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and just for thought . . .

REAPER supports all Windows versions from Windows XP to Windows 11
.
as well as . . .

REAPER supports Linux on Intel and ARM architectures, and the Windows version works well with WINE.

REAPER supports macOS 10.5* to macOS 12.

For every Arthur C Clarke quoter, there is a know-all who likes to quote Arthur C Clarke
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by Anderton on Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:56 pm
jih64 wroteYou could do a disk backup image of your system disk and give it a try, if not ok just restore that image, I'm doing that now on what is now my test machine, the one in my signature, I'll see how I go.


That's exactly what I do - create a disk image, put it aside, install the new OS or whatever, and work with it for a while. I do miss the days of drive bays for removable drives, which made testing a lot easier. And I'm envious of the way that Macs can boot off of external drives. But disk images have saved my workflow not only with OS changes, but when some program's "update" didn't turn out to be as expected.

FWIW I haven't upgraded to Windows 11 yet, but many people who know a helluva lot more about computers than I do say that it's better than Windows 10. And Windows 10 has been very stable for me. But I'll image my Windows 10 C drive first :)

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by jih64 on Thu Mar 23, 2023 12:26 am
Anderton wrote
jih64 wroteYou could do a disk backup image of your system disk and give it a try, if not ok just restore that image, I'm doing that now on what is now my test machine, the one in my signature, I'll see how I go.


That's exactly what I do - create a disk image, put it aside, install the new OS or whatever, and work with it for a while. I do miss the days of drive bays for removable drives, which made testing a lot easier. And I'm envious of the way that Macs can boot off of external drives. But disk images have saved my workflow not only with OS changes, but when some program's "update" didn't turn out to be as expected.

FWIW I haven't upgraded to Windows 11 yet, but many people who know a helluva lot more about computers than I do say that it's better than Windows 10. And Windows 10 has been very stable for me. But I'll image my Windows 10 C drive first :)


Yes, Windows 10 has been awesome for me since day 1, a few little aesthetic issues to make me happy which had nothing to do with how it performed or operated, and all my machines were in-place upgrades from Win7 which saved me a lot of time and I couldn't be happier with how they have all performed since. So if Windows 11 is better that is awesome, helps with the anxiety :) I know you'd be getting the good oil :thumbup:

Well 21H2 is about to finish installation, time to see what gives.

For every Arthur C Clarke quoter, there is a know-all who likes to quote Arthur C Clarke
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by kdm on Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:16 am
gregghart wroteIt's weird that S1 is your only app complaining,


Not really. Studio One checks for the OS version and quits the installer if it doesn't match. It is the only application I've ever seen in 30 years in this business that does this. Every other DAW and application simply lists the oldest tested/supported version, but it will at least install, and 99% of the time, run fine (OSX versions excepted due to frequent core structure changes).

As the poster noted, there is usually absolutely nothing to prevent an application from running on an older version of Windows 10 (or even 8). I still have a Windows 7 sample-server that runs EW Play/HW Orchestra and Cantabile just fine.

When Studio One 5 was first released, its installer rejected Windows 8, while Cubase, Nuendo, ProTools, DP, VEPro, Wavelab, and hundreds of plugins all ran fine. Other applications might issue a warning, if even that (I've never seen one), but will at least install. Not so with Studio One.

It is common to freeze systems for years in a production environment. With Windows, avoiding the ever increasing security and forced updates is a big reason to do so. OSX updates can be even more problematic. I am on Win 10 21H2, but I sympathize with the original poster on this issue. DAW upgrades are far more valuable than OS updates for audio and music, so give the guy who has an earlier version of Windows 10 a break for keeping his stability priorities in order.

Microsoft and Apple are *not* programming updates and revisions to their OSs for our benefit in pro audio and music. The latest and greatest OS may be the worst and the least for audio. Upgrade your OS only if you absolutely have to (or have nothing better to do), and only after you know for certain every single application, plugin and licensing system is fully compatible, and proven to be working reliably in the real world.
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by ianaeillo on Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:20 am
Presonus dropped support for MacOS 10.12 in a point update during the S1 5 lifecycle. It’s happened. I’m staying on Studio One 5 because I am running 10.13 and have plugins that will no longer function on 10.14, which 6 requires.

Until they offer multiple master faders or multiple listen busses, that is. Then I’ll make the switch.

It seems so easy to do compared to all this crazy video and lyric integration. Hopefully soon.

Studio One Pro 5.5, Studio One Pro 6.12, Faderport 16, Faderport Classic (1.45), Metric Halo ULN-8 MKIV, Presonus Quantum, Presonus Quantum 2, Ferrofish Pulse 16, (2) Digimax DP88, Audient ASP800, BLA HD192, 27-Inch Late 2012 3.2GHZ i5 32 GB 1600 DDR3, 2Tb SSD, 10.13.6 High Sierra + 10.14 Mojave + Windows 10
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by Blame Karma on Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:55 am
Studio One's previous limit was W10 1704, not all versions back to 1507. So this is not exactly a new direction.
LTSC and its predecessor LTSB are enterprise versions which for most have been a PITA to get as an individual user. I do not expect any DAW company to support such niche versions. It requires more development resources for all 3-5 users of it?

I have used locked versions of W10 for years, but GPU drivers forced me to move on. I cloned to a new SSD and upgraded that, verified settings, did some benchmarks. Works great. I will never going to get the performance of 1511 or even better, W7x64 back, so I will just stick to what works.

Mac Mini M1 / Ryzen 1700X - W10 / Sphere / 1810c / Apollo Twin
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by PreAl on Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:26 am
Honestly I don't know why people don't do multi boot. I appreciate some may not have the licenses but from what I'm aware it's on a per machine basis. Worth a go to see if it works (try a spare hard drive).

On one SSD spread out over multiple partitions...
I've got Linux for techie stuff.
A windows 11 OS for office software app and development. Graphics and stuff.
A window 11 OS for games and general crap I want to try out (messy install).
A windows 11 OS for DAW and audio apps. Highly optimized.

I first tried windows 11 on my games OS, and then when (after a few weeks) I upgraded the other OS's. I waited a year before I upgraded to Win11 so it would be stable.

I upgraded Ubuntu Linux last week, was a bad move. Stopped booting with memory errors. But nevermind, I switched to my windows OS with True Image and restored Linux in 15 minutes. I then did the upgrade a couple more times in different ways until I fixed the issue (I had to do several restores). Now everything is fine.

Without multiboot and cloned backup facilities things would not be so dandy. It does require quite a bit of work to get it all working nicely but it's worth the effort.

Oh I forgot to say, I've got Catalina running too on the same SSD (Hackintosh) with another copy of studio One. Rarely used but nice to have the option if I need it.

Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).
Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths.
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by Blame Karma on Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:32 am
I prefer one boot drive, but I clone to a new SSD if I need to upgrade the OS. Then I try out whether it works stable and does not show a notable performance drop. Then I commit.
So far, I never needed extra licenses nor did I ever return to a previous installation.

Mac Mini M1 / Ryzen 1700X - W10 / Sphere / 1810c / Apollo Twin
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by garyanderson5 on Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:22 am
jih64 wrote
garyanderson5 wroteSo now i am forced to update Windows as well for the first time ever. My systems 100% solid on 1909 and has been since the day i built it and you wan't me to take a chance on Windows updating and working for a DAW update. Really.


You could do a disk backup image of your system disk and give it a try, if not ok just restore that image, I'm doing that now on what is now my test machine, the one in my signature, I'll see how I go.


Exactly. No sensible person would risk a major OS update without taking precautions. I normally clone my OS drive for this exact reason.

Windows Pro 11 22H2, 13900K, Z790 Aorus Master, 64GB 32x2 G.Skill Trident Z C30 RAM, 2X 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, ADATA XPG SX8200 PRO 2TB, RX6650XT GFX Card, Corsair RM1000X PSU, Studio One Latest Version & Older versions, Baby Face Pro FS. Nektar T6,
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by garyanderson5 on Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:45 am
The reality for none hobbyists is we now need to clone the OS drive at the cost of a drive if you don't have one spare or make a back up image. Only a madman would risk a major OS update without taking precautions. The vast amount of people i know do not allow forced updates and for good reason. Microsoft cause more problems with DAW applications than any other company. There is a good reason people stay on specific OS versions, it's called 100% stability with zero risk. This forced update culture makes no sense what so ever unless it's a fix or a performance upgrade. You can update apps and software all day long on a fixed OS. I always work this way then 5-10 years down the road i build new rig. Rinse and repeat. It works 100% and my system builds are living proof of it. You see people crying on everytime Windows or anyone else push updates out that break their systems and they wonder why it's broke all of a sudden. Now some of us have to risk a major OS change for one app update that offers very little.

Most companies including Microsoft have the decency to warn people about dropping support. You spammed the hell out me with Sphere emails for years and pretty much nothing else as a none Sphere user and couldn't be bothered to notify me about dropping OS support. Presonus sold V6 and after a few months they dropped people right in it by choice because up until 24hrs ago V6 worked fine on Windows 10 prior to 20H1. I repeat it's only Studio One, no other app has forced me to update my OS ever within a 5 year period or during the first few months of it's life cycle. Most app's will at least generate an error code so you can add the patch needed instead of a major heart transplant.

It clearly states you need 20H1 at least on their own page doesn't it. zzzzzzzzzzzzz

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by soupiraille on Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:57 am
It looks like a couple of people here mistake OS support (the fact that an OS company offers technical support to their OS’s users) with OS compatibility (the fact that a software is compatible with a particular version of an OS)… Which leads to lots of trolling and uneducated fanboyism. Don’t fight with those guys, just make your point and move on!
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by Vocalpoint on Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:57 am
garyanderson5 wroteThere is a good reason people stay on specific OS versions, it's called 100% stability with zero risk. This forced update culture makes no sense what so ever unless it's a fix or a performance upgrade.


You do need to look at this from the vendor side as well. Do you really expect Presonus to do full Q&A on every version of Studio One against every version of Windows 10 from 1507 to now and declare them all fully supported when even Microsoft will not?

This is not Presonus purposely ruining someone's day. If you want to hold somebody's feet to the fire - might be time to take Microsoft to task.

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by PreAl on Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:07 am
garyanderson5 wroteThe reality for none hobbyists is we now need to clone the OS drive at the cost of a drive if you don't have one spare or make a back up image.


Now? This had always been the case.

garyanderson5 wroteOnly a madman would risk a major OS update without taking precautions.


Exactly. If you aren't regularly backing up to an external hard drive you've got to be crazy. Or pay the price when your hard drive/SSD fails or something else.

garyanderson5 wroteThe vast amount of people i know do not allow forced updates and for good reason.


Maybe the people you know. But overwhelmingly people stick with the defaults when they use Windows, which is around 1.4 billion. I don't know that many people.

garyanderson5 wroteMicrosoft cause more problems with DAW applications than any other company.


Microsoft causes this do they? Care to back up your comments? But I thought this was Presonus's fault?

garyanderson5 wroteThere is a good reason people stay on specific OS versions, it's called 100% stability with zero risk. This forced update culture makes no sense what so ever unless it's a fix or a performance upgrade. You can update apps and software all day long on a fixed OS.


Sorry but this comment is laughable. If you are updating your applications then you should be updating the OS libraries beside it or risk compatibly and stability, if your libraries get out of sync, then there could be issues. New or updated applications require new dependencies. In other words you need to update often.

Now if you want 100% stability then change nothing, do not update your apps ever. Do not update the OS ever. Take your PC off the internet, and for good measure back up.

If you want to use the latest software then you must be updating everything else on your OS on a regular basis, and backing up. That is how the software is developed and tested, it is tested in the latest platforms and rarely on the earliest.

garyanderson5 wroteI always work this way then 5-10 years down the road i build new rig. Rinse and repeat. It works 100% and my system builds are living proof of it.


Cool..so what is the reason for this post then?

garyanderson5 wroteYou see people crying on everytime Windows or anyone else push updates out that break their systems and they wonder why it's broke all of a sudden. Now some of us have to risk a major OS change for one app update that offers very little.


Rarely happens nowadays. This isn't 1991. It's not that it doesn't happen, but do you ever wonder what backup and rollback is for?

garyanderson5 wroteMost companies including Microsoft have the decency to warn people about dropping support.


Yup, and don't expect vendors to support OS's that M$ doesn't support.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifec ... me-and-pro

garyanderson5 wroteMost app's will at least generate an error code so you can add the patch needed instead of a major heart transplant.


What does this even mean?
You know what to do. Either you do it or you don't do it.

Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).
Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths.
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by garyanderson5 on Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:18 am
Vocalpoint wrote
garyanderson5 wroteThere is a good reason people stay on specific OS versions, it's called 100% stability with zero risk. This forced update culture makes no sense what so ever unless it's a fix or a performance upgrade.


You do need to look at this from the vendor side as well. Do you really expect Presonus to do full Q&A on every version of Studio One against every version of Windows 10 from 1507 to now and declare them all fully supported when even Microsoft will not?

This is not Presonus purposely ruining someone's day. If you want to hold somebody's feet to the fire - might be time to take Microsoft to task.

VP


I 100% agree VP. The reallity is we have gone from do not update to WIN11 we do not support it while closing down previous Windows versions limiting the OS support to specific revisions. Microsfot didn't do that Presonus did. Where at a stage now where people will skip any WIN10 updates and jump to 11. That is if WIN11 works out because Microsoft are famous for making a good OS then a complete mess of an OS wich is why i can't fathom why a company would restrict their own platform to a couple of revisions. Has anyone even received an email from Presonus about WIN11 and it's safe to use? That's my point we have had zero communication at all and i ain't no beta tester. I thought they already had a beta testing team. Steinberg had the decency to notify me of changes regarding to OS revisions. Presonus couldn't be bothered it seems.

Windows Pro 11 22H2, 13900K, Z790 Aorus Master, 64GB 32x2 G.Skill Trident Z C30 RAM, 2X 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, ADATA XPG SX8200 PRO 2TB, RX6650XT GFX Card, Corsair RM1000X PSU, Studio One Latest Version & Older versions, Baby Face Pro FS. Nektar T6,
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by PreAl on Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:39 am
Anyway sorry to repeat myself.

1) If you want to use the latest apps then you need to be updating regularly your OS and patches via windows update.

2) Otherwise take your machine off the internet and don't ever install anything ever again until you need to, then see (1). Or keep it on the internet, just make sure you install the security updates. If no more security updates are available then take it off.

3) Backup and clone your hard drive regularly. Test your installations if necessary with dual boot windows (if you want to go the extra mile).

That is a reality whether you like it or not, there is only so much milage with installing the latest software and not updating your OS. The longer you leave it the more chance of something going wrong (it is not the other way around, those days are over).

If you reach the end of the road stick with what you have or do some computer maintenance. No use complaining.

Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb.
Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental).
Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths.
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by garyanderson5 on Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:59 am
It was a simple fix from a Microsoft KB file that was needed for people that had updates turned off. You didn't need to update your OS at all like we have to now. A simple fix would of been enough instead of forcing the issue. Anyway i am done the proof is there Presonus can accommodate people if they want to, they chose not to this time.

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by Vocalpoint on Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:04 am
garyanderson5 wroteHas anyone even received an email from Presonus about WIN11 and it's safe to use? That's my point we have had zero communication at all and i ain't no beta tester.


No one is asking/forcing/demanding any of us to be a beta tester (me for certain)

I work in a large dev shop and one of the things I have learned over many years is if a specific OS is clearly stated as "supported" within the official published system specs for an app - then I instantly have reasonable faith that the OS has been QA'd and is fully supported.

For S1 v6 - this is very clearly stated on the Presonus site:

2023-03-23_07-55-20.png


I have also learned (without question) that it is on the user to determine whether what they are running back in the shop - is compatible to what's on offer. AKA - does my environment line up with the published specs for this app?

If any of us are expecting Presonus (or any vendor) to hold our hands and gently remind us (Via email) what OS are supported - prepare to be disappointed.

I know that this burns you - but a quick look on the Presonus site at 9:00am yesterday (pre 6.1 announcement) could have easily saved you a ton of time and effort here.

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by Blame Karma on Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:19 am
garyanderson5 wroteIt was a simple fix from a Microsoft KB file that was needed for people that had updates turned off. You didn't need to update your OS at all like we have to now. A simple fix would of been enough instead of forcing the issue. Anyway i am done the proof is there Presonus can accommodate people if they want to, they chose not to this time.

1. that is a MS topic, not a Presonus topic.
2. I will repeat myself: Studio One's previous limit was W10 1704. That didn't seem to bother anyone.

But let's face it: 36 posts with 2 people complaining about this. One uses a locked system, the other an old enterprise edition (for valid reasons, I don't argue against that). Do you really expect a company to dedicate resources for such niche situations? The current R&D and support covers 11 OS versions, if you see W11 as a single one. Do not underestimate the amount of users who ask for support for an unsupported OS if they had the chance to install on it.

Mac Mini M1 / Ryzen 1700X - W10 / Sphere / 1810c / Apollo Twin
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by Vocalpoint on Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:39 am
Blame Karma wrote[The current R&D and support covers 11 OS versions, if you see W11 as a single one. Do not underestimate the amount of users who ask for support for an unsupported OS if they had the chance to install on it.


One more takewawayfrom this thread - those on Windows 11 should also take note.

Whatever you are running today - do not get too attached to it as it is almost certain it will run its course as well (circa Studio One v7)

Right now, there are only two editions - both supported:


Version 22H2 Support End Date: Oct 8, 2024
Version 21H2 Support End Date: Oct 10, 2023

But these will age out as the world moves on.

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by Blame Karma on Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:49 am
Well, Windows 12 has already leaked, so you can count on that. This also implies that Microsoft is leaving its WAAS strategy and long term update locks as we discuss here may not be necessary anymore.

Mac Mini M1 / Ryzen 1700X - W10 / Sphere / 1810c / Apollo Twin

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