounced file does not include CTC-1 effect : expected behavior

Hey Guys, I'm a beginner here and could really use your help.
How do you export vocal stems with your chosen FX on? My vocal tracks have the FX (sends on) I can hear them when playing back the track but when I select the vocal piece to bounce, it bounces out without the FX. Any help would be so appreciated!

Would be nice for Bounce Selection on Instrument tracks to just render only the instrument, without effects and also make a copy of the inserts/sends on the new audio track. I've created a macro for that, but it's kinda limited. It turns of all effects on all tracks, cause there isn't an option to turn off inserts and sends on the selected track, renders the selected event, reactivates all inserts/sends, but it can't make a copy of the instrument channel Inserts and Sends.

even tho this is very clear I am still struggling with getting what I want to do which is
1. Audio track with fx on the channel
2. Generate a new file on a new track with fx applied
3. go back to original audio track, change effect settings
4. Apply new fx to get a new file on a new track with fx applied

At the moment I am getting a new track with FX but the old track is muted and the event is sort of greyed out I cant figure out how to unmute it so that I can keep generating new tracks with vcarious effects applied based on that first track