It is. A long time ago, it was my weapon of choice, but it's gotten so convoluted and difficult. Back in the day, it was an excellent alternative to some of the insanity that was "other" hosts, but I never even think about it anymore.

Actually, the only host I've used regularly that was just a disaster all the time was Sonar. Man, I'm glad those days are over (and no, I don't care about bandcamp )

But I digress, back to GR ......

Real good direction to follow to see what happens Bob.

In the course of things I'll try and shake out BlueCat Audio's Axiom. I'll report back with that. It will take a little time, but we can drop back here to see how things stack up (did I just say stack?).
Good thread.

If results point a little more against GRig6 misbehaving, then Bob has more to go on that we can all learn from. Its entirely on the shelf that some DAW's may or may not play nicely when holding effects controller mappings. Thanks JohnBW for your points as well. I wouldn't have even thought to try checking in standalone, but it could tie in to why cc recall doesn't happen elsewhere.

Let's put our axe to the grindstone.

Another update after a couple of Qs from NI:

Running GR6 stand-alone works perfectly. Assigned controls are stored with the preset and recall/function properly on subsequent launches.

When then loaded into SO6, the preset created stand-alone loads and recalls the assignments - BUT the UI controls are unresponsive to their corresponding hardware controls. Here's the screwed up bit; relearning the same hardware control not only displays the same controller data, but will start functioning properly.

I would suspect the problem to have something to do with the Ext Device config if it weren't for the fact that things start working again with a re-learn cycle. I'll delete the controller and add it back in anyway. You never know.

SO5-latest gives the same, incorrect results.

Hopefully the convo with NI will progress at a reasonable pace.

BobF wroteAnother update after a couple of Qs from NI:

Running GR6 stand-alone works perfectly. Assigned controls are stored with the preset and recall/function properly on subsequent launches.

When then loaded into SO6, the preset created stand-alone loads and recalls the assignments - BUT the UI controls are unresponsive to their corresponding hardware controls. Here's the screwed up bit; relearning the same hardware control not only displays the same controller data, but will start functioning properly.

I would suspect the problem to have something to do with the Ext Device config if it weren't for the fact that things start working again with a re-learn cycle. I'll delete the controller and add it back in anyway. You never know.

SO5-latest gives the same, incorrect results.

Hopefully the convo with NI will progress at a reasonable pace.

I just recalled another recent thread after you mentioned the plugin UI being unresponsive to the hardware controls. It was reported by @reggie1979beatz where he had a similar issue in Studio One between his controller and Analog Lab. But that may be entirely different because he was using Control Link. In that case the Control Link knob would shadow his hardware, but the corresponding control in the plugin UI wasn't responding. Or something to that effect...

Another case where it worked fine with standalone mode though...

JohnBW wrote

BobF wroteAnother update after a couple of Qs from NI:

Running GR6 stand-alone works perfectly. Assigned controls are stored with the preset and recall/function properly on subsequent launches.

When then loaded into SO6, the preset created stand-alone loads and recalls the assignments - BUT the UI controls are unresponsive to their corresponding hardware controls. Here's the screwed up bit; relearning the same hardware control not only displays the same controller data, but will start functioning properly.

I would suspect the problem to have something to do with the Ext Device config if it weren't for the fact that things start working again with a re-learn cycle. I'll delete the controller and add it back in anyway. You never know.

SO5-latest gives the same, incorrect results.

Hopefully the convo with NI will progress at a reasonable pace.

I just recalled another recent thread after you mentioned the plugin UI being unresponsive to the hardware controls. It was reported by @reggie1979beatz where he had a similar issue in Studio One between his controller and Analog Lab. But that may be entirely different because he was using Control Link. In that case the Control Link knob would shadow his hardware, but the corresponding control in the plugin UI wasn't responding. Or something to that effect...

Another case where it worked fine with standalone mode though...

Interesting. I originally had the XT Mini split. Meaning the bottom row of buttons and the fader were learned in Control Link (Global) and assigned to transport functions, save and such, with the fader assigned to LB Volume. None of the CL assigned controls ever failed to function. Not even once. It's the knobs that were left out of CL that have problems.

I have since completely deleted the device and recreated it without CL assignments to if such a config might cause problems. Everything is still the same so I'll be redoing those.

I wish I had another MK1 MOD0 MIDI controller try. Oh well. I'm getting bored with this.

1st test - Global mapping - focus dissengaged (unhighlighted)

Controller - Atom SQ
GRig Preset: Deep Gates

This showed the same issues you saw Bob, where everything worked until I opened the same GRig6 preset in a new song, all mapped functions when reloaded were lost.

2nd test - Focus mapping - Focus engaged (highlighted) This worked and also when opened in a new song, instrument track created, All mapped parameters functioned. I them changed parameters and saved with a new name. Both stored settings new and old could be loaded in both new and old songs.

Notes:
I called up the GRig6 presets using Studio One's Save and Load track presets which worked flawlessly. I also tried loading right from the opened effects window, and no issues with Focus mapping.

All instances, I used the Control Link because it's just so easy to select and drag parameters to be mapped. Mapped controls were all mixed parameters from each rack module.

I saved the Atom SQ preset, though it never changed its preset number. As a check though, with both Global and Focus modes I tried to change the preset to see if any return of the map would happen. With Global, the preset was just never there (available). With Focus mode, the preset was always available. I just never had to resort to using it, so it wasn't necessary or altered the test. Just saying.

Tomorrow, I'll try with Axiom, and probably Scuffam.

Lokeyfly wrote1st test - Global mapping - focus dissengaged (unhighlighted)

Controller - Atom SQ
GRig Preset: Deep Gates

This showed the same issues you saw Bob, where everything worked until I opened the same GRig6 preset in a new song, all mapped functions when reloaded were lost.

2nd test - Focus mapping - Focus engaged (highlighted) This worked and also when opened in a new song, instrument track created, All mapped parameters functioned. I them changed parameters and saved with a new name. Both stored settings new and old could be loaded in both new and old songs.

Notes:
I called up the GRig6 presets using Studio One's Save and Load track presets which worked flawlessly. I also tried loading right from the opened effects window, and no issues with Focus mapping.

All instances, I used the Control Link because it's just so easy to select and drag parameters to be mapped. Mapped controls were all mixed parameters from each rack module.

I saved the Atom SQ preset, though it never changed its preset number. As a check though, with both Global and Focus modes I tried to change the preset to see if any return of the map would happen. With Global, the preset was just never there (available). With Focus mode, the preset was always available. I just never had to resort to using it, so it wasn't necessary or altered the test. Just saying.

Tomorrow, I'll try with Axiom, and probably Scuffam.

Thanks for adding to the pool's deep end

I'll try this myself, but just to be to be clear, you're able to map component controls via CL? For example, you're able to have SQ Knob1 control different parms in different presets and they all work fine later?

BobF wrote: "...... just to be to be clear, you're able to map component controls via CL? For example, you're able to have SQ Knob1 control different parms in different presets and they all work fine later?"

Yes, I was able to map any controls with CL. Simply first click the desired parameter to map, then CL notes the name of the selection. Then drag the hand down to your map control window to the desired knob/ button. So for example an HPF might go to knob#1, an LPF to knob#2 of the EQ, a reverb volume on a different component of the same preset like reverb Volume to knob#3, etc. That being the case from the same GRig6 preset. To be further clear, Not with other presets or other plugins from the same single map


Global and Focus modes are detailed here if it helps in an old S1v3 Presonus link (barring any unforseen changes, but it's still posted by Presonus).

https://support.presonus.com/hc/en-us/articles/210050323-Studio-One-3-Global-and-Focus-MIDI-Mapping

Per article: "Global Mapping
With Global mapping, hardware and software controls maintain a one-to-one relationship, where a single hardware control is linked directly to a single software control. Some controls, such as Track fader, pan, and mute, can only be mapped globally. To map a plug-in control globally, be sure Focus is disengaged in the plug-in window by clicking on the Focus button for the Keyboard you are using, so that it is no longer highlighted."


Focus Mapping
While only one software control can be manipulated at a time by a single hardware control, a hardware control can be linked to any number of software controls, based on context, using Focus mapping. For instance, a single hardware knob could control the release of a Gate plug-in, or the Gain of a distortion plug-in, or any number of other parameters, depending on which plug-in is in Focus.

The process of Focus mapping is identical to Global mapping, with one critical difference. To see this difference, open the interface for any virtual instrument or effect. By default, all virtual instruments and effects open in Focus mode, and the Focus button in the plug-in window’s toolbar is highlighted. The Focus button displays the name of the related Keyboard.

Only one plug-in window can be in Focus at any time. Click on the Focus button to enable Focus in any open plug-in window.

When a parameter has been mapped in Focus, the link icon used in the parameter window is different from the icon used when a parameter is mapped globally.

Control maps only apply to the plug-in window that is in Focus. For instance, a hardware knob might be linked to a software knob in an EQ plug-in that is in Focus. When another plug-in is brought into Focus, the hardware knob no longer affects the software knob in the EQ, and it is possible to link this hardware knob to a different control for the plug-in that is in Focus.

In this way, Focus mapping allows different control maps to be made for each plug-in, using the same hardware controls for each. .............

There's more, but the above covers the differences pretty well.

I get Global/Local focus. My question is with regard to different components inside the plug. Specifically, one preset that uses amp model (X) which has Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble assigned to SQ Knobs 1 - 4. Another preset uses amp model (Y) with Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble mapped to the same (or different) SQ Knobs.

Same plug-in, but different components inside each of the plug's presets, with the SQ assignments following preset changes.

This is what I've never been able to make work. I just tried this again without success. I hope I'm missing something ...

BobF wroteI get Global/Local focus. My question is with regard to different components inside the plug. Specifically, one preset that uses amp model (X) which has Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble assigned to SQ Knobs 1 - 4. Another preset uses amp model (Y) with Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble mapped to the same (or different) SQ Knobs.

Same plug-in, but different components inside each of the plug's presets, with the SQ assignments following preset changes.

This is what I've never been able to make work. I just tried this again without success. I hope I'm missing something ...

I think I see what may be happening in this instance. Some plugins can save MIDI Learn CC control mapping either as "Global", which will be applied to any preset, or by "Preset" only.

It appears that GR 6 defaults to the preset only save mode. A good example of a synth plugin that offers you a choice is KV331 SynthMaster. It's up to the developer, I presume.

JohnBW wrote

BobF wroteI get Global/Local focus. My question is with regard to different components inside the plug. Specifically, one preset that uses amp model (X) which has Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble assigned to SQ Knobs 1 - 4. Another preset uses amp model (Y) with Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble mapped to the same (or different) SQ Knobs.

Same plug-in, but different components inside each of the plug's presets, with the SQ assignments following preset changes.

This is what I've never been able to make work. I just tried this again without success. I hope I'm missing something ...

I think I see what may be happening in this instance. Some plugins can save MIDI Learn CC control mapping either as "Global", which will be applied to any preset, or by "Preset" only.

It appears that GR 6 defaults to the preset only save mode. A good example of a synth plugin that offers you a choice is KV331 SynthMaster. It's up to the developer, I presume.

Guitar rig has both. The global controls for the plug itself, and the preset level which is everything else; the things that would potentially change preset to preset.

What Control Link sees is the parameters exposed by GR for automation.

BobF wrote:" Specifically, one preset that uses amp model (X) which has Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble assigned to SQ Knobs 1 - 4. Another preset uses amp model (Y) with Volume, Bass, Middle, Treble mapped to the same (or different) SQ Knobs.

Same plug-in, but different components inside each of the plug's presets, with the SQ assignments following preset changes."

That can be the next check. In my test, I ran the preset "Deep Gates" from GRig6. So any selections within that preset were available via CL.

I started to detail not using other presets or other plugins, but I admittedly hadn't had my coffee yet.

I did note in the test that different maps could be recalled with different settings. Only they were one at a time. Not combined.

As to the SQ "following the preset changes", that's not going to happen. It will follow what is in focus, not active preset changes.

Looking at your latest response to John now.

BobF wroteGuitar rig has both. The global controls for the plug itself, and the preset level which is everything else; the things that would potentially change preset to preset.

What Control Link sees is the parameters exposed by GR for automation.

I gotcha. The example that I gave was for a virtual instrument where all controls are actually global, but the MIDI learn parameter can be learned and remembered either globally for all presets, or just for the current preset instance.

In that case, the plugin UI controls are fixed and don't change from preset to preset because it's not a modular architecture which GR6 has, with many different components each with a unique control layout.

So I can see that's a whole deeper layer in GR 6 that is highly variable as far as control layouts per component, so that would make remembering component controls only possible by saving them with the preset. But that's the part that's still got me scratching my head though... if you save the GR6 preset, then the mapping should be remembered in all cases where the preset is recalled.

JohnBW wrote

BobF wroteGuitar rig has both. The global controls for the plug itself, and the preset level which is everything else; the things that would potentially change preset to preset.

What Control Link sees is the parameters exposed by GR for automation.

I gotcha. The example that I gave was for a virtual instrument where all controls are actually global, but the MIDI learn parameter can be learned and remembered either globally for all presets, or just for the current preset instance.

In that case, the plugin UI controls are fixed and don't change from preset to preset because it's not a modular architecture which GR6 has, with many different components each with a unique control layout.

So I can see that's a whole deeper layer in GR 6 that is highly variable as far as control layouts per component, so that would make remembering component controls only possible by saving them with the preset. But that's the part that's still got me scratching my head though... if you save the GR6 preset, then the mapping should be remembered in all cases where the preset is recalled.

Sorry for the lengthy step-wise presentation. This is as much for my benefit as anyone else's

It's even stranger than just not remembering:
- Run GR6 stand-alone, create a preset that includes learned MIDI controls.
- Close GR6, run SO6 and load GR6 in an audio track/channel and Inst Track pointed to the GR6 instance
- Open the preset that was created while running GR6 stand-alone
- Turn a controller knob that was mapped to the GR6 amp Volume control
- Observe that nothing happens
- Right-click the Volume control, note that the appropriate CC is shown as mapped
- Select Learn MIDI, turn the same hardware knob
- This control is now responsive again
- Right-click the control, note that the assigned CC is the exact same as was previously assigned, but now it works

- Now create and save a new preset with learned MIDI assignments.
- Select the GR6 audio and Inst tracks, save as a track preset
- Close the song
- Create a new song
- Add GR6 audio and Inst tracks as before (not from the template)
- Load the GR6 preset. Note that none of the learned MIDI assignment are there
- Create a new track using the track template. Select GR6 as the output of the Inst Track as the Track Preset doesn't recreate this.
- Note that the MIDI assignments are intact AND functional
- Close SO6
- Open GR6 stand-alone and load the preset created while plugged into SO6
- Note that NONE of the MIDI assignments are there

BobF wrote
Sorry for the lengthy step-wise presentation. This is as much for my benefit as anyone else's

It's even stranger than just not remembering:
- Run GR6 stand-alone, create a preset that includes learned MIDI controls.
- Close GR6, run SO6 and load GR6 in an audio track/channel and Inst Track pointed to the GR6 instance
- Open the preset that was created while running GR6 stand-alone
- Turn a controller knob that was mapped to the GR6 amp Volume control
- Observe that nothing happens
- Right-click the Volume control, note that the appropriate CC is shown as mapped
- Select Learn MIDI, turn the same hardware knob
- This control is now responsive again
- Right-click the control, note that the assigned CC is the exact same as was previously assigned, but now it works

I had gotten that far with SO5 and thought it was strange. I don't have SO6 yet, so no track presets to try here.

Are there any other plugins that you are aware of that behave like this? I'm tempted to poke around here and look when I get a chance...

JohnBW wrote

BobF wrote
Sorry for the lengthy step-wise presentation. This is as much for my benefit as anyone else's

It's even stranger than just not remembering:
- Run GR6 stand-alone, create a preset that includes learned MIDI controls.
- Close GR6, run SO6 and load GR6 in an audio track/channel and Inst Track pointed to the GR6 instance
- Open the preset that was created while running GR6 stand-alone
- Turn a controller knob that was mapped to the GR6 amp Volume control
- Observe that nothing happens
- Right-click the Volume control, note that the appropriate CC is shown as mapped
- Select Learn MIDI, turn the same hardware knob
- This control is now responsive again
- Right-click the control, note that the assigned CC is the exact same as was previously assigned, but now it works

I had gotten that far with SO5 and thought it was strange. I don't have SO6 yet, so no track presets to try here.

Are there any other plugins that you are aware of that behave like this? I'm tempted to poke around here and look when I get a chance...

I have AmpliTube, but I can't read the new UI

I'll give GTR and PRS models (Waves) a try.

The NI stuff comes to mind, but I have a KKS61S2, so no need for generic MIDI control. I'll see if I have some others that aren't guitar-centric.

Like the PM says, there are BAZILLIONS of choices.

Overloud TH-U is great, but I kinda got addicted to Nimbrini during BF.

And even if you still use GR6, strongly consider this IR:

https://lancasteraudio.com/shop/impulse ... ll-1960-a/ No matter what music you do, it's big and meaty and pretty 3D to my ears. I use it for everything (except the occasional fender twin)

The standalone part I won't check. Sounds like that's already verified.

I'm pretty good with CL and how Focus mode retrieves the presets from a new song.
Of course standing by to watch developments. 👍

Mostly how I use MIDI mapping is with channel strips, EQ's, and synths. yeah, I definately have multiple effects processing on at a time for an effects rack, but I haven't needed to control multiple knobs or macros in any way for guitar.

But all good. Keep rockn' it.
I will check Axiom tomorrow just to verify retrieving some of the presets on the fly.
Peace, out.