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Well, after a year and half of so far so good, I have my first Win10 Update weird experience -- and S1 is the affected program!

After a Win10 Update, I clicked on a song in Recent Files ... and darned if an expired trial version of Cubase 12 didn't try to open up! Like three Steinberg parts of the program tried to open.

Okay, so the natural first troubleshooting step was to Uninstall the Cubase 12 Demo (and all its many parts, at least the parts I was able to hunt down).

Unfortunately, when I again tried to open S1 songs in Recent Files, S1 froze as it was trying to locate all the files, and I had to End Task in Task Manager.

Presently, I am able to create a New Song, and play around; however, when I save the song, close S1, reopen S1, and try to play the song, it's intermittent whether it will open again. Same with other songs. Sometimes I can open them, most of the time I have to End Task in Task Manager cause the entire program froze. Maybe I can open one or two songs, then the third won't open and freezes S1.

Something is interfering with my ability to open songs.

Let the troubleshooting begin!

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by Vocalpoint on Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:30 pm
MisterE wroteWell, after a year and half of so far so good, I have my first Win10 Update weird experience -- and S1 is the affected program!

After a Win10 Update, I clicked on a song in Recent Files ... and darned if an expired trial version of Cubase 12 didn't try to open up! Like three Steinberg parts of the program tried to open.

Okay, so the natural first troubleshooting step was to Uninstall the Cubase 12 Demo (and all its many parts, at least the parts I was able to hunt down).

Unfortunately, when I again tried to open S1 songs in Recent Files, S1 froze as it was trying to locate all the files, and I had to End Task in Task Manager.

Presently, I am able to create a New Song, and play around; however, when I save the song, close S1, reopen S1, and try to play the song, it's intermittent whether it will open again. Same with other songs. Sometimes I can open them, most of the time I have to End Task in Task Manager cause the entire program froze. Maybe I can open one or two songs, then the third won't open and freezes S1.

Something is interfering with my ability to open songs. Let the troubleshooting begin!


Firstly - what "update" are you talking about for WIndows. If it was 22H2 - that was tiny in terms of any changes. That should not cause any issues at all.

Secondly - to my knowledge - any Studio One Song File has a very unique and specific file extension (*.song) that Cubase has no knowledge of. Nor could it open an S1 file every if it did recognize that song extension.

Third - where are you saving your song files? Portable/external drive? Another internal drive? The network?

This sounds more like a file system issue of some sort than something S1 is doing.

Please expand a bit more on what's really going on over there.

Cheers

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by MisterE on Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:24 pm
Vocalpoint wrote
Firstly - what "update" are you talking about for WIndows. If it was 22H2 - that was tiny in terms of any changes. That should not cause any issues at all.

Secondly - to my knowledge - any Studio One Song File has a very unique and specific file extension (*.song) that Cubase has no knowledge of. Nor could it open an S1 file every if it did recognize that song extension.

Third - where are you saving your song files? Portable/external drive? Another internal drive? The network?

This sounds more like a file system issue of some sort than something S1 is doing.

Please expand a bit more on what's really going on over there.

Cheers


VP

1) Not so much any major Win10 update, just what accumulates every 35 days since I have updates on maximum delay. I can assure you S1 songs opened normally before that update, and no strange previous behavior with invoking Cubase instead of S1 even when my Cubase demo was active.

2)Cannot disagree with your statement about file extensions, and certainly agree it's highly unusual that clicking a S1 song in Recent Files would invoke Cubase to open ... but that's why I'm posting, cause it's kinda inexplicable. But I can assure you I'm describing exactly what I saw. In any event, Cubase is uninstalled, it's not coming up anymore.

3) S1 songs are stored on an Audio partition of my lone SSD, same as they have been, no changes.

btw trying to open an S1 song from Windows File Explorer instead of Recent Files has the same result: S1 "not responding" necessitating ending task.

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by Lokeyfly on Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:20 am
VP's questions all good. Just adding this.


MisterE wrote: "Okay, so the natural first troubleshooting step was to Uninstall the Cubase 12 Demo (and all its many parts, at least the parts I was able to hunt down)."


I'm wondering if when you uninstalled the Cubase demo, you didn't intentionally or not, remove a plugin or driver that your Studio One song(s) was using.

Just a roundabout suggestion, on the tail end of my using S1v5x, some songs were taking ridiculously long to load. I would open the Task Manager and see S1 showing no response (yet still show busy percentage activity). Instead of ending task which I did several times myself, I'd simply instead close the Task Manager and in about twenty seconds, S1 would then open the song.

So it may help to try that to sort of shake the tree.
Then once opened, perform some renders, and locate potential "hanger" plugs. Then Save As to not overwrite the file and see if that helps. It did with me.

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by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:31 am
Lokeyfly wroteVP's questions all good. Just adding this.


MisterE wrote: "Okay, so the natural first troubleshooting step was to Uninstall the Cubase 12 Demo (and all its many parts, at least the parts I was able to hunt down)."


I'm wondering if when you uninstalled the Cubase demo, you didn't intentionally or not, remove a plugin or driver that your Studio One song(s) was using.

Just a roundabout suggestion, on the tail end of my using S1v5x, some songs were taking ridiculously long to load. I would open the Task Manager and see S1 showing no response (yet still show busy percentage activity). Instead of ending task which I did several times myself, I'd simply instead close the Task Manager and in about twenty seconds, S1 would then open the song.

So it may help to try that to sort of shake the tree.
Then once opened, perform some renders, and locate potential "hanger" plugs. Then Save As to not overwrite the file and see if that helps. It did with me.

Or maybe the Cubase demo somehow set itself up as a "default audio program" or something along those lines?

I'll try giving S1 5.2 extra long to load songs past the point I'd think they'd never load as you suggest.

I use very few plugins for the simple reason that I haven't been seriously recording lately, just preparing to do so when a few other things in my life stop hogging my attention. But I know those plugs can be pesky, so I'll try a render as you suggest as well.

I'm also thinking of installing the last V5 version and seeing if that makes any difference or perhaps the V6 demo. There's nothing I've been doing in 5.2 that's life and death, just a bunch of experiments at this point.

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by Lokeyfly on Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:52 am
I've been tempted as well to trial Cubase, just because I had such a long standing run with it, even from its inception. Only for all too many reasons I'm running as lean a system as I can in a DAW and most useful pkugins. I can't emphasize that enough, but I also understand the need to get there is important to each users own needs. I'm just saying to maybe cut down on exploring and keep the shop ready for action.

That said, you still have a problem to solve. Yeah, something is hanging and you're correct. The song probably wouldn't have opened on its own. What I have found is when the Task Manager shows "Not Responding", it doesn't mean yet to end task is my only point. Then try to just click back to either Studio One again and wait a half minute, or check and close a few other background progaram/routines. Then wait a half minute.

I do think if you either re install Studio One, or upgrade to the new v6, it will likely wring out everything barring any missing plugins which would need the plugin manager to monitor. Just please, please backup first. 🙏 I don't want that on my conscience. :?

Quick on v6: The buck fifty (USD) Studio One is charging IMHO (and I know I break their #$$ on a number of issues) is really the price of the Pro EQ3 right now if it were a stand alone product. It's not only that good, but it's sideband dynamic control is seamless due to being so tightly integrated in the DAW. Don't get caught up in the wait until it's some acceptable price reduction because "reduction" (the word I chose) can mean valuable time as well. Of course budget permitting.

Hope you get it sorted my friend.

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New song "Our Time"
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by reggie1979beatz on Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:15 am
Lokeyfly wroteI've been tempted as well to trial Cubase


Don't waste your time. Some problems I'll mention, though not limited to:

-The ABSOLUTELY over abundance of installing. It's insane! S1 is such a small footprint to get everything up and running. Not cubearse, no sir! It's a long and horrible process that already had me thinking it was a stupid idea. This was the newest 12 version, in the past, I don't remember it being so convoluted. And the "dongle-less" activation wasn't anything kosher either. The steinborg key was far more efficient.
-Buggy as heck at the time I demoed it. YMMV.
-It's a MESS! What is simple and elegant in S1 or some other hosts, was akin to root canal surgery w/o anesthesia. Simple stuff like setting up a simple input for guitars and bass was mind-numbingly difficult. And the endless having to do hoop-jumping to have a workflow that wasn't even close to as efficient, no thanks!
-Oh, and the ol' chestnut, CPU performance (or lack thereof) :roll: It's amazing that after all the years of other hosts at least trying to optimize, cubendo hasn't done SQUAT!

I think I had it for a grand total of a day before I said "enough, this isn't even close to having me make music" :evil: Lesson learned. Oh BTW, there are plenty of other peeps here who echo the exact same problems in recent months ;)

But I digress, hopefully y'awl can help MisterE get this sorted.

Bye......:roll:
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by donaldbaarns on Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:04 pm
The first thing I'd try is re-installing S1.

If you're not on the last 5.x version, upgrade to the latest 5.x version in that process, or 6.x if you're there (You could also try the 6.x DEMO version as a test, it will install in parallel, and likely to resolve the issue.)

The uninstall may have removed some shared files that shouldn't have been removed. Or the file extension associations were changed at some point, and the install should re-enable the proper ones.

Don

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by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:05 pm
reggie1979beatz wrote
Lokeyfly wroteI've been tempted as well to trial Cubase


Don't waste your time. Some problems I'll mention, though not limited to:

-The ABSOLUTELY over abundance of installing. It's insane! S1 is such a small footprint to get everything up and running. Not cubearse, no sir! It's a long and horrible process that already had me thinking it was a stupid idea. This was the newest 12 version, in the past, I don't remember it being so convoluted. And the "dongle-less" activation wasn't anything kosher either. The steinborg key was far more efficient.
-Buggy as heck at the time I demoed it. YMMV.
-It's a MESS! What is simple and elegant in S1 or some other hosts, was akin to root canal surgery w/o anesthesia. Simple stuff like setting up a simple input for guitars and bass was mind-numbingly difficult. And the endless having to do hoop-jumping to have a workflow that wasn't even close to as efficient, no thanks!
-Oh, and the ol' chestnut, CPU performance (or lack thereof) :roll: It's amazing that after all the years of other hosts at least trying to optimize, cubendo hasn't done SQUAT!

I think I had it for a grand total of a day before I said "enough, this isn't even close to having me make music" :evil: Lesson learned. Oh BTW, there are plenty of other peeps here who echo the exact same problems in recent months ;)

But I digress, hopefully y'awl can help MisterE get this sorted.

I didn't find the Cubase 12 demo quite that ghastly, once it was installed it functioned OK, what threw me was the program loads in parts as opposed to a whole ... like just about any other software. I was prepared to like the look and feel more than S1, but couldn't get there, and I like the small subtle GUI improvements to S1 V6 GUI.

When Cubase -- surprise -- started loading when I clicked on a S1 recent file on the S1 Startup page, there were three separate parts trying to load. That made a strange event even stranger!

The MIDI part of Cubase I expected to like I actually did like, and did not run into any off-putting surprses there, but that aspect of the venerable sequencer wasn't enough to tempt me into ownership, especially since S1 has gotten with the MIDI program in recent years. Deciding to feature Gregor and his roomful of hardware beasts was one of Presonus' best moves IMHO.

I'll have more to report on in a few hours when I have time to resume troubleshooting.
Last edited by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:13 pm
donaldbaarns wroteThe first thing I'd try is re-installing S1.

If you're not on the last 5.x version, upgrade to the latest 5.x version in that process, or 6.x if you're there (You could also try the 6.x DEMO version as a test, it will install in parallel, and likely to resolve the issue.)

The uninstall may have removed some shared files that shouldn't have been removed. Or the file extension associations were changed at some point, and the install should re-enable the proper ones.

As previously hinted, I like one or both of those troubleshooting steps -- upgrading to latest V5 (I'm on 5.2, so not the latest) or V6 demo and predict that should work ... only I'd still like to know what's going on.

Remember there were problems with invoking Cubase unintentionally before I uninstalled it; which leads me to suspect there was something in Cubase which told Windows to priortize it over similar programs.

Anyone know where Windows stores default programs (you know how you sometimes get that dialog box "Use _______ to open files like this")?

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by Lokeyfly on Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:24 pm
reggie1979beatz wrote
Lokeyfly wroteI've been tempted as well to trial Cubase


Don't waste your time. Some problems I'll mention, though not limited to:.......

Thought I made it clear, that I'm keeping to a lean system. But thank you for the added info. I won't be exploring Cubase likely ever again. Ot was just a passing thought. Keeping stuff off the computer just minimizes issues.

I'm not running anything that can potentially get in the way of music production including any unnecessary surfing on that PC. Only production related components, and very select at that.
Last edited by Lokeyfly on Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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New song "Our Time"
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by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:30 pm
So much for that theory ...

s1.png

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by reggie1979beatz on Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:48 pm
Good god. I hate gremlins!

@Lokeyfly: Oh, I totally get it. It's very tempting for sure. I mean, we all struggle for the perfect combo, right?

@midi: I'm not a midi guru. I use it a ton, but what I find in S1 is quite worthy for me. It's a far cry from Ableton, Bitwig, or (swallows hard) ... Reaper.

Bye......:roll:
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by Lokeyfly on Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:29 pm
reggie1979beatz wroteGood god. I hate gremlins!

@Lokeyfly: Oh, I totally get it. It's very tempting for sure. I mean, we all struggle for the perfect combo, right?


I can't even give a reason. It was a passing thought. Maybe a "if they go belly up" thought if I remember correctly. I'm convinced from a results standpoint that Studio One is just right for my needs. That's from both a speed and efficiency standpoint to endgame. It's more like the carpenter who is use to his tools, but curses them out anyway.
I'm in a good place on all fronts. If I could just be more efficient with time somehow. 🤔

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

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by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:38 pm
No luck on waiting out the load even though it appears hopelessly stalled and using Lokefly's tip of opening task manager, but not ending the task.

However some luck with his tip about checking the plugs, cause if I disable VST 2 and 3 using Startup Options, then every song loads up, albeit without virtual instruments.

Just to confuse the issue, some of the songs that won't open have just one .wav audio file with no plugs. Hmmmmm.

And sometimes without any Startup Options selected, a few songs will open normally then hang on the next one -- the dread intermittent problem.

I'll explore a little more and wait another day or so before upgrading to V5.5 or V6, there are no keepers to worry about losing that I've recorded in 5.2.

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by PreAl on Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:09 pm
Cubase installs virtual audio drivers that stay resident much like ASIO4ALL and are known to crash apps/slow down windows. Make sure those are removed and reboot.

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=393887

If it's a file associations issue check here:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing ... ociations/

Windows 11 is very stable now and I highly recommend upgrading if your hardware is compatible. That may clear some issues. Don't forget to back up first.

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by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:47 pm
Aha!!!!!!

Looks like it was a plug fouling up the works, Steinberg Spectral Layers to be specific. Good call Lokefly! Now I can open everything!!!

I had a really lucky troubleshooting break: I just installed Kontakt Player 7, and was curious what the Komplete Kontrol icon it placed on my desktop would do. Well, I clicked it and it started loading VSTs and was slowly identifying them them when it halted on ... Steinberg Spectral Layers. Could it be? Sure enough, there was Steinberg Spectral Layers still in my S1 Effects tab. Curiously, I still don't even know what it is or does -- much less used it on all the songs that wouldn't open. So that's still inexplicable, but it is planet Earth.

I had to go beyond unistalling all the Steinberg programs, I had to search for anything Steinberg and kill the remaining dozens of files scattered here and there. Only thing is, Spectral Layers is still appearing in my Effects tab. Anyone know how I can kill it (or keep it from showing up in Effects, it's not really there, I get a message telling me to reinstall it)? I know virtual instrument dll files are stored in Program Files/VST but where do the Effects files live and are they .dll files, too?

I mentioned how strange it was that Cubase seemed to open compartmentalized, in pieces, which took me aback cause I've read a lot about Cubase over years and have encountered many observations about it, none of which ever mentioned how it opens and closes and operates in pieces; well I guess all programs do, but they disguise it so you can digest the program as a whole, not a bunch of parts. And I've never seen a DAW open as more than one .exe or the equivalent.

Was all this trouble because my version of Cubase 12 was a demo? We may never know.

How did Cubase instability manage to infect perfectly stable S1? We may never know.

Was the Windows update the cause or just a distraction from another issue? Same, may never find out.

All I know is I've been at this a long time, and while I use way less effects plugs than most people because I don't do my own final mixes, I've never had a plug become a showstopper even though I've certainly read about them doing that plenty of times.

Now back to continuing to enjoy my Soniccuture Black Friday specials, sweat over whether I really need V-Collection 9 even though it's beyond a steal at $99 to upgrade for another day or so, and get back to the hard work of ragging on the update prices.

How this is all related to that Windows Update and how a plugin I didn't use in a song could keep it from opening may remain mysteries, as there is only so much forensic dissection I'm motivated to do now that I'm working.

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by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:52 pm
PreAl wroteCubase installs virtual audio drivers that stay resident much like ASIO4ALL and are known to crash apps/slow down windows. Make sure those are removed and reboot.

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=393887

If it's a file associations issue check here:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing ... ociations/

Windows 11 is very stable now and I highly recommend upgrading if your hardware is compatible. That may clear some issues. Don't forget to back up first.

Sorry I was typing and missed your post. You're definitely right about the first part.

Windows 11 being very stable for you is great for you but still not the case for everyone. I'll wait a little longer for that and because I'm running a legacy firewire driver for my Mackie Onyx Blackbird that took some trial and error to get running in Win10 and don't want to mess that up for the time being as it's running flawlessly now.

Thanks for contributing!

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by MisterE on Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:40 pm
Lokeyfly wroteIf I could just be more efficient with time somehow. 🤔

There's a tendency for each of us to think it's just us who takes forever to get things right ... but ... if your goal is to create somethig you can keep enjoying for the long haul ... it aint just you who can't believe how long it takes sometimes.

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by reggie1979beatz on Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:54 pm
MisterE wrote whether I really need V-Collection 9 even though it's beyond a steal at $99 to upgrade for another day or so


It's pretty glorious. One thing that is different than the 8 I had before is the GUI. It's more intuitive.

Anyways, glad you got it sorted. Cubendoarseborg, color me in the NOPE category :lol:

Bye......:roll:

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