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I'm preparing a song for its final mix while doing some last minute vocal touchups.

I've got a vocal track (stem) that I'm using in conjunction with the full mix as I work out some extra harmonies by riding the gain on that vocal stem as a point of reference. There isn't anything going on in terms of processing or track delay or anything of that nature. Pretty clean slate.

Here the problem: that vocal track keeps RANDOMLY going out of sync with the main mix.

I have that track/stem starting at bar 45, so it's not anchored at bar 1. But I doubt that would make any difference. The tempo is 100 and the audio file was exported with that tempo in mind. It's all supposed to work as it should.

It's the first time I've noticed anything like this. It makes no sense why a single track should randomly pop in and out of sync like that — does it three times in a row, then not at all, then a few more times.

And no, the song is slated for release, so I can't be putting it out for forum troubleshooting.

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by Vocalpoint on Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:59 pm
roland1 wroteThe tempo is 100 and the audio file was exported with that tempo in mind. It's all supposed to work as it should.


I am betting the tempo is not "exactly" 100. Even 100.02 will eventually drift.

This might offer some tips on determining what the real tempo of that vocal track actually is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3FVY_3FvcU

Cheers

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by roland1 on Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:28 pm
Well, the vocal was exported from a file that was 100 bpm. So I am counting on that exporting does not shift the tempo in the slightest. That part of the process has been rock solid — because it's being synced to video as well.

But even more strange is that it actually plays in sync (as it did initially) and then all of a sudden it starts to flam — giving me maybe a 11ms to 33 ms delay.

Very strange because it's not consistent but intermittent, meaning the app S! is interpreting it differently during particular passes. That can't be good. :)

P.S. I've never experienced this in any other project.

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by Vocalpoint on Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:50 pm
roland1 wroteSo I am counting on that exporting does not shift the tempo in the slightest.


Well - until you can confirm (with 100% certainty) what the tempo of that file is AND does it jive with the S1 project tempo - you will continue to have issues.

You can easily check tempo in the file browser by simply clicking on the file and viewing the metadata at the bottom of the Browser windows. If you do not see any file/tempo metadata when clicking the file - it is a totally crapshoot as S1 will probably have no idea what the tempo is.

I have this all the time with old ACID loops or files that I brought in from old multitrack dubs etc where the file has no tempo data whatsover. In these cases I almost need to time stretch it to a known tempo in S1 and then save the file with the new tempo data.

Good luck on the quest.

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by roland1 on Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:32 pm
Vocalpoint wrote
roland1 wroteSo I am counting on that exporting does not shift the tempo in the slightest.


Well - until you can confirm (with 100% certainty) what the tempo of that file is AND does it jive with the S1 project tempo - you will continue to have issues....

Good luck on the quest.

VP


Okay, for you — just for you — I checked the file tempo and it's...100 bpm.

I want to be clear. This is a project with several files, each for recording different parts; sections, what have you. BUT they are ALL Studio One files and they all share the same tempo. Everything is tightly coordinated because, well, it has to be. So I know that the files I'm using are perfectly timed, at least according to how I create them. They are definitely not outside 3rd party loops.

And that's where the mystery lies. I'm doing everything right from what I can tell. But Studio One is not.

Hence, my posting about it here.

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by Vocalpoint on Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:04 pm
roland1 wroteAnd that's where the mystery lies. I'm doing everything right from what I can tell. But Studio One is not.


Any chance there is a hidden (albeit microscopic) tempo drift somewhere on the Tempo Track? (if it is in play?)

Sounds like you are doing everything right - not sure what else could be going wrong.

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by reggie1979beatz on Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:42 am
Maybe I'm just daft, but why not try a completely new song using some loops and that vocal track and see if that works.

Bye......:roll:
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by bailatosco on Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:58 am
Maybe try turning on/off, bypassing and disabling/enabling all the inserts you have on that vocal track.
It could be a plugin that has significant latency and it's not being compensated correctly.
It happened to me one time with Soothe2, if the plugin was bypassed, latency was not compensated for. This happened kind of randomly, depending on where in the timeline I started playback.
Went crazy for a while trying to figure out what it was.

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:06 am
All good points, I would just add if the timing is still an enigma why it's going out of time.

Duplicate the audio track, even as a separate stem, or bounce it (don't corrupt the original.
Now, use only the duplicate and adjust the timing of the transients. Since it sounds close to the original (100 bpm) but wants to stray, you should be able to adjust not every transient, but a few at the start of a beat. This should then be your new track.

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by roland1 on Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:37 am
This song file was for stacked harmony vocals. There was no issue with the file itself or the recording process. Everything was done to a reference track. Later, when I decided to bring in the vocal track as a separate stem (placing it at bar 45), I noticed that this one file wasn't playing back reliably with each pass. It would play back in sync one time, but not the next. Then in sync again. Then not.

Also, there are no plugins on that particular track because it was already processed.

I will continue to investigate, but it remains a mystery.

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by Lokeyfly on Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:40 am
roland1 wroteThis song file was for stacked harmony vocals. There was no issue with the file itself or the recording process. Everything was done to a reference track. Later, when I decided to bring in the vocal track as a separate stem (placing it at bar 45), I noticed that this one file wasn't playing back reliably with each pass. It would play back in sync one time, but not the next. Then in sync again. Then not.

Also, there are no plugins on that particular track because it was already processed.

I will continue to investigate, but it remains a mystery.

I see. I would say to press on, bounce and adjust transient timing (or possibly Melodyne adjust), then bounce again.

As to why, I don't think anyone is going to have the answer not seeing the file. It could be a .002 msec. error as FP stated, or a MIDI timing error from a MIDI clock striped on the timing. As you say, it's an inconsistent error.

Perhaps later after the work is done (if you can) try importing the same file in another 100 bps song, and see if the same results happen.

The fact that it re occurs at random makes me think MIDI clock.

One more thing, remember when you fixed a MIDI clock issue not too long ago with some Roland device? (I forget so pardon my forgetting). Do you think that played a role? I think that was maybe due to Rokand V drum timing, but maybe it's still hooked up? Seems you're having inconsistent timing errors at times or at different situations. Just thought this might be worth checking.

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New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

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by roland1 on Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:37 am
This file exists in isolation. It's not hooked up to anything external or controlled by anything other than native S1 timing. All the other tracks are playing nice except this one.

I'm going to carry on [Celine Dion Titanic song starts playing in the background] and will later try to troubleshoot the issue — otherwise I'll make a career of looking for the reasons why things don't work. Hmmm. I kinda already do that as an author. Maybe I should...nah. I'm gonna keep working on the music part. :)

And thanks for sharing your vacation pics, Reggie. :)

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by roland1 on Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:59 am
UPDATE: Not a fix BUT I copied and pasted both the vocal file and the main music file with embedded vocals into a new song file and they played back in sync.

I then went back to the old file that was out of sync, deleted the offending track and then created a new one wherein I pasted the vocal track event. Now it was playing back in sync again. Hmm.

I've noticed in some projects that my MIDI notes shift to accommodate my moving the start of the file back in time. Maybe this also happened to the audio file, too? I really don't know.

I was too busy working to pay attention to what might have gone wrong. But nonetheless, something happened within the file that may either have been "user error" (doubtful because I handled all the other files the same way) or it was something that S1 did and has yet to apologize to me for.

If anything changes, I'll post here again. If nothing changes, I may still post here again. :)

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by Lokeyfly on Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:33 pm
Maybe not doubtful if there was some MIDI shift in place on the 1st (older) song.

Roland1 wrote: "I've noticed in some projects that my MIDI notes shift to accommodate my moving the start of the file back in time."


You'll want to get that back to default. I dont get the reasoning. No need to explain. I'm sure there was a reason. AFAI can tell, I don't know why "moving the start of the file back in time" was needed. Do you mean, moving the audio clip back in time to compendate? OK, I get it. If the file altered and saved due to that repositioning. I don't believe so but sure, one has to rationalize. It's possible the tempo varied a few minute clicks causing the random skips, but the new song it isn't doing so. Sounds like some snags in the older song.

Sometimes for reasons I can't fathom, Studio One will hold a setting even when starting a whole new song. So maybe just keep an eye on the MIDI clock setting.

In my case it was (and is) holding an unusual meter of 19/4 or some variation of that, until I go in and change it. Even if I start a whole new song. It keeps starting with 19/4 from a past song I did. Weird. Anyway, I'll probably start a post on it if I don't fix it tonight.

I'm willing to bet it's user error and you will have to serve two minutes for instigating. Maybe myself as well (for high sticking) on the meter issue. See you in the penalty box!

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

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by roland1 on Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:50 pm
It didn't work to re-import that track. I had to remove it altogether. Mystery remains.

I checked everything. No clues.

Lokeyfly wroteMaybe not doubtful if there was some MIDI shift in place on the 1st (older) song.

Roland1 wrote: "I've noticed in some projects that my MIDI notes shift to accommodate my moving the start of the file back in time."


You'll want to get that back to default. I dont get the reasoning. No need to explain....


I was making reference to another thing that occurs. But I think it just added to the confusion.

Forget I mentioned it. :)

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by Lokeyfly on Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:32 pm
Sure. If you find some issue, you can always add it to the official discussion thread.

Later.

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

Visit my You Tube Channel
https://youtube.com/@jamesconraadtucker ... PA5dM01GF7

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by roland1 on Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:51 pm
I will dig into this a little deeper when I finish this project that I'm working on. I'll have to go back and see if I shifted anything time wise in the final vocal file. I'm kind of gaslighting myself because i know that when I first put those files together they were in sync and now they're not.

Still, I'd like to get to the bottom of this because I need "closure." :)

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by roland1 on Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:36 pm
Oops. They did it again.

Shanabit, you are not allowed to express sadness here. It threatens to bring up discussions of real world events that others don't want to think about.

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by Lokeyfly on Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:37 pm
Worked on some music. Coming out great! Only to come back and find I'm in a space-time continuum.

Anyway, yeah, do that! Get the answer on the timing. Only, I think the timing has now effected the forum timing and us.

Question: When will then be now?
Answer: Soon!

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

Visit my You Tube Channel
https://youtube.com/@jamesconraadtucker ... PA5dM01GF7

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by Lokeyfly on Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:43 pm
Lokeyfly wrote: "Sometimes for reasons I can't fathom, Studio One will hold a setting even when starting a whole new song. So maybe just keep an eye on the MIDI clock setting.

In my case it was (and is) holding an unusual meter of 19/4 or some variation of that, until I go in and change it. Even if I start a whole new song. It keeps starting with 19/4 from a past song I did. Weird. Anyway, I'll probably start a post on it if I don't fix it tonight.

I'm willing to bet it's user error ........."

Yep, in my case it was user error, alright. Stupid me. Tonight, I started a new song to add some audio background clips for one of my other songs I'm finalizing. So I open the new song window, and I just never thought to look on the right, but the meter was 19/4. Evidently it holds it as a default even though I made the change in a different song and not there.

Silly me. :? I Guess Studio One song setup was just trying to help.

Anyway, let us know how you make out on the sync issue.

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

Visit my You Tube Channel
https://youtube.com/@jamesconraadtucker ... PA5dM01GF7

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