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I need any suggestions folks may have on my method of monitoring, stem creation and analog pass.
So my basic setup is as follows:
"Box 1" = 32 channel setup - Orion 32 channel interface ADDA>Studio one DAW>Folcrom 16 Analog mixer>2 bus Analog pass>"Box 2" = Pure 2 Interface ADDA>Samplitude DAW>print.
I have a Dangerous ST for Control Room monitoring and switching.
I use an 8 channel Hear System monitor system providing 8 channels to talent for personal mixing choices.

I've created a template containing 8 stereo buses (stems) and 8 stereo cue mixes. This utilizes my total output matrix with 1-16 for the stem (bus) outputs to my 16 channel Folcrom analog summing mixer. The remaining 16 are used for cue mixes.

I use the patchbay to mult the 8 cue mixes off to my monitor system.

This is all theory as I haven't put this setup through it's paces yet and am wondering if others might have a more elegant or efficient way of doing this? Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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by johnpasquarelli1 on Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:08 pm
So no takers huh?
I hope someone can perhaps tell me if they are setup for analog summing with stems and how you do a monitor mix for talent?
Any response would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John
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by Jemusic on Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:36 pm
That all looks good. You have got the right hardware to setup what you want. At least most of it.

I would start by feeding the Orion into the Folcrom passive mixer. Through a patch-bay. The Passive mixer needs makeup gain after it though. What do you have in mind there? 35 - 40 db to be precise. A MIc preamp is recommended by them. A nice one maybe. Mix standard nice. One with some real mojo and pristine-ness at the same time. This is another major expense. Consider a compressor here at this point too.

Another option here is to invest in say a pristine line amplifier to provide the 35 dB of just pure clean gain. The 4 other inputs could be used to return two extra stereo buses into your mix. Something like this:

https://vintageking.com/avedis-audio-electronics-kp6

But then it would be nice to have a nice Mic Pre with a real sound vibe to it so you can run some of your mixes through that as an option.

I would be using all the digital outputs on the Orion to get from your computer to a digital mixer if you end up using one. Or a digital patch system. eg ADAT patching. And SPDIF patching.

The analog outs should be on a patch-bay somewhere too so you can either send them to the Folcrom or a monitor system or both at the same time.

In Studio One complex mixes can be scaled down to a number of buses. Maybe 8 stereo as you say. Then they can be easily sent out to the Orion that way.

I don't believe you need a second DAW either to record any final analog summing mixes. They get fed back into a stereo track on your main computer running the mix session. The mix ends up right inside your session where it needs to be actually. You just need some decent A to D on the way back in. Which the Orion provides. This allows you to instantly compare the final mix in solo to the entire session running live. They should sound identical.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by johnpasquarelli1 on Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:24 am
Thanks so much for the reply!
I apologize for not being more detailed in my original post.

Yes the Folcrom is patched through the bay and the 2 bus output goes through 2 Millennia HV35's. I also have a Lexicon reverb unit, 2 Distressors, a UA1176LN, and a UA 2 La 2-2 along with multiple colors of pres I can substitute for the clean Millennia's for different flavors. Everything is in the patchbay. All analog insa'a and outsa's, including the the HEAR monitor system.

I hear ya on not needing a second Box yet I like using the analog pass between the 2 for potential tweaking, FX and coloring of the 2 bus and not worying about round-tripping potential issues regarding sample rate conversion and other potential anomalies.

I go into the Pure 2 ADA and can monitor, through the ST my DAW 1, 2 bus from the Folcrom, as well as Daw 2 output with a quick click of the ST inputs, rapidly on the fly. It aids my decision making. I think I recognize the pluses and minuses of this setup and for now I'm preferring the 2 Box arrangement. In time this may change.

Thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions. It's very validating having someone to bounce this off of. I just wanted to be sure there wasn't a work flow I might be missing that could be more efficient or productive.
Thanks again Jemusic
John
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by razorwit on Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:28 am
Hi John,
I actually do something very similar, I just don't use a second DAW. My setup is an RME MADI card feeding an Lynx Aurora and an Orion32. Like you, I go to an analog stage for summing and fx, in my case I'm feeding 16 channels to an SSL X-Rack with a bus comp and stereo EQ (along with whatever else I feel like putting in that chain). Also like you, I'm feeding 16 channels to a Hear Back Pro.

So, short version - your setup should work just fine. Like jemusic, I'd question the need for that second DAW, but it sounds like you have a workflow you like, so I totally get that. Just keep in mind if you did want to route back to a "Print" track in S1 it's totally do-able and something that I do all the time.

Only other thing I'd suggest - I'm not sure what flavor input for the Hear system you got, but one thing that really saved some analog output channels was feeding my Hearback Pro from ADAT. The Orion has ADAT outs on it, and the Hear back Pros will take ADAT interface cards. My Orion path looks like this:

RME MADI 1-48 -> Orion32 -> ADAT (channels 33 - 48) -> Hear Back (1-32 are analog outs going various other places).

I have channels 15/16 linked on the Hear Back for the cue mix, and the other 14 get used for personal monitors.

Other than that, looks like a pretty cool rig. If you run into any problems feel free and hit me up and I'll help if I can.

Dean

Dean Winter
Windows 10, RME HDSPe MADI fx -> Lynx Aurora and Antelope Orion,
Mics, compressors, guitars and stuff.
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by SwitchBack on Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:48 am
Yeah, analog patch bays are the best way to go. Signals passing through several analog units shouldn't pass the digital converters more than absolutely necessary :)
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by johnpasquarelli1 on Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:49 am
Hey guys, both posts are reassuring!
Razorwit, your system is larger than mine but certainly similar in most ways. I have the old Hear system and not the pro so only 8 channels. I truely can't remember the output options but will check out the ADAT. I've considered the pro system but for now, funds are such that I need to start small until I can get my feet under me if ya know what I mean.
Sounds like you have a killer setup!

I agree Switchback about the analog setup.. Cognitively it seems more prudent to avoid too many passes through the interface and time will tell. Chris and Bos over at ROG influenced me with the 2 Box concept I've adopted and it does seem natural to my workflow. I'm old (72) and cut my musical teeth with analog for years doing mostly gigging as a guitar player (weekend warrior) and sound reinforcement with minimal studio engineering. After 15 years of hard work I have "retired" from the day gig and am finishing the studio build (about 1500 sq. ft.). My roots are in analog so I'm more comfortable right now with the 2 Box setup.

I'm real happy to get good feedback from you guys and will be back with more questions I'm sure. I really am growing fond of S1. I had Nuendo 4 (my 1st DAW) and 2 Lynx Aurora 16's with AES16e linked cards) since 2008 to dabble with during studio construction. My revamps are nearly complete, substituting the Lynx system with the Orion and decided to put my interfaces in the machine room with the computers so it's been a major chore recabling and building DB25's. Nearly done and I'm anxious to fire up the Orion. I had switched to a new computer build from a Mac tower to a an AMD Razor Creator with an AMD 5059 CPU and getting help with final slot allocation and setup there for DAW 1 (S1). I have a cool little HP running the "mastering" rig (Box 2 with Samplitude). Wish me luck!
Later...

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