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Added matrix of bounce/render process vs, signal chain attributes in the OP

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by Royarn on Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:26 am
Very Useful post for a recent convert from Sonar. Many thanks Roy

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by georgeharth on Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:26 pm
Anyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.
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by Larry the O on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:33 pm
As it happens, without ever having seen this post, I happened to write my version of the same idea in my January 2018 Studio One column in Sound on Sound magazine. The link is here, though there is a paywall around the article:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/studio-one-bouncing-back
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by wonder6oy on Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:34 pm
georgeharth wroteAnyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.



There is something very odd going on with the combination of MixFX and channel Transformation and export. On my system, the "drive" value from the in-use MixFX engine does not get factored into the processing, and as a result, dynamic fx (like compressors, gates, etc) do not get hit at the right level and drum sample trigger plugs (like Trigger, Drumxchanger, etc) do not trigger properly. Basically, because I always use the MixFX console in a session, all automated insert rendering functions outside of Mixdown are useless to me. I did contact support about it, but no solution was found (see note below). They said they would pass it along to development, but that was months ago and I have seen no updates since.

Note: I did manage to find one "workaround" that allows me to use Transform with some degree of success. Prior to performing the Transform function, I can insert a Mixtool plug at the top of the channel's insert chain and add the additional gain needed by entering the same amount indicated by the "drive" value in the MixFX plug (at the top level of the bus connected to the affected channel), then add another Mixtool at the bottom of the insert chain subtracting that amount back out. Only then does Transform or Export Stems seem to render the insert processing correctly. It's messy though, especially if you need to do numerous tracks.
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by jpettit on Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:11 pm
georgeharth wroteAnyone know if Mix FX ignored or included in bounce to new track and/or transform? I would kind of a assume they are ignored in the output wave file in those cases, but I haven't seen it mentioned one way or another.

With Mix-FX on main:

No, It is not included in the Bounce to a New Track.
No, it is not included in a Transform Instrument to Audio
No, it is not included in an Export Stems.
Yes, it is included in the Mixdown export.

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by Intergroove on Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:03 pm
Very good post!!
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by Anderton on Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:52 pm
Your concise explanations and handbooks are really, really helpful.
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by vseanv on Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:10 am
Just for the sake of keeping the dream alive. We really need PRE-FADER/PAN track transform so that mix level/pan adjustments are kept when reverting back to the un-transformed state. Currently when you transform a track or instrument, the audio is printed Post-fader/pan and the level and pan settings are reset to zero... so if you make any level or pan adjustments and then revert back to the un-transformed state, you lose those adjustments and have to make them again. Over many tracks this is a terrible time waster and virtually impossible to get the exact same level balance... IMO the current transform function is broken because of this and almost useless for anything but static transforms...

It's great to be able to edit "frozen" tracks, but losing the ability to adjust their level is not a worthy compromise. Most of the time I am transforming mix sessions with lots of plugins, say transforming the drums so that I can mix the guitars or something. But then, the snare is a little too loud... but nope, in order to do that, I have to un-transform the track and turn it down because the fader is at zero and if I want to un-transform the drums later to adjust the plugins, than I will lose that level adjustment. It just doesn't function properly. All other applications freeze Pre-Fader for this exact reason.

The good news is that if Presonus implemented Pre-Fader track freeze, it would be the ultimate option as it would allow you to make edits to the printed tracks themselves, but also let you make mix level/pan adjustments.
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by ozinga on Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:43 am
It is like you describe with midi transform. I wonder why not the same for the audio?



vseanv wroteJust for the sake of keeping the dream alive. We really need PRE-FADER/PAN track transform so that mix level/pan adjustments are kept when reverting back to the un-transformed state. Currently when you transform a track or instrument, the audio is printed Post-fader/pan and the level and pan settings are reset to zero... so if you make any level or pan adjustments and then revert back to the un-transformed state, you lose those adjustments and have to make them again. Over many tracks this is a terrible time waster and virtually impossible to get the exact same level balance... IMO the current transform function is broken because of this and almost useless for anything but static transforms...

It's great to be able to edit "frozen" tracks, but losing the ability to adjust their level is not a worthy compromise. Most of the time I am transforming mix sessions with lots of plugins, say transforming the drums so that I can mix the guitars or something. But then, the snare is a little too loud... but nope, in order to do that, I have to un-transform the track and turn it down because the fader is at zero and if I want to un-transform the drums later to adjust the plugins, than I will lose that level adjustment. It just doesn't function properly. All other applications freeze Pre-Fader for this exact reason.

The good news is that if Presonus implemented Pre-Fader track freeze, it would be the ultimate option as it would allow you to make edits to the printed tracks themselves, but also let you make mix level/pan adjustments.

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