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stephenrachlin wroteThanks again.
When I am doing the mixdown, is it possible to move the faders? For example, I want to bring up the guitar at a certain point.

Absolutely. It's encouraged. Even practice with it. Now you're gaining the benefit of a DAW and what is known as "gain riding".

Here as an added benefit to that if you'd like to try, while you're trying this out. It's known as "writing to track automation".

At the bottom of each fader, you have a series of selections listed at [Auto Off]
Read
Touch
Latch
Write

[Write] acts as record so even when playing back, if you move the fader, you are recording the movements. Just remember Turn off WRITE, by selecting READ every time you want to hear back the automation of what you did. If not, you will unintentionally over-write when you play back.

Want to see the automation of your fader movements? In the tracks view, click on the bottom left where the squiggly line icon is, and it will open that automation lane. You can opt to draw in fixes to what you were gain riding. You'll see the fader movements (slider) of that track via the changes you draw. This will allow you to fine tune those fader movements if you so choose.

Try it out. Don't be afraid. If you don't save the song, you're simply trying things out.
I'll find a link for you as to what the other selections do [too much to text], but this should get you going towards refining the mix.

Here's a link on how you may want to use those automation modes. [Link] or [Touch] is very useful as you can play back not having to worry about over writing anything, and will only record your fader (slider) movements only when you touch the fader.
https://youtu.be/qvbvpMeX_yE

Here's another from Joe. A little lengthy and over worded, but I think will help you choose a few more options.
https://youtu.be/dPtOIvsSVm4

If you ever feel you want to bail out of using track automation, you can always select [Auto Off] and you'll be back to the manual fader movements.

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by stephenrachlin on Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:59 am
Thanks Lokefly.
I think I'm missing a step.

(1) I set the volume of the 4 TEAC output channels to stay out of the red.
(2) All 4 of the AudioBox input channels are set at about 4.
(3) I confirm that the 4 input channels in the Studio One are not bouncing into the red.
(4) Question: At this point, do I need to worry about the Main Out meter? I am assuming that doesn't affect the quality of the SONG recording itself. When creating the SONG file, I only need to worry about the inputs in the MIX Console. Is that right?
(5) After I have the SONG file, I adjust the levels of the 4 channels in the MIX Console to keep the Main Out from bouncing into the red. You have recommended that I leave the Main Out at 0.0dB and adjust the input faders as needed.
(6) After I find the correct levels, I Export Mixdown to an MP3 file. When I Export Mixdown, the Mix just converts from SONG to MP3 without the possibility of modifications. Is there a step after (5) when I record a SONG mix while I'll adjust the Console controls as needed?
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by Vocalpoint on Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:19 pm
stephenrachlin wrote (1) I set the volume of the 4 TEAC output channels to stay out of the red.
(2) All 4 of the AudioBox input channels are set at about 4.
(3) I confirm that the 4 input channels in the Studio One are not bouncing into the red.
(4) Question: At this point, do I need to worry about the Main Out meter? I am assuming that doesn't affect the quality of the SONG recording itself. When creating the SONG file, I only need to worry about the inputs in the MIX Console. Is that right?
(5) After I have the SONG file, I adjust the levels of the 4 channels in the MIX Console to keep the Main Out from bouncing into the red. You have recommended that I leave the Main Out at 0.0dB and adjust the input faders as needed.
(6) After I find the correct levels, I Export Mixdown to an MP3 file. When I Export Mixdown, the Mix just converts from SONG to MP3 without the possibility of modifications. Is there a step after (5) when I record a SONG mix while I'll adjust the Console controls as needed?


You might want to consider this entire workflow from a "gain staging" angle (using dbFS values in S1) rather than worrying about something "in the red". That is an old school analog phrase that has no bearing in a DAW like Studio One. If this workflow was mine....

First TIP: 0.0db (TEAC) = -18.0dbFS (Studio One)

(1) Set the volume of the TEAC output channels to hover on the TEAC analog meters around 0.0db (and do not worry about the "red")

(2) Set AudioBox input channels to a healthy level (as close to 0 or whatever zero is on the AudioBox) as possible - unless your source material coming from the TEAC is too hot - then I dial back the AudioBox level to get....

(3) Each AudioBox channel input to S1 (AND use the input trims IN S1 if you need to) to get each S1 console channel meter bouncing around anywhere from -18dbFS to -12dbFS - and forget anything "about the red"

TIP: Occasional "transients" like a cymbal crash or similar is fine to punch up a specific channel for a short time so if you see a drum track bouncing up to -8dbFS on the snare - it's fine as long as it's once a while and not constant.

(4) At this point - your transfer should be very balanced and the Master Output Bus (always at 0.0dbFS) should be all good

(5) Once the song is in S1 - Save and adjust the levels of the 4 channels in the MIX Console to keep the Main Out from going anywhere near 0.0dbFS. A good mix will be somewhere between -5.0dbFS and -2dbFS is perfect. Leave the Main Out at 0.0dB and adjust the input faders as needed.

Thinking "digital" (dbFS metering in S1) vs analog (in the red) is where you need to take this.

In digital - you never want (or need) to be anywhere near the "red". Red in digital is disaster. Give yourself some head room and do not be concerned about meters hitting 0.0 like they do in the Teac.

VP
Last edited by Vocalpoint on Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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by stephenrachlin on Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:42 pm
Wow. I'll try your method.
Still, at what point can I make adjustments during the Mix? How can I bring up the guitar in the middle of a song? It still seems like, during the Mix, I play through the material and make adjustments. Then, it is that final static setting that is the Mixdown to MP3.
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by Vocalpoint on Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:50 pm
stephenrachlin wroteWow. I'll try your method. Still, at what point can I make adjustments during the Mix? How can I bring up the guitar in the middle of a song? It still seems like, during the Mix, I play through the material and make adjustments. Then, it is that final static setting that is the Mixdown to MP3.


You are correct - if you are making static moves and render - you get a static file - like say the guitar is up and stays up.

I think you can also consider a "mix" on the fly (real time render) where you are moving the actual faders while the MP3 is being created (I have never tried this so don't quote me).

OR (better still)....

Automation - let S1 bring "up" your guitars etc where needed and back down (as needed) by playing the track AND record volume automation curves as it plays. This would be my choice.

This method is slightly more labor intensive (until you get the hang of it) but you can record the automation by playing the track through and moving the faders as it plays - and then use the automation tools to fine tune the automation lane curves to get fine gradual control of all automation PLUS it's awesome to watch S1 do all the mixing automatically once the automation is written and edited.

The biggest bonus is once automation is setup on whatever tracks you need it to handle - you can print your MP3 with those fader moves baked in - and render out your file super fast like you have been doing - vs a real time render.

Kudos to Switchback too - I forgot about Clip Gain Envelopes. That's the coolness of A1 - mutiple ways to deal with anything!

VP
Last edited by Vocalpoint on Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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by SwitchBack on Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:01 pm
During the actual mix down process (which creates e.g. an mp3 file) there's nothing you can do. The computer executes the task as fast as it can, usually many times faster than normal playback speed.

But you absolutely can automate changes when you create the mix. Almost every knob and button in Studio One can be automated, and all these automated changes will be taken into account during the mix down process.

Lokefly already posted a few links on how to automate the faders and you can do exactly the same with EQ settings, compressor settings etc. etc.

And for level changes in the early stages of the mixing process you can also use the clip gain envelopes as per the link I posted earlier.
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by stephenrachlin on Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:01 pm
VP
(2) Set AudioBox input channels to a healthy level (as close to 0 or whatever zero is on the AudioBox) as possible - unless your source material coming from the TEAC is too hot - then I dial back the AudioBox level to get....

FYI, the clip lights on the AudioBox are flashing like crazy. Disregard? Or, lower the volume on the AudioBox until they stop flashing?

(3) Each AudioBox channel input to S1 (AND use the input trims IN S1 if you need to) to get each S1 console channel meter bouncing around anywhere from -18dbFS to -12dbFS - and forget anything "about the red"

The input level meter in the Tracks are jumping way higher than -12db. It is mostly -9 to 0db and I'm getting those red clip/peak level counts. So, in order to reduce it, I moved the slider to the right of each meter. That does not affect the meter reading in the Tracks, only the meter reading in the Main Out. What am I doing wrong?
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by Vocalpoint on Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:12 pm
stephenrachlin wrote(2) Set AudioBox input channels to a healthy level (as close to 0 or whatever zero is on the AudioBox) as possible - unless your source material coming from the TEAC is too hot - then I dial back the AudioBox level to get....

FYI, the clip lights on the AudioBox are flashing like crazy. Disregard? Or, lower the volume on the AudioBox until they stop flashing?


Drop the level of the TEAC (while leaving the AudioBox level at 0) until the flashing stops (or just barely blips here and there). Constant red on the AudioBox is also bad as that too is a clip light and not a good thing.

stephenrachlin wrote (3) Each AudioBox channel input to S1 (AND use the input trims IN S1 if you need to) to get each S1 console channel meter bouncing around anywhere from -18dbFS to -12dbFS - and forget anything "about the red"

The input level meter in the Tracks are jumping way higher than -12db. It is mostly -9 to 0db and I'm getting those red clip/peak level counts. So, in order to reduce it, I moved the slider to the right of each meter. That does not affect the meter reading in the Tracks, only the meter reading in the Main Out. What am I doing wrong?


You are doing nothing wrong as this is simply the "input" level heading to each channel. Still think you need to strike a balance between the TEAC level and AudioBox level (no clip lights) and if that still does not get the signals in the ballpark - reach for the Input Gain controls on the top of each S1 channel (visible via the Settings/Wrench icon in the lower left of the console window) to "tame" the incoming signals so they start showing more like -18dbFS to say -10dbFS.

If you are coming in @ -9dbFS to 0 - that is still too hot. Just ride the various level points (TEAC->AUDIOBOX->S1) until you find a good compromise.

VP

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by stephenrachlin on Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:59 pm
But, just to be clear:
(1) When the TEAC meter goes into the red, it is not sending a distorted signal? That's not something that needs to be avoided in itself?
(2) However, I do want to avoid the clipping lights on the AudioBox by adjusting the input control on the AudioBox or dialing back the TEAC output.
(3) If I have to reduce the signal, does it matter whether I reduce the TEAC output or the AudioBox - should I favor one or the other?
(4) When I adjust the 'Input Gain' control, it doesn't affect the Track meters. It affects the Main Out meter. It has the same effect as adjusting the slider to the right of the Track meters.
(5) I can get the Main Out between -18 and -12. No problem. But, you want me to get the input Tracks reading in that range, right? Neither moving the fader nor adjusting the gain control does that for me.
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by SwitchBack on Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:03 pm
To keep things simple maybe don't try to do two or three steps at once. There's no need to.

Step 1 is to get the tracks from the Teac recorded in S1. The goal is to achieve this with minimum distortion and with minimum noise, and there's only one place where you can make that happen: at the inputs of your AudioBox. Find the input levels where the clipping lights come on and then back off either the Teac outputs or the AudioBox inputs far enough so they never come on again. You can monitor the levels from S1 but there's nothing you can do from there to prevent your interface from clipping. When you've got the inputs dialed in then start recording until done.

Step 2 is to adjust the track levels inside S1 before you start mixing them together. Don't do this with the faders (these come in later) but use the input controls (available from the console options), event gain (from the Inspector or with the handle on the event) or the clip gain envelopes instead. You can play around with these settings as much as you like because recording is already done and the settings won't degrade that in any way. You probably want all tracks equally loud initially, so this is where you can aim for -12 ~ -18dB on each track (with all faders at 0dB). But also use your ears because not all types of signals at a given meter level sound equally loud. Ignore any clipping on the main bus for now.

Step 3 is to mix the tracks together for a mix down. This is where the faders, plug-ins and automation come in. Again you can experiment as much as you want, just as long as the final mix isn't clipping when you're done. When you're happy with the mix you can export it e.g. to an mp3 file.

Last remark is about the AudioBox 44VSL: Note that the jacks on inputs 1 and 2 are instrument inputs, not line inputs. Connecting those to the Teac will probably give quite a bit of distortion. For a good match you want to use a (passive) stereo DI box between the Teac and XLR inputs 1 and 2 of the AudioBox. The jacks on inputs 3 and 4 are line inputs so they should be fine.
Last edited by SwitchBack on Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by stephenrachlin on Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:12 pm
SO CLEAR. Thank you!
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by Lokeyfly on Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:52 pm
stephenrachlin wroteWow. I'll try your method.
Still, at what point can I make adjustments during the Mix? How can I bring up the guitar in the middle of a song? It still seems like, during the Mix, I play through the material and make adjustments. Then, it is that final static setting that is the Mixdown to MP3.


Follow all the useful step by step instructions, users have provided. That will ensure your tracks have a healthy and non distorted volume. As to asking again how to bring up the guitar in the middle, c"mon stephenrachlin. I attached two very basic videos on exactly how that's done. There, you're going to have to gain ride (you now know the term), and even draw in, or over-write automation. Get your healthy recorded tracks into Studio alone first.

You'll be fine. 👍
We always worry about going into the red. Solution? Don't. ;)

The gain riding (fader follow up movements) will occur later after you have healthy tracks (yes, basically static) in Studio One.

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by stephenrachlin on Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:44 pm
After I have my Mix, where do I want the MAIN OUT meter to be - around 0?
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by Lokeyfly on Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:09 pm
stephenrachlin wroteAfter I have my Mix, where do I want the MAIN OUT meter to be - around 0?

Close to it. Maximum peak (true peak) readings should not exceed a few tenths below zero. By exceed, I mean if TP is 0.2 dB from zero, back off a bit.

What you may and probably will find is that your final output to the MP3 (or any file format) will not be as old as other music. Be it through your stereo, your car, your cell phone. Don't sweat it yet. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it.
You can use a limiter, or maximizer effect.
First let's get a good clean, no distortion mix done first.

Use the Studio One meter that shows True Peak or another meter if your choice. It will gauge the highest peak reading of your song. Insert that on your main out.

The more you use a meter, particularly on the main out. The better understanding of seeing or anticipating peaks will happen.

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by stephenrachlin on Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:59 am
Another thing that worries me:
After all the levels are set, while everything is idle, there seems to be noise in the channels.
Track 1 = nothing
Track 2 = -58
Track 3 = -55
Track 4 = -50
That little green meter is bouncing around before I even start to play the tape. I can reduce it by lowering the output on the tape player.
What do you suggest?
Should I lower the volume of the tape player output and increase the volume of the AudioBox input?
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by SwitchBack on Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:14 pm
Try set the output levels from the Teac higher and the input gains on the AudioBox lower. This is part of gain staging, to bring up levels as soon as possible in the audio chain and then avoid bringing them down so much that they need re-amplification.

Other than this it may also be a technical issue with the equipment. Swap some cables and see if the noise moves too. And remember the difference between instrument inputs and line inputs.
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by stephenrachlin on Sun Jun 11, 2023 11:06 am
SwitchBack:

Just to double check.



Step 1 is to get the tracks from the Teac recorded in S1. The goal is to achieve this with minimum distortion and with minimum noise, and there's only one place where you can make that happen: at the inputs of your AudioBox. Find the input levels where the clipping lights come on and then back off either the Teac outputs or the AudioBox inputs far enough so they never come on again. You can monitor the levels from S1 but there's nothing you can do from there to prevent your interface from clipping. When you've got the inputs dialed in then start recording until done.



I just control the clipping at the teac (keep it out of the red) and the audiobox (make sure the clipping light doesn't come on). it doesn't matter if the console tracks are going crazy. go ahead and record the .song.



Step 2 is to adjust the track levels inside S1 before you start mixing them together. Don't do this with the faders (these come in later) but use the input controls (available from the console options), event gain (from the Inspector or with the handle on the event) or the clip gain envelopes instead. You can play around with these settings as much as you like because recording is already done and the settings won't degrade that in any way. You probably want all tracks equally loud initially, so this is where you can aim for -12 ~ -18dB on each track (with all faders at 0dB). But also use your ears because not all types of signals at a given meter level sound equally loud. Ignore any clipping on the main bus for now.



Get all the tracks between -12 and -18 using the console input controls without moving the faders. this is just ensure that nothing exceeds -12.



Step 3 is to mix the tracks together for a mix down. This is where the faders, plug-ins and automation come in. Again you can experiment as much as you want, just as long as the final mix isn't clipping when you're done. When you're happy with the mix you can export it e.g. to an mp3 file.



Then, use the faders and vca to set the relative volumes of the tracks. apply sends and other stuff. now, mixdown to mp3.

The reason i wanted to double-check is because there is a huge difference from the procedure that i was using.

(1) The source is much much higher. i was trying to keep the console tracks under control.
(2) The target ranges are much lower (-12 max input and -2 max output). I was shooting for 0.
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by SwitchBack on Mon Jun 12, 2023 12:40 pm
Step 1: correct, but if Studio One detects clipping on its inputs then you're still too loud on the AudioBox inputs. Have a safety margin! (try 6dB at least). Also, some interfaces sound nicer when input levels are set lower (but not too low or noise levels will seep through).

Step 2: correct, although -12dB is in no way sacred. The idea here is mainly to make further processing easier. With all faders at 0dB it should already give a mix where every channel can be heard but probably not it the right proportions yet.

Step 3: correct. Here is where you decide on the composition, e.g. lead vocalist a few dB louder than the accompanying tracks combined, guitars slightly to the left, keys slightly to the right, slight boost for the instrument solo, etc. etc., or not ;)

With experience you can do step 1 and once recording is started continue with step 2 as it won't interfere with the recording. But I do advise to complete step 2 before starting step 3.

Hope this helps :)
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by klypeman on Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:41 am
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