So now i am forced to update Windows as well for the first time ever. My systems 100% solid on 1909 and has been since the day i built it and you wan't me to take a chance on Windows updating and working for a DAW update. Really.
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garyanderson5 wroteI don't know how long Presonus have had system requirements based on a specific Windows OS version, If it was a while ago and my version 6 worked until today then why didn't they inform people something changed in this update. Obviously they changed something from the original V6 release for it suddenly not to work. I am using 6.0.2 with zero problems regardless if they stated the latest version of WIN10 requirements or not. Iv'e never seen any DAW company change OS version requirements mid life cycle but here we are. ^ This, x1000; it's a radically odd decision. |
TonalDynamics wrote This is false for many editions of windows, like LTSC which I'm using for my audio workstation, where security and driver/firmware updates are provided regardless of whether regular 'feature' updates have been installed. Understood - ONLY LTSC and ENT (and possibly special EDU editions) still offer support for 1909. However these licenses are only available under an MS Enterprise, Business or EDU licensing agreements. Which judging by your comments - you must be very familiar with just as I am. That said - the bulk of the crew in here will mostly likely running consumer or OEM editions of Win 10 (Home, Pro) VP
DAW: Studio One Pro 6.6.0.99237 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.249) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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TonalDynamics wrotegaryanderson5 wrote^ This, x1000; it's a radically odd decision. Judging by the official Windows Lifecycle chart AND the message that Gary received - it appears that Presonus is actually being quite reasonable with their "supported" Windows 10 versioning: Version Start Date End Date Version 22H2 Oct 18, 2022 May 14, 2024 Version 21H2 Nov 16, 2021 Jun 13, 2023 Version 21H1 May 18, 2021 Dec 13, 2022 Version 20H2 Oct 20, 2020 May 10, 2022 Version 2004 May 27, 2020 Dec 14, 2021 Presonus appears to be supporting at least three versions of Windows 10 that are (by the book) now officially end of life. Supporting 5 different versions of Win 10 is very generous as they actually could have forced everyone to get to 21H2 (or newer) if they really wanted to be hardcore about this. VP
DAW: Studio One Pro 6.6.0.99237 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.249) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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Vocalpoint wrotegaryanderson5 wrote Everything is up to date except Windows and some drivers. Your right i could try a Windows update on a system that has had zero problems ever, but why risk 5 years of DAW environment on the chance it implodes for one app with a few updates. There is nothing in this update that warrent's a huge OS update what so ever. The trade off is an OS with more bloat and junk that's forced on you for a couple of things you may or may not use in 6.1. Even worse your system caves in during the update. That's the reality of it. Give me 30% CPU perfomance increase and i am more than willing to risk it |
Vocalpoint wroteTonalDynamics wrotegaryanderson5 wrote^ This, x1000; it's a radically odd decision. |
garyanderson5 wrote You're right I could try a Windows update on a system that has had zero problems ever, but why risk 5 years of DAW environment on the chance it implodes for one app with a few updates? Totally understood. ANY OS upgrade has its risks. It's up to you to choose to go or not go. But you will need to go sometime. garyanderson5 wrote There is nothing in this update that warrants' a huge OS update whatsoever. The tradeoff is an OS with more bloat and junk that's forced on you for a couple of things you may or may not use in 6.1. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it - but if this is truly your position - why bother posting here and complaining about it? Just carry on, bypass 6.1 and keep rocking 1909. No harm, no foul. VP
DAW: Studio One Pro 6.6.0.99237 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.249) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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garyanderson5 wroteYour right i could try a Windows update on a system that has had zero problems ever, but why risk 5 years of DAW environment on the chance it implodes for one app with a few updates. Isn't this really the crux of your issue -- fear of updates corrupting your system? Well I had had plenty of the same feeling, who wouldn't reading some of the horror stories ... only ... it turns out the vast majority of "users" like myself rarely (and there's an asterisk attached to the one problem I had which was traced to the presence of demo software) if ever experience any interruption or difference at all after an update. As always, backing up with the ability to restore under pressure is key. As is delaying updates, easy to do in Windows10 Pro, till you get a break in crucial recording. On less of a tangent, there seem to be an impressive amount of ease-of-use improvements on the 6.1 front. Color expansion alone is a godsend. Credit for the industriousness!
Last edited by MisterE on Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I am now also a victim of this decision. MisterE wrotegaryanderson5 wroteSo now i am forced to update Windows as well for the first time ever. My systems 100% solid on 1909 and has been since the day i built it and you wan't me to take a chance on Windows updating and working for a DAW update. Really. This is a horrible take. It has nothing to do with his PC hardware, or PC obsolescence (W10 is nowhere even close to obsolete), it's Presonus choosing to phase out entire OS versions inexplicably, without even telling anyone beforehand (something like 6 mo. - 1 yr would be appropriate for such a consequential decision) "End of Life" does not mean, "You must stop developing software for this OS 2 and a half years before it's no longer officially supported"... Presonus is jumping the gun here, plain and simple, as I'll demonstrate: There are a grand total of 0 of my (updated) creative applications that won't run on W10 LTSC 1809, including:
And many more; again, none of these apps refuse to install on 1809 apart from this 6.1 update... who at Presonus decided to do this? This move is baffling, doubly so in that we weren't warned a long time in advance about a change this radical and exclusionary. What of those of us who are using LTSC (which has full security and driver updates, and is used as a bloat-free W10 option for many Pro Audio workstations)? We don't get access to 20H1+, we don't even have standard update cycles, even though we get full security and driver/firmware updates. I'm very shocked by this decision... I've been a Sphere member for many years now but will have to cancel if a new installer isn't provided for those of us who are unable to upgrade our OS currently (I am not doing this for a couple more years, as I build a new machine every 5). I expected something like this when W10 EoL hits in Q4 '25; NOT in Q1 '23, and certainly not in between major version changes. Presonus, please provide an installer for 6.1 which doesn't have new hidden OS limitations! Sincerely, TD |
Vocalpoint wroteTonalDynamics wrotegaryanderson5 wrote^ This, x1000; it's a radically odd decision. "Generous"? Dropping compatibility (NOT support, mind you) on entire OS versions with no warning whatsoever, on a .1 update, in between major version releases? This isn't generous, it's unprecedented. Without an LTSC 1809 compatible installer, I'll be forced to drop my Sphere subscription and keep using 5.5 for the foreseeable future. I just wish I had known about this earlier, I would have saved about $90 USD in sub fees. Call me crazy but I just assumed that because 6.0 and several updates worked on my system, that 6.1 would as well... |
Vocalpoint wroteTonalDynamics wrote This is false for many editions of windows, like LTSC which I'm using for my audio workstation, where security and driver/firmware updates are provided regardless of whether regular 'feature' updates have been installed. For others tempted to further investigate "alternative" (LTSC, ENT, etc.) Windows variations, you should know that one of the most interesting posters on Gearspace/Music Computer is Psychlist1972 -- interesting because not only does he work at Microsoft, he's in charge of MIDI developments there and regularly shares company knowledge on the forum -- and rarely if ever concludes that these variations are the best options for most people doing DAW work. There are always exceptions, but I'd urge curious folks to read up on what he has to say. The "Windows 11 is rolling out ... " thread is a good place to start. In other words, what's best for systems administrators in charge of updating thousands of corporate workstations in one fell swoop isn't always what's best for indiviudals recording death metal.
Last edited by MisterE on Wed Mar 22, 2023 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TonalDynamics wrote If you're expecting me to agree with your conclusion that Presonus is doing this to f**k us all up, you're gonna be waiting a while. What all the software companies you listed above have in common is that none of them implemented the exact same features Presonus did which Presonus concluded will work infinitely better in a recent version of Win10 than an older one or a variation that isn't popular with a high percentage of DAW users for good reasons better explained by Psychlist1972 who works at Microsoft that I referenced a few posts above. (trying once again to get back on topic) Hey how about those busy Presonus programmers who have a lot to show for their hard work? |
TonalDynamics wroteWithout an LTSC 1809 compatible installer, I'll be forced to drop my Sphere subscription and keep using 5.5 for the foreseeable future. Not only is LTSC is NOT recommended for any typical day-to-day usage - it is a severely restricted license situation. How you are running it at all is a topic for another day and not for this forum. That said - the biggest misstep is that LTSC does not appear on the Presonus system requirements anywhere. I seriously doubt that even Presonus themselves know what it is or even install it internally. It most certainly would never be part of any S1 testing and if you are running it - you would be on your own. Now I do get it - LTSC is awesome as long as you are running LTSC 2021 - but I would not be putting that on any DAW with commercial products - for this reason and others I have come across. Good luck with your next OS move. VP
DAW: Studio One Pro 6.6.0.99237 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.249) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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MisterE wroteHey how about those busy Presonus programmers who have a lot to show for their hard work? Exactly! Sad how this turned into a Presonus basher thread on the day of what looks like an awesome new release. Cheers! VP
DAW: Studio One Pro 6.6.0.99237 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.249) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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F you Presonus!
I'm on MS DOS 6.2, and a loyal customer. Where is my action? Joking aside there is a damn good reason why apps have to have a min OS requirement (tagging along with MS libraries supplied and keeping their dev tools in check), and there is also a damn good reason to stay with ye oldie your system configuration (although nowadays that's not such a great reason, upgrading and compatibility is hardly an issue, this ain't 1991). Regardless take your poison and deal with the reality of the situation. Oh yeah - and dual OS boot, always a good thing. Taking a chance a problem? Try backing up. You have options. Or hey, just trench in. p.s Windows 11 rocks and is stable. Anyway looks pretty good, still pondering on whether to upgrade to 6 or not. It's certainly a valiant effort.
Last edited by PreAl on Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb. Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental). Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths. |
Vocalpoint wroteNot only is LTSC is NOT recommended for any typical day-to-day usage It's rather well-known by quite a few people that it's one of if not the most 'bloat-free' versions of W10. Microsoft propaganda downplayed this point so that people wouldn't run off looking for copies of LTSC as opposed to the more streamlined and 'connected' versions of the OS, which feature the typical affiliate-bloatware and associated revenue-generating telemetry. Vocalpoint wrote It is a severely restricted license situation. How you are running it at all is a topic for another day and not for this forum. Not that it's any of your business, but the organization I work for had access to several VLs from Microsoft, LTSC among them. After finding out about its benefits I chose to use it for my personal machine to migrate my DAW setup when I had to move to W10 in Q4 2019. Whether or not you see this as a morally gray area is of no concern to me. Vocalpoint wroteThat said - the biggest misstep is that LTSC does not appear on the Presonus system requirements anywhere. Indeed. Vocalpoint wroteI seriously doubt that even Presonus themselves know what it is or even install it internally. It most certainly would never be part of any S1 testing and if you are running it - you would be on your own. Forgive me but this is pure speculation; it is highly unlikely that they are unaware of Enterprise editions of Windows, or that they should provide support for those systems if possible. Which they have done... until today. PreAl wroteI'm on MS DOS 6.2, and a loyal customer. Where is my action? Vocalpoint wroteNow I do get it - LTSC is awesome as long as you are running LTSC 2021Pre's nonsensical hyperbole notwithstanding, LTSC 2019 is also awesome. Did you see what I said before? Let me reiterate: I have never, in my 3 and a half years of using this OS, had any software refuse to install or run on W10 LTSC 1809; S1v6.1 is the first, among the dozens of creative apps I listed (in addition to many others), to bar me from installing it on my OS (on a machine brimming with nothing but creative apps and a few steam games). Vocalpoint wroteGood luck with your next OS move.As I said, not for another 2 years... new builds + OS migrations are an unbelievably time consuming PITA for a working producer/musician, 4-5 years is as much as I'm able to manage, and when I'm busy with work even that's pushing it. MisterE wroteWhat all the software companies you listed above have in common is that none of them implemented the exact same features Presonus did which Presonus concluded will work infinitely better in a recent version of Win10 than an older one or a variation that isn't popular with a high percentage of DAW users for good reasons better explained by Psychlist1972 who works at Microsoft that I referenced a few posts above. That's speculation on your part, you have no more idea than we do why they are requiring a new min. OS. version within the OS -- not at all the same as requiring a min. OS mind you -- and a highly uncommon practice for any developer to engage in. As for getting advice about Windows from people who work at MS, refer to my first paragraph as to why that's generally a bad idea. PreAl wroteJoking aside there is a damn good reason why apps have to have a min OS requirement (tagging along with MS libraries supplied and keeping their dev tools in check), and there is also a damn good reason to stay with ye oldie your system configuration (although nowadays that's not such a great reason, upgrading and compatibility is hardly an issue, this ain't 1991). Regardless take your poison and deal with the reality of the situation. You guys really don't seem to be grasping why I'm so upset... implementing OS version cut-offs between major version releases is practically unheard of with any software developer, much less a creative suite that people like me make their living off of. As GaryAnderson said before, the point is that there was no warning for this, and if you think he and I will be the only ones affected you're crazy. If 6.0 had launched, and I had been unable to install it, I'd have been disappointed, but at least I wouldn't have already saved a half-dozen projects in 6.0 format and begun working on them over the last month... I have literally lost work because of this. The right step would have been, to keep this update in the pipeline, but alert the users ahead of time that their OS would no longer be compatible with the software, thus giving us several months to plan ahead for such an eventuality. As it stands I'm going to have to go for a long time now and either pay for S1v6 without updates, or revert back to 5.5 completely, which will mean copying a lot of MIDI, audio files, and signal chains back into 5.5 since the song files are not backwards-compatible. MisterE wrote(trying once again to get back on topic) Hey how about those busy Presonus programmers who have a lot to show for their hard work? Sure. The new features look solid, there's (finally) color customization, per album mastering loudness targets (would be helpful for my workflow)... I just wish I wasn't excluded from using them without warning. That said I'm more than willing to delete these posts if they give me a compatible installer for the product I've paid a lot of money for over the years. Hopefully that clears things up. -TD |
TonalDynamics wroteI'm more than willing to delete these posts if they give me a compatible installer for the product I've paid a lot of money for over the years. Well - I would be very happy if you deleted these posts because exactly none of this endless ranting will matter. And I am guessing you also will not get a special installer either. Presonus (like all vendors) works closely with MS and fully supports their OS lifecycle. If I were Presonus - I too would not support anything that MS does not support (LTSC 2019 is Win 10 1809 which is even more ancient that Gary's 1909). Nor would I deviate from my specific system requirements either. (Where there is zero mention of LTSC) That you chose to run Windows 10 LTSC 2019 - because it's "bloat free" or whatever - is unfortunate but you had to know you were on your own the day you installed it for use with Studio One. Be thankful that you managed to use it for this long. VP
DAW: Studio One Pro 6.6.0.99237 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.249) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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TonalDynamics wroteMicrosoft propaganda downplayed this point so that people wouldn't run off looking for copies of LTSC as opposed to the more streamlined and 'connected' versions of the OS, which feature the typical affiliate-bloatware and associated revenue-generating telemetry. Is your local dispensary out of weed or something? |
garyanderson5 wroteSo now i am forced to update Windows as well for the first time ever. My systems 100% solid on 1909 and has been since the day i built it and you wan't me to take a chance on Windows updating and working for a DAW update. Really. Me to brother, you're not alone. I only upgraded from v1903 not to long back because it was require by the latest BFD3 since InMusic took over. Going to have to think about it, I think you can get around the install problem, but whether or not it will cause issues, sometimes they are just blowing wind up your arse, I've done it with other programs and there were no issues, hmmm |
garyanderson5 wroteSo now i am forced to update Windows as well for the first time ever. My systems 100% solid on 1909 and has been since the day i built it and you wan't me to take a chance on Windows updating and working for a DAW update. Really. You could do a disk backup image of your system disk and give it a try, if not ok just restore that image, I'm doing that now on what is now my test machine, the one in my signature, I'll see how I go. |
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