jackdey wrote I think this post exactly sums up where Presonus have embarked over the last 12 months. Previously, Presonus rode a wave of positivity marked by user friendly decisions, whereas now we are at "if you don't like it leave" and "users need to figure out themselves what's in and out".

The only thing I am getting out of this post is the FUD some people have - when not much has changed - at all.

Before this new Hybrid offering - Studio One + subscribers got zilch after their clock ran out. Now they get a free lifelong license? How is that a bad thing?

jackdey wroteI have personally invested thousands of pounds in Presonus hardware and software over the last 6 to 7 years, l'm not the typical complainer or online poster, but this new strategy leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

This strategy is not "new" at all. In 2020 - it was "Sphere" then changed names "Studio One + and now is called Studio One Hybrid - regardless of it's handle - it has been a thing for 4+ years now.

And if you are an existing perpetual licensed user like me - exactly nothing has changed for us - period. Same updates. Same discounted upgrade pricing. Same everything. Except that new instrument - which is not a concern in any way if you have even the simplest third party synth on hand.

Not sure what the concern is really - Hybrid is just another option (100% better than it was before) to get into Studio One.

VP

There has been a lot of explaining going on by Presonus employees in the last few weeks.

It does prove that they took on board user suggestions from eMeetups and other forums about Sphere and non Sphere users, and have done a good and clever thing with Hybrid.

But they really dropped the ball on clarity of what it meant for non Sphere/+ licence users - and therefore caused confusion and some over-reactions - especially as there was suspicion about the motives for the change and the new synth not being provided to licence holders. Conspiracy theories and Fender involvement etc.

Now they are at pains to provide clarity of what it all means - which is not a bad thing.

Personally there is no need for me to change anything until the next paid upgrade - and then I can decide whether to go Hybrid or just do the equivalent of the Pro to Pro upgrade.

I suspect many of us will :

1. See what the price difference is, and maybe plump for Hybrid for a year.

2. It will then be a case of either discontinuing Hybrid (if not really used to make it worthwhile ) and keeping the perpetual licence .

3. Waiting again till the next upgrade price for Pro to Pro (which in theory will be about two or more years after the last upgrade) .

4. Either pay for Pro to Pro (approx $120).

5. Or renew Hybrid (approx $180).

So Hybrid is $180 every year, Pro to Pro $120 every few years but you lose the "extras". Of course if "upgrades" become an annual thing (which I doubt) it all becomes marginal.

Vocalpoint wrote when not much has changed - at all.

The big silent change that most overlook, is that you can no longer buy StudioOne AddOns.

I have most of them, but if a new user like to use, for example, the 'Audio Batch Processor', MixFX or 'Presence XT editor' etc.., a subscription is required.

ansolas wrote

Vocalpoint wrote when not much has changed - at all.

The big silent change that most overlook, is that you can no longer buy StudioOne AddOns.

I have most of them, but if a new user like to use, for example, the 'Audio Batch Processor', MixFX or 'Presence XT editor' etc.., a subscription is required.

Maybe not all of them - but - https://www.jrrshop.com/presonus?dir=desc&order=special_from_date

I think you're in Europe and might not have a vendor at this time but I would think (?) given the recent timing of the decision to remove these items from the Presonus Store, it might take a bit of time for sellers to pick them up.

ansolas wroteThe big silent change that most overlook, is that you can no longer buy StudioOne AddOns.

I have most of them, but if a new user like to use, for example, the 'Audio Batch Processor', MixFX or 'Presence XT editor' etc.., a subscription is required.

This is not true. You can buy the add-ons through retailers like JRRshop.com, Sweetwater, B&H, and probably others. JRR seems to have the most complete selection, you can even get the ReWire add-on for Artist. Sweetwater has the Presence X Symphonic Library, all the Fat Channel add-ons, the Ampire High Density pack, etc.

What IS true is you can't buy them from the PreSonus shop. PreSonus has not announced whether creating a new shop without the technical issues of the old one is a priority.

Veteran users can keep using the Pro version and supplement what they have with add-ons and 3rd party products, as they always have. Subscribers who like having a ton of stuff available can subscribe, as they always have.

The "big change" gives those starting out with Studio One more choices. If you do the math and compare what you get for that, Studio One+ is a pretty good deal for those getting started. And realistically, aside from the collaboration tools, exclusive videos, online storage, etc., for users of Pro or Artist there's little in Studio One+ that can't be found either as an add-on or a similar third-party product.

ansolas wroteThe big silent change that most overlook, is that you can no longer buy StudioOne AddOns.

No one is overlooking anything - you can read all about it on the Presonus site:

Shop Update

As we work toward a unifed software and hardware drect store tor customers on PreSonus.com, we are sunsetting our PreSonus.com direct store.

Most Studio One add-ons remain available for purchase from select onIine retail partners, and all add-ons can be accessed with any Studio One* membership.

Yes - the "shop" is sub-only for now. But that is only because they are building a NEW one.

If/when this new shop becomes available - makes sense to me that we will once again be able to buy everything we always have.

It would make zero sense for Presonus to turn us away (and our cash) by slamming the shop door on us.

VP

For long-time perpetual license users, there should at least have been an offer to make Hybrid + available free of charge for one/ two year.
I am very disappointed, and as much as it sucks, I will have to give up S1. I have been paying S1 since V1 and then did all the upgrades. Also promoting S1 heavily to my friends as a great PT and Cubase atlernative.
I will miss S1 a lot, but I am not going to support Fender´s current model.

udapel wroteFor long-time perpetual license users, there should at least have been an offer to make Hybrid + available free of charge for one/ two year.
I am very disappointed, and as much as it sucks, I will have to give up S1. I have been paying S1 since V1 and then did all the upgrades. Also promoting S1 heavily to my friends as a great PT and Cubase atlernative.
Treating loyal customers like they do under Fender flag is arrogant. What do they think , to compete with AVID in the DAW / Post sector long term ? 😂
btw: Gibson destroyed a good DAW once. Looks like history will repeat itself.
So back then to the original Steinberg team. I will miss S1 a lot, but I am not going to support Fender´s current model.

Not sure I understand your issue, but if you are a "long-time perpetual license user" you can just ignore most of what happened and carry on as you were, a perpetual License user, there is no change for you.

OT

udapel wrotebtw: Gibson destroyed a good DAW once.

ummm, No, no they didn't, that is a popular misconception. If you were a Business man would you keep propping up a company that was loosing you money hand over fist year after year? and one that had done the same with their previous owner Roland? No, the fault for that lies fairly and squarely with Cakewalk.

Then there is the good DAW part . . . hmmmm, that is a matter of opinion.

jih 64: I cannot simply "ignore" the whole thing because I m not getting the full package, content, or the long awaited VSTi "Lead Architect" etc.

btw- I deleted parts of my original message which could have been misinterpret- I´ve appreciated your comments about those

S1 is not that important to me, not critical, because I use Cubendo since decades but I liked S1 much more due to certain aspects of the workflow thats why I am disappointed about the new sales approach. But well, life goes on.

udapel wrotejih 64: I cannot simply "ignore" the whole thing because I m not getting the full package, content, or the long awaited VSTi "Lead Architect" etc.

btw- I deleted parts of my original message which could have been misinterpret- I´ve appreciated your comments about those

S1 is not that important to me, not critical, because I use Cubendo since decades but I liked S1 much more due to certain aspects of the workflow thats why I am disappointed about the new sales approach. But well, life goes on.

Huh?

As a "long-time perpetual license user" you never were "getting the full package [and] content" unless you paid extra for it... as is the case with many DAWs like Cubendo.

"... long awaited VSTi 'Lead Architect'"... wasn't this just announced at the beginning of the month. I see no mention of it before April.

Really not sure what people are going on about. Too much misinformation in the echo chamber. People just want to be outraged to be outraged and are grasping at straws.

The only bit of substance is that Lead Architect isn't available outside of Hybrid, Presonus isn't saying when the new shop will be up, if it will be available for purchase separately there or at 3rd party venders.

Couldn't care less about it personally. Between NI, Arturia, and u-He it adds no value for me.

jih64 wroteNot sure I understand your issue, but if you are a "long-time perpetual license user" you can just ignore most of what happened and carry on as you were, a perpetual License user, there is no change for you.

I think it‘s about migration from an existing perpetual license to Hybrid+. And the question is: when you already have a Pro license, do you have two Pro licenses at the end of the year? And if you suspend subscription after one year and renew it later, then you‘ll have three Pro licenses?

So valid question is: if you already have the license, why can’t you get any kind of small „gratification“ for it when switching to Hybrid+?

johndoe313 wrote So valid question is: if you already have the license, why can’t you get any kind of small „gratification“ for it when switching to Hybrid+?

Because your "old school" perp license - has no value? And it's a cheaper upgrade route?

Or are you thinking that you should be able to "crossgrade" from old school perp license to Hybrid for just the difference in the price of the two ($179.00 - $139.00) = a 40.00 upgrade?

And to you other question - regarding how many perp licenses you "could" end up with:

1, As an existing perp licensed user - if I went to Hybrid today - I would have an active "full" subscription for 12 months AND still have my standalone "updatable" perp license.

2. When my Hybrid sub ends (and I do not renew)- the Hybrid license changes over to a "non-updatable" perp license. AND I still have my existing "updatable" perp license.

3. If I decide to renew Hybrid (sometime AFTER it expires - but while I am still using that free "non-updating" perp license I got in Step 2 - that license disappears once Hybrid is reactivated. AND I would still have my original "old school" updatable perp license to fall back on.

If my math is right - any of us could only ever have two perp licenses (one updatable and the other not) at any given time.

VP

Vocalpoint wrote

johndoe313 wrote So valid question is: if you already have the license, why can’t you get any kind of small „gratification“ for it when switching to Hybrid+?

Because your "old school" perp license - has no value? And it's a cheaper upgrade route?

Or are you thinking that you should be able to "crossgrade" from old school perp license to Hybrid for just the difference in the price of the two ($179.00 - $139.00) = a 40.00 upgrade?

To be honest, I hadn't given it much thought. So I can't answer that at all.

Vocalpoint wrote2. When my Hybrid sub ends (and I do not renew)- the Hybrid license changes over to a "non-updatable" perp license. AND I still have my existing "updatable" perp license.

This is where my headache starts. I've read too many contradictory statements about this recently.

I thought you can turn a Hybrid+ license into a perpetual one by simply paying the $149 upgrade fee to the next major version.

Another calculation: You stop subscription after one year, stick with what you have and "upgrade" as soon as the next major version is out. Which means $40 ($179 Hybrid+ minus $139 for an assumed upgrade) for all Hybrid+ bells & whistles for one year.

Oh well, we'll see...

Enough already.
Presonus needs to do a FAQ page and constantly update it on the fly when questions are asked..may end up being quite a long FAQ mind you.

Well I'm FAQ'd if I know.

BTW getting low performance and errors on this website again..max number of SQL connections exceeded...DDOS attack? I hope this forum software is secure (when was the last time it was updated?)

johndoe313 wrote This is where my headache starts. I've read too many contradictory statements about this recently. I thought you can turn a Hybrid+ license into a perpetual one by simply paying the $149 upgrade fee to the next major version.

Yes. This move would drop your Hybrid sub, kill off all the extras, (most likely) kill off the existing "free" (non-updatable") license (if you had one because of not renewing Hybrid) - and you land right back to where you are now. Which is a standard old school perp license with all usual updates, discounted major upgrade - but no extras @149.00

johndoe313 wrote Another calculation: You stop subscription after one year, stick with what you have and "upgrade" as soon as the next major version is out. Which means $30 ($179 Hybrid+ minus $149 for an assumed upgrade) for all Hybrid+ bells & whistles for one year.

Nope. If you do not renew your Hybrid sub and ride into the sun with just your "new school" (non-updatable) Perp license - you are free and clear with no cost at all for as long as you want:

The only possible moves after this are:

1. Renew Hybrid ($179.00)
2. Rebuy (not upgrade) an old school perp license (and enjoy all the cool updates again) @ $149.00

Bottom line - your free "new school" perp license has zero redeeming "upgrade" value.

At the end of it all - this really comes to a personal decision to spend $179.00 or $149.00.

VP

I don't think PreSonus will go sub only. If you look at the way Studio One is designed, it speaks of a company who tries to give the users "everything" in a general sense. So, I think subscriptions and perpetual licenses will run side by side. Except if Fender breaks this business module in a moment of extremely bad judgement.

On the other hand, Avid, Apple and Waves have always been arrogant, and anything is possible when it comes to them. I won't place PreSonus in the box with them. It's good to speak up though, so that PreSonus knows how their users feel.

edlane1 wroteI don't think PreSonus will go sub only. .

They have already stated this - ad nauseum - since 2020 (when Sphere first appeared) - both here and every where else that Presonus software is discussed.

They take the existing perpetual crowd (like us) very seriously and any microscopic move to change that dynamic has been met with fast and furious backlash.

Any "sub only" move would be a lethal blow to Presonus - and one they would never be allowed to forget (what company would ever want to be in the same "arrogant" bucket as Avid, Apple and Waves?)

Not to mention the instant loss of much of their existing customer base.

I think this has been made this loud and clear over the last 4 years.

VP