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I've followed a lot of the information from Jpettit, on syncing and timing tempo for Studio One. I also understand his excitement (as we all do) on Melodyne 4.

Melodyne Editor, is largely the single most important tool for me, not in any form of cheating as some (not here) have suggested, but that I have been able to adjust a take to allow for the magic that the take embodied, and complete the idea. Think of Melodyne as the "water" used in perfecting the smoothness of a clay sculpture.

Use it to construct, edit, modify, or explore because it is indeed an amazing tool.
Melodyne 4, simply continues the tradition.
Studio One simply drops it into your lap, for ease of use (ARA accessibility).
A beautiful marriage.

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by Bbd on Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:37 am
Lokeyfly wroteUse it to construct, edit, modify, or explore because it is indeed an amazing tool.
Melodyne 4, simply continues the tradition.
Studio One simply drops it into your lap, for ease of use (ARA accessibility).
A beautiful marriage.


:thumbup:

I am very pleased that Studio 4 is very low on system resources. I had one region for a an entire lead vocal track and one for entire acoustic guitar track and there was not a lot of usage.
It worked flawlessly with S1.
Last edited by Bbd on Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bbd

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by jpettit on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:33 am
I will work on a written set of procedures to post publicly here this weekend. It is much quicker than it take me to do the videos.

This will give all you who are trying the tempo mapping for the first time something to refer to so you don't get stuck.

In the meantime all the very basic are here:
No step by step but worth reading at some point:
http://helpcenter.celemony.com/hc-2/
Then click tempo Editing on the right.

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by Lokeyfly on Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:00 pm
I like this Melodyne thread better! :)

Seriously, the "Sound Editor" control of Melodyne 4, is drop dead fantastic. Not that some of the concepts can't be done in other ways, but that within the structure of Melodyne there is so much control now over envelopes, EQ, filtering, transient shaping, etc. This is powerful stuff.

I have some recent acoustic tracks that I could not remove the mic noise in the background, and I suspect Melodyne 4 will be quite useful on that front alone.

Powerful product. smart price.

New in Melodyne 4: The Sound Editor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol0OZ3xzsjs

Kudos, Celemony!

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by Bbd on Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:38 pm
Agreed Lokefly!
I pulled in a old 70's song I produced and MS4 (Melodyne Studio 4) figured out the tempo map in seconds. I dragged the tempo map file over S1's tempo track and it was done.
I could see how consistant I (as the drummer back then) played back then. I did better than I thought!
I then brought in some loops, percussion, etc. to play around with embellishments. All good.

The fact that we can now see multiple tracks of Melodyne on the same screen is awesome. It is designed so well! I can easily match or line up any blobs to any other blobs. I love it!

Also, Melodyne does completely remove itself if you choose. There are no left over memory issues now.

The integration with S1 is really solid. I am really blown away and haven't even touched the other features yet!

Bbd

Operating System: Windows 10 x64 (14393.10), Studio One Pro 3.5 Win 10 64, Sonar Plat Win 10 64, Steinberg Cubasis, Notion 6, Steinberg UR44, Purrrfect Audio Pro Studio DAW (Case: Silent Mid Tower, Power-Supply: 600w quiet, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz (8 threads), RAM: 16GB DDR3/1600, OS drive: Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB Internal SSD SATA 6Gb/s 2.5" MZ-75E250, Audio drive: 1TB HD, Equator D5 monitors, Faderport, Faderport 8, Akai MPK261, Roland T6, ATH-M50, AKG240, 70's Custom Fender Strat, Ibanez Micro Bass, Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500MCE
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by oldblood on Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:43 pm
Bbd wroteAlso, Melodyne does completely remove itself if you choose. There are no left over memory issues now.


Yes it certainly does, that was one of my pet hates with the prior version, so much so I used it less for that reason. On the whole it seems reasonably stable, especially after the recent update, however I did manage to lock up the whole system by pressing to many buttons to quickly :oops: :roll:

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by jpettit on Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:46 pm
Here is a PDF Melodyne 4-Studio One Tempo Mapping Procedures document that you can print to learn the basics.
This should help people until I get time to do some more videos.

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by Funkybot on Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:33 pm
jpettit wroteHere is a PDF Melodyne 4-Studio One Tempo Mapping Procedures document that you can print to learn the basics.
This should help people until I get time to do some more videos.


jpetit, I'm not sure what you do for a living, but the folks at Celemony need someone like you quite badly. Their website, shopping cart, documentation, and even the way they implement features in the GUI of Melodyne are all terrible. Your PDF is exactly the kind of documentation they should be putting up on their website (concise, clear, easy to follow). This would have saved me a lot of head scratching this morning as I was trying to figure out how to tempo map a particularly problematic track (in the end I got it). I went to the Celemony website, but the guides there were nowhere near as clear as this. Thanks!
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by Bbd on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:07 pm
Thank you so much Jeff for the PDF! Great job on this and very timely!
:thumbup:

Bbd

Operating System: Windows 10 x64 (14393.10), Studio One Pro 3.5 Win 10 64, Sonar Plat Win 10 64, Steinberg Cubasis, Notion 6, Steinberg UR44, Purrrfect Audio Pro Studio DAW (Case: Silent Mid Tower, Power-Supply: 600w quiet, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz (8 threads), RAM: 16GB DDR3/1600, OS drive: Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB Internal SSD SATA 6Gb/s 2.5" MZ-75E250, Audio drive: 1TB HD, Equator D5 monitors, Faderport, Faderport 8, Akai MPK261, Roland T6, ATH-M50, AKG240, 70's Custom Fender Strat, Ibanez Micro Bass, Epiphone Masterbilt DR-500MCE
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by jpettit on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:14 pm
Thanks
I did try to work with them on documentation.
The trouble is it goes from English to German to an interpreter to write an English version or something like that so we all express ourselves differently .
They tends to be more theory and often much more eloquent than I could ever write, but often lacks the good old Microsoft help 1) Click this 2) Enter that approach.
They do have IMHO some of the best video training in the industry.

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by dgkenney on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:43 pm
Thanks for the PDF. Very helpful.

Here's one I haven't figured out yet. Perhaps if you have the inclination and the time you can give it a look.

If for some reason I want to use the stand alone to tempo map either a prerecorded song or want to record some tracks into Melodyne as a "DAW" and then tempo map, I see how to "save" a tempo map as a midi-like file in Melodyne, but I have not found a successful way to bring this into a new project in Studio One. Drag'n'drop from both the desktop as well as the S1 browser does not seem to work and is subject to the length-triggers-new-song issue. Any thoughts on this? Can it be done or are we restricted to the ARA implementation Studio One?

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by jpettit on Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:59 pm
dgkenney wroteThanks for the PDF. Very helpful.

Here's one I haven't figured out yet. Perhaps if you have the inclination and the time you can give it a look.

If for some reason I want to use the stand alone to tempo map either a prerecorded song or want to record some tracks into Melodyne as a "DAW" and then tempo map, I see how to "save" a tempo map as a midi-like file in Melodyne, but I have not found a successful way to bring this into a new project in Studio One. Drag'n'drop from both the desktop as well as the S1 browser does not seem to work and is subject to the length-triggers-new-song issue. Any thoughts on this? Can it be done or are we restricted to the ARA implementation Studio One?

Well yes the restriction on the ARA version is no import tempo.
That MIDI length thing is a bit strange. ( don't care for it)
I will talk to the developer about changing that logic ( because of this scenario), but it might be sometime before you see a solution.

If it does open a new song can you see the tempo map?
If so you could transfer the audio file from Melodyne stand alone to the new song and build from there. But is would be one shot deal.
If not I recommended working it all from within S1.

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by oldblood on Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:01 am
Thank you for the PDF, as always nicely done..

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by psusername on Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:27 am
jpettit wrote
Funkybot wroteThis is definitely a case of RTFM, but can anyone tell me if there's a quick and easy way to set the bar and beat in Melodyne and have that transient line up and if so, how?

Don't quite know what you are referred to with transient. In Melodyne it would be a blob you are aligning to.

Are you asking how to set beat one in S1 or how to set beat one in M4?

If M4 you drag the tempo bar to the beat representing the first sound.
It will by default move in quarter note steps. (The whole ruler will move left or right).
If it lines up then you are set.

If it does not ( which is common) Then:
b. If it will not snap to the correct downbeat position use this procedure to fine tune it:
i. Click the segment BPM drop down and select "enter subdivision"
ii. Type 16 subdivisions and slide the tempo first down beat line over to align with the first downbeat.
iii. (Optionally) return the subdivision number back to its original value
Now the beat one marker will move in 1/16th steps.
Match it up with the first real beat one measure in the blobs.


This is the first time I have tried this and I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly, but it seemed to work (I did get it to repeat). I am also using Melodyne studio as a plugin vs stand alone as suggested in some of their videos. To do the tempo mapping, I followed your steps and found that I needed to set the track in Studio One to "Follow." If I didn't do that, the timing (tempo mapping) of the track would change to a faster tempo. Once I set the track to follow, when I clicked back from the tempo map screen (by clicking the edit icon to the left of the wrench tool) I could click and drag the temp map from the track area in Studio One up into the tempo map area and the track was now mapped within Studio One.

I need to try the temp mapping as stand alone as they suggest in the videos (I was mapping to a stereo mixdown track) since that would incorporate the timing of all the tracks and be more accurate. Overall I find the tool amazing coming from those days of fighting with a TEAC 3304 :D

gs
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by Funkybot on Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:00 pm
So far, I've had very positive experiences with tempo mapping, but it's had the side effect of reminding me just how limited the current Tempo Track functionality in S1 really is without Melodyne.

Background: to learn the tempo mapping features of Melodyne, I've been practicing on classic rock tracks from the 60's. Here's Led Zeppelin's "When The Levee Breaks:"

Image

In my old DAW, once I had a song ready to be recorded I'd:

1. Write the basic drum part (maybe not all the fills and embellishments, but basic kick, snare, hat pattern for each section).
2. I'd go into the Tempo View
3. Vertically zoom in real tight
4. Use the freehand pencil tool to draw in subtle tempo variations (not unlike what you see above)
5. Once I was happy with the feel of the drums, I'd record the [audio tracks] bass, guitars, etc.

I've never been able to replicate this workflow in Studio One due to the way the current Tempo Track functionality works. There's no ability draw free hand, there's no ability to zoom, and even if I use the workaround to use 64th note resolution and ramp the tempo up and down, I'd have to do this countless times over the course of a song.

So my question is: without Melodyne, or without starting with an audio track, is there really any good way to replicate human tempos in Studio One right now?
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by jpettit on Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:59 pm
Funkybot wroteSo far, I've had very positive experiences with tempo mapping, but it's had the side effect of reminding me just how limited the current Tempo Track functionality in S1 really is without Melodyne.

Background: to learn the tempo mapping features of Melodyne, I've been practicing on classic rock tracks from the 60's. Here's Led Zeppelin's "When The Levee Breaks:"

Image

In my old DAW, once I had a song ready to be recorded I'd:

1. Write the basic drum part (maybe not all the fills and embellishments, but basic kick, snare, hat pattern for each section).
2. I'd go into the Tempo View
3. Vertically zoom in real tight
4. Use the freehand pencil tool to draw in subtle tempo variations (not unlike what you see above)
5. Once I was happy with the feel of the drums, I'd record the [audio tracks] bass, guitars, etc.

I've never been able to replicate this workflow in Studio One due to the way the current Tempo Track functionality works. There's no ability draw free hand, there's no ability to zoom, and even if I use the workaround to use 64th note resolution and ramp the tempo up and down, I'd have to do this countless times over the course of a song.

So my question is: without Melodyne, or without starting with an audio track, is there really any good way to replicate human tempos in Studio One right now?
Good point. You can't very easy. Thus the FR for freehand tempo drawing. In the past the bar vs. line look did not bother me much but now I would say there is 3 FR's related to the tempo track now:

1) Data Zoom so you can zoom to see minor tempo changes (Like the peaks and valleys shown).
2) Change from bar to line to represent the tempo. With this new process the tempo map look excessively busy.
3) Free form line draw to simulate tempo mapping if you will.

You were are the verge of talking about a few things I will cover eventually but the all require Melodyne 4E/S.

1) Record a tap tempo track (conductor) with a drum Instrument. Tap with exaggerated feeling/swing/. :punk: Transform the click track and tempo map it.
This becomes a quick nature feel map for a rigid song.
2) I have not covered it so far but in Free Form mode within the Tempo Editor you can create some pretty drastic fluctuation in tempo to apply to your otherwise rigid song as again as a conductor track.

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by jpettit on Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:09 pm
psusername wroteI followed your steps and found that I needed to set the track in Studio One to "Follow." If I didn't do that, the timing (tempo mapping) of the track would change to a faster tempo.

I need to try the temp mapping as stand alone as they suggest in the videos (I was mapping to a stereo mixdown track)

Not sure what video you are referring to, but you can do everything in the plugin.
Dragging in a full stereo mix of the song ( or bounce the mix to the song) as a track works very well as the tempo track reference. try it.
Have you download my PDF and tried it step by step?

"would change to a faster tempo":
either you my have not noticed your tempo segment(s) were 2x in M4 tempo map or you did not drag the map to Studio One?
As mentioned in my PDF at the end. If you do a good job of the map you will not hear or see a change when going from "Dont follow" to "Timestretch" as they will yield the same results.

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by scottmoncrieff on Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:14 pm
Funkybot wroteSo far, I've had very positive experiences with tempo mapping, but it's had the side effect of reminding me just how limited the current Tempo Track functionality in S1 really is without Melodyne.

Background: to learn the tempo mapping features of Melodyne, I've been practicing on classic rock tracks from the 60's. Here's Led Zeppelin's "When The Levee Breaks:"

Image

In my old DAW, once I had a song ready to be recorded I'd:

1. Write the basic drum part (maybe not all the fills and embellishments, but basic kick, snare, hat pattern for each section).
2. I'd go into the Tempo View
3. Vertically zoom in real tight
4. Use the freehand pencil tool to draw in subtle tempo variations (not unlike what you see above)
5. Once I was happy with the feel of the drums, I'd record the [audio tracks] bass, guitars, etc.

I've never been able to replicate this workflow in Studio One due to the way the current Tempo Track functionality works. There's no ability draw free hand, there's no ability to zoom, and even if I use the workaround to use 64th note resolution and ramp the tempo up and down, I'd have to do this countless times over the course of a song.

So my question is: without Melodyne, or without starting with an audio track, is there really any good way to replicate human tempos in Studio One right now?



Yes, there is, you can select the line tools... open the tempo track, hold Alt and draw where you want. See image below. In fact there is no reason why you couldnt do the tempo editing stuff in scratch pad if you prefer.

For samples you can also right click on them when they are on the sequencer lane and alter the speed with the Speedup parameter field.

Image

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by Funkybot on Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:49 pm
Scott, that approach works very well for ramping the tempo up or down. However, where that method falls short is in making very subtle up and down changes within lets say +/- 2 bpm.

Here's that same example in Studio One:
Image
The lack of vertical zoom makes it difficult to see the hundreds (if not thousands) of gradual tempo changes. This would be very difficult, if not impossible, to draw in S1 without a freehand tool and vertical zoom.

For comparison, that same tempo map in Melodyne again:
Image
Notice, that due to the vertical zoom level, the tempo changes are clearly visible. The curves also make it all look very smooth and logical visually (versus the blocks of the current tempo track).

As jpettit points out, there's three things that would be needed to really properly facilitate tempo maps like this:

1) Data Zoom so you can zoom to see minor tempo changes (Like the peaks and valleys shown).
2) Change from bar to line to represent the tempo. With this new process the tempo map look excessively busy.
3) Free form line draw to simulate tempo mapping if you will.
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by David Mood on Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:26 pm
jpettit wroteTo enable tempo editing you have to click the wrench.(note assignment mode)


Thanks Jeff.
In the video by Celemony they say you need to be in Edit mode, that's why I missed that.
Maybe the standalone version (which they are using in the video) works a bit different in that respect.

Sorry for the stupid question: doesn't drawing in tempo changes by hand kinda miss the whole point about this tempo mapping feature?
Isn't this all about aligning the tempo in the DAW to a tempo of a performance?

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