|
So, is that common knowledge and just the way it is??
A little history on the topic; What brought me to all of this is that I was mastering in Studio One and having a difficult time. Things didn't sound like what I mixed, but sounded harsher. After spending an embarrassing amount of time in Studio One, I decided to throw it in Pro Tools just to tinker. (Let it be known, this same project got moved from Studio One to Pro Tools because I can edit faster in PT, and to my surprise, Pro Tools just sounded better. Even matching plugins on tracks to a tenth of a dB, Pro Tools just sounded better. Bring on the flak.) So, I mastered in Pro Tools with the same plugins, and all of a sudden, within minutes. it sounded like my mix, but refined. Needless to say, I wound up mastering the project in Pro Tools. Can't tell you why it sounded different; it just did. I'll get a lot of flak for this for sure, but the project got done, and in Pro Tools. Faster forward to now, because of TWO different experiences like this, I wanted to know why things didn't sound good to me in Studio One. So, I did a mastering session in Pro Tools, and one in Studio One. I used the same plugins with identical settings. Both had the exact same file. In Pro Tools, I did offline bounce. In Studio One, I did offline bounce. When I put them back into a session, upon doing a null test, they do NOT null out; there's actually a lot of information that does NOT null out. Now, I did a Real Time render in Studio One, and compared that to the Offline Render of Studio One, and they do NOT Null out. However, I did a second Offline Render in Studio One and compared it to the original Offline Render of Studio One, and they null out perfectly! Check. Now, when I compare the Real Time Render of Studio One to the Offline bounce in Pro Tools, they null perfectly! So, what's the scoop, Studio One??
DAW's:
Studio One Professional 6.5.2 Pro Tools Studio 2023.12.1 Computer: Mac Pro (Late 2013) 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 OWC Aura Pro X2 1 TB AMD FirePro D300 2 GB Mac OS 12.7.3 Monterey Interface: Audient EVO 16 w/ two Audient SP8's Monitor: LG 32' LCD connected via HDMI Samsung 27" LCD connected via HDMI to Thunderbolt adapter |
|
You did not mention which plug-ins you are using. Some produce different results depending on whether playback (real-time rendering) or offline rendering is used.
Lukas Ruschitzka
Studio One Specialist Studio One Tutorials || Studio One Scripts & Add-ons || Studio One Tutorial Database || Studio One Toolbox [ s1toolbox.com ] Core i7 3.24 GHz, Windows 10, 24 GB RAM, RME HDSP 9632, PreSonus FaderPort, PreSonus Monitorstation, PreSonus Eris 5 Clavia Nord Stage 3 - Moog Sub 37 - YAMAHA MoXF6 - M-Audio Axiom Pro 61 - Kawai ES-920 - Studio One 5 - Notion 6 - Orchestral Tools Junkie XL Horns, ProjectSAM Symphobia, Cinematic Studio Series, Strezov Sampling Afflatus, VSL Synchron Special Edition, KOMPLETE 9 Ultimate |
|
Were Pro Tools and Studio One both using the same pan law? Also, were they both using the same audio engine resolution?
Digital storefront: craiganderton.com
Free educational site: craiganderton.org Music: youtube.com/thecraiganderton Studio One eBooks: shop.presonus.com |
|
Also - if sample rate conversion is being used, there's a difference in quality between Pro Tools and Studio One. Check out the comparisons for various DAWs at https://src.infinitewave.ca/. Studio One fares very well.
Digital storefront: craiganderton.com
Free educational site: craiganderton.org Music: youtube.com/thecraiganderton Studio One eBooks: shop.presonus.com |
mikesupina wroteNow, when I compare the Real Time Render of Studio One to the Offline bounce in Pro Tools, they null perfectly! I've always wondered whether I should take the time with Realtime bounce. This made my decision easier! Thanks |
Anderton wroteWere Pro Tools and Studio One both using the same pan law? Also, were they both using the same audio engine resolution? Anderton wroteAlso - if sample rate conversion is being used, there's a difference in quality between Pro Tools and Studio One. Check out the comparisons for various DAWs at https://src.infinitewave.ca/. Studio One fares very well. He's saying an offline render of studio one does not null out a real-time render of studio one. He's also saying a real time render of studio one nulls out an offline render of pro tools. So I don't think this is a factor (unless the settings change between realtime and offline renders) as one of these scenarios nulls out OK.
Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb. Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental). Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths. |
|
I didn't think any DAW could match S1 when it comes to the pan law. Doesn't S1 use different pan laws for mono and stereo?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OS: Windows 10 Pro Build 19045. Computer: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core Processor 3.60 GHz, 32 GB RAM, B450 Tomahawk Max II Mobo. PreSonus Studio 1824c Interface. DAWs:Presonus Studio One 6.6. Cubase 13. Ableton Live 12, Bitwig 5.2, FL Studio 21.2, Reason 12. Buying since 1998: 27 Hardware Instruments, 70+ Hardware Effects/Pedals, Currently installed: 129 Instrument Plugins, 889 Effect Plugins. |
|
Thanks everyone for the replies!
The plugins I'm using in this order are: Ozone Dynamic Eq DMG Equilibrium SIR Standard Clip DMG Limitless TDR Limiter 6 All plugins are matched exactly with all parameters. There should be no issue with pan law because it's one master file mix down that I'm comparing. Both sessions are using a 32bit 48k mix down file, and the Pro Tools session is set to 32bit 48k. Studio One is set to 48k, however I could not find an option to set to 32bit for the project (Master and Release) section of S1, but when checking the audio setup, it says the "Process Precision" is (Single 32bit), so I assume it just takes on whatever the file is, unless I'm missing something? But I'm still not sure why you can choose the bit depth in "Record and Mix" but not in "Master and Release"? But it still does not explain why an offline bounce and a real time bounce of the same file in S1 do not null, but the real time bounce of S1 and Offline bounce of PT DO null. What is happening under the hood with S1??
DAW's:
Studio One Professional 6.5.2 Pro Tools Studio 2023.12.1 Computer: Mac Pro (Late 2013) 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 OWC Aura Pro X2 1 TB AMD FirePro D300 2 GB Mac OS 12.7.3 Monterey Interface: Audient EVO 16 w/ two Audient SP8's Monitor: LG 32' LCD connected via HDMI Samsung 27" LCD connected via HDMI to Thunderbolt adapter |
|
Are the buffer sizes set the same in both programs?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OS: Windows 10 Pro Build 19045. Computer: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core Processor 3.60 GHz, 32 GB RAM, B450 Tomahawk Max II Mobo. PreSonus Studio 1824c Interface. DAWs:Presonus Studio One 6.6. Cubase 13. Ableton Live 12, Bitwig 5.2, FL Studio 21.2, Reason 12. Buying since 1998: 27 Hardware Instruments, 70+ Hardware Effects/Pedals, Currently installed: 129 Instrument Plugins, 889 Effect Plugins. |
|
If you can find the video to "Audio Myths" from the 2009 AES convention you'd save yourself a ton of unnecessary grief.
The short story of that panel discussion and its demonstrations was "If you can't hear it, it doesn't matter."
Studio One Technical Support | QA
------------------------------------------------ Issue Reporting Version 4.3.0 Studio One Add-Ons ------------------------------------------------ Kontakt 6 | MOTU Mach 5 | Spitfire BBCSO Core & Albion One | Cinematic Studio Solo Strings | Vienna Synchron Prime | Cinesamples Musio | NI Session Horns Pro | Toontrack EZ Drummer, EZ Bass,& EZ Keys | Relab LX480 Complete | Soundtoys Little Plate & Echoboy |
mikesupina wroteNow, when I compare the Real Time Render of Studio One to the Offline bounce in Pro Tools, they null perfectly! This here is the smoking gun.. I'm not sure that people are getting this point. I find this quite a surprising result but it does make sense. If this actually happens I would expect Studio One to null itself out in all scenarios, both projects would be clearly set up identically (no chance of pan laws etc getting in the way). There is no chance of this happening randomly.
Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb. Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental). Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths. |
|
@mikesupina
Can you try this again, then with the resulting files edit out the first four seconds of the wav file and the last four seconds and see if they null. Check to see if the waveforms line up perfectly. Maybe something is being introduced at the beginning or end, or there is a tiny gap being introduced with offline rendering with studio one. Do you have a screenshot of the differences maybe?
Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb. Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental). Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths. |
PreAl wrotemikesupina wroteNow, when I compare the Real Time Render of Studio One to the Offline bounce in Pro Tools, they null perfectly! It definitely happens  I don't know how, but S1 Real Time Bounce vs Pro Tools OFfline bounce both null.
DAW's:
Studio One Professional 6.5.2 Pro Tools Studio 2023.12.1 Computer: Mac Pro (Late 2013) 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 OWC Aura Pro X2 1 TB AMD FirePro D300 2 GB Mac OS 12.7.3 Monterey Interface: Audient EVO 16 w/ two Audient SP8's Monitor: LG 32' LCD connected via HDMI Samsung 27" LCD connected via HDMI to Thunderbolt adapter |
PreAl wrote@mikesupina I don't know that any of it makes a difference because I zoomed in on both files to a sample level to match the peaks. They are both the same length file too.
DAW's:
Studio One Professional 6.5.2 Pro Tools Studio 2023.12.1 Computer: Mac Pro (Late 2013) 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 OWC Aura Pro X2 1 TB AMD FirePro D300 2 GB Mac OS 12.7.3 Monterey Interface: Audient EVO 16 w/ two Audient SP8's Monitor: LG 32' LCD connected via HDMI Samsung 27" LCD connected via HDMI to Thunderbolt adapter |
lawrencefarr wroteIf you can find the video to "Audio Myths" from the 2009 AES convention you'd save yourself a ton of unnecessary grief. So, the whole reason I looked into all of this is because I was initially struggling with S1 while trying to master some mixes. Everything sounded more fatiguing and I couldn't figure out why. I threw it into Pro Tools and then all of a sudden it sounded like my mix, but more refined with the processing; smoother; easier to listen to. The project got mastered in Pro Tools because of this. Oddly enough, the same project which I was tracking and working on in S1 got transferred to Pro Tools; initially just because I edit faster in Pro Tools and it has better options, but upon hearing the session in Pro Tools, I cannot tell you why, but it just sounded better. That's what led me down this rabbit hole, because that's 2 for 2, and now the nulling/lack thereof is raising more questions, so that's why I'm wondering what the scoop is and what is actually happening under the hood with S1, because I thought every Daw was just 1's and 0's.
DAW's:
Studio One Professional 6.5.2 Pro Tools Studio 2023.12.1 Computer: Mac Pro (Late 2013) 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 OWC Aura Pro X2 1 TB AMD FirePro D300 2 GB Mac OS 12.7.3 Monterey Interface: Audient EVO 16 w/ two Audient SP8's Monitor: LG 32' LCD connected via HDMI Samsung 27" LCD connected via HDMI to Thunderbolt adapter |
PreAl wroteAnderton wroteWere Pro Tools and Studio One both using the same pan law? I thought perhaps it related to his mentioning that he did the mix in both Studio One and Pro Tools, and the pan laws might be different. Aside from that, I'm real curious to find out what's behind the real time render of Studio One not nulling out with an offline render of Studio One, but nulling with an offline render of Pro Tools.
Digital storefront: craiganderton.com
Free educational site: craiganderton.org Music: youtube.com/thecraiganderton Studio One eBooks: shop.presonus.com |
Anderton wrotePreAl wroteAnderton wroteWere Pro Tools and Studio One both using the same pan law? Yea, it's mega weird! And once again, it's only a single stereo file for mastering, not a full mix with multiple tracks, but just one mix down
DAW's:
Studio One Professional 6.5.2 Pro Tools Studio 2023.12.1 Computer: Mac Pro (Late 2013) 3 GHz 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 32 GB 1866 MHz DDR3 OWC Aura Pro X2 1 TB AMD FirePro D300 2 GB Mac OS 12.7.3 Monterey Interface: Audient EVO 16 w/ two Audient SP8's Monitor: LG 32' LCD connected via HDMI Samsung 27" LCD connected via HDMI to Thunderbolt adapter |
|
Silly question but for the sake of completion does PT and S1 real time bounce null itself out, because if it doesn't that would add to the weird.
Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb. Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental). Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths. |
|
The least little thing could disrupt nulling, so my guess is if several of us were to proof out the same audio & effects, same literal "test.song" file, and same settings, then all bets are off. It seems to be an effects device, but let's see. Too little to go on, me thinks.
S1-6.6, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.
New song "Our Time" https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq Visit my You Tube Channel https://youtube.com/@jamesconraadtucker ... PA5dM01GF7 Latest song releases on Bandcamp - Latest albums on iTunes All works registered copyright ©️ |
Lokeyfly wroteThe least little thing could disrupt nulling, so my guess is if several of us were to proof out the same audio & effects, same literal "test.song" file, and same settings, then all bets are off. It seems to be an effects device, but let's see. Too little to go on, me thinks. Well as I keep repeating, I can't see how that scenario can possibly exist, when he got the Real Time render of Studio One to null out an offline bounce in Pro Tools. He also said "And once again, it's only a single stereo file for mastering, not a full mix with multiple tracks, but just one mix down".
Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb. Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental). Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths. |
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests