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Hi,

I've been using a P125 and a MODX separately in S1. Each is set up properly in S1 External Instruments and works individually, but not together. When I try to use both, only one or the other will receive audio in S1. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that both use the Yamaha Steinberg interface. I would have thought this to make things simpler, but no. It seems as if S1 is using one of them as an interface, and ignores the other. How do I overcome that? Plz see pic#1
Two keyboards, same interface..png
Pic#1


Each keyboard is connected to a different USB port on my computer. I did not connect the keyboards to each other. The P125 has its own USB cable going into one of my PC USB ports, and the MODx has its own cable going into another USB port on my PC.

Please see Pic#2 showing the two instances of available inputs, one for each keyboard, each using a different Steinberg interface:
Two keyboards, same interface_MODx_Inputs.png
Pic#2
If I connect the P125 first then it will send sound to a track and show two inputs (Digital Piano 1&2) under Song Setup, and I cannot add other inputs, because I guess the Steinberg interface that comes with P125 has only two outs. On the other hand, if I connect the MODX first(whose interface has 10 outs) it will show 10 inputs in the Song Setup window, but none of them can be used for the P125 because they are recognized as MODX outs. And in this case, the MODX is received on the track but now the P125 isn't, (See the 2nd instance of Pic#2)

So how do I tell S1 to receive audio from both keyboards? Obviously, only one interface can be used at one time, but I don't see anywhere an option to choose between the two interfaces since both keyboards have Yamaha Steinberg interfaces but S1 has it as only one option in the interface list.

Thanks

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MODX8, Akai MPK61, Yamaha P125, Yamaha Steinberg interface, EastWest Gold select libraries
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by jazzundso on Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:46 pm
Studio One (and any other DAW as well) / ASIO can only use one Audio Interface at a time. If you want to use the Audio Interface of your MODX or P125, you have to decide.

I have the same problem with my MoXF and CP-73. If you want to receive audio from the keyboard via the USB cable, you need to select it as your Audio Interface. This can only be one of them at a time.

At least that's the situation on Windows - on MacOS this can probably be solved with Aggregate Devices.

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by Jemusic on Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:39 pm
Studio One on Windows can only select one audio source at once. On Mac multiple interfaces can be used via the aggregate option.

The only real option is to invest in a separate audio interface that has more than two inputs - multiple inputs eg 4 or 8 etc. Then connect both synths via their analog stereo outputs to 4 inputs for example. Then you can create two audio tracks and set each of them from a separate stereo input source at the same time. These days the audio quality coming from the analog main synth outputs will be pretty hard to tell the difference from the audio over USB. The audio quality over USB is not massively superior at all, but rather convenient.

A separate audio interface will also enable connection of microphones, DI/ guitars etc and other non USB over audio sources.

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by ClaviBenModus on Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:51 pm
So to be clear, this means that neither keyboard can use the other's interface. Right? I gathered that two interfaces couldn't be used at once but I had hoped one keyboard could be made to merely transmit audio via USB without using its interface.

This is a bummer because there really is a quality difference been analog and digital especially since MODX does not have balanced outs. I have a 6-input PreSonus interface and I tried to use TRS cables and got a much lower quality sound compared to the digital signal via the USB cable. I don't mind investing in a good interface but I do mind losing sound quality.

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Studio One Artist 5.5.2, PreSonus Faderport 8, PreSonus FireStudio mobile w/8 line inputs and Firewire and MIDI S/PDIF (no USB), Tascam 2488 Neo,
MODX8, Akai MPK61, Yamaha P125, Yamaha Steinberg interface, EastWest Gold select libraries
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by shanabit on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:07 pm
ClaviBenModus wroteThis is a bummer because there really is a quality difference been analog and digital especially since MODX does not have balanced outs. I have a 6-input PreSonus interface and I tried to use TRS cables and got a much lower quality sound compared to the digital signal via the USB cable. I don't mind investing in a good interface but I do mind losing sound quality.


TS cable for unbalanced form your MODX and it will be just fine. Most keyboards do not have balanced outs. I run all my synths TS cable here into a line mixer. Sounds great

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by ClaviBenModus on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:11 pm
jazzundso wroteIf you want to use the Audio Interface of your MODX or P125, you have to decide.

I am fine using just one interface, I just want to use both keyboards. It seems like you're saying I can't use both keyboards, because using any keyboard via USB means automatically using its interface.
Just as I can use an external interface, I had hoped I would be able to use the MODX's interface to play the P125, or vice-versa.

Win 10 Pro 64-bit Desktop AMD Ryzen 7 2700 Eight-Core Processor 3.20 GHz 16GB RAM
Studio One Artist 5.5.2, PreSonus Faderport 8, PreSonus FireStudio mobile w/8 line inputs and Firewire and MIDI S/PDIF (no USB), Tascam 2488 Neo,
MODX8, Akai MPK61, Yamaha P125, Yamaha Steinberg interface, EastWest Gold select libraries
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by ClaviBenModus on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:15 pm
shanabit wroteTS cable for unbalanced form your MODX and it will be just fine. Most keyboards do not have balanced outs. I run all my synths TS cable here into a line mixer. Sounds great


So the quality difference I heard is because I used TRS cables then? Or maybe I should get a new interface? My Firestudio Mobile is about 10 years young now

Win 10 Pro 64-bit Desktop AMD Ryzen 7 2700 Eight-Core Processor 3.20 GHz 16GB RAM
Studio One Artist 5.5.2, PreSonus Faderport 8, PreSonus FireStudio mobile w/8 line inputs and Firewire and MIDI S/PDIF (no USB), Tascam 2488 Neo,
MODX8, Akai MPK61, Yamaha P125, Yamaha Steinberg interface, EastWest Gold select libraries
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by Jemusic on Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:16 pm
Many keyboards do have balanced outs. I have got 15 hardware instruments and most of them do but alas some don't for what ever reason.

I don't agree there is a big quality difference between analog and digital transfer though. Whenever I have done the analog vs digital comparison it is virtually impossible to tell. Especially in modern synths that offer both forms of output. Some early synths performed better digitally.

How are you recording the analog outs. Are you running them into the higher impedance jack line inputs. Have you got levels from both exactly the same. Insert a VU meter on the channel inputs and adjust so they are both identical. Or at least set the analog levels to match the digital levels which are often not adjustable.

And yes some unbalanced outs don't handle TRS cables well either. Use TS leads from the synths to the interface.

I am live sound engineer for a big show band and the keyboard player has a MODX7 and he feeds me the signal from his analog outs and it sounds excellent. He does take the unbalanced signal to a Zoom L12 mixer first then sends me the balanced outs. But he is using no EQ or anything though on the MODX7 channels. Keep the leads short if you are going from MODX direct to interface. (Although the output impedance from most modern synths is usually very low)

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by ClaviBenModus on Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:39 pm
OK, I'll try to get some TS cables and report back my results. I used to record into a Tascam DAW with TRS and the sound was significantly lower quality: smaller, thinner, and with a hissing noise. Once I started to record on my PC DAW with USB, the sound got clearer and more present, and no hiss.
Thanks.

Win 10 Pro 64-bit Desktop AMD Ryzen 7 2700 Eight-Core Processor 3.20 GHz 16GB RAM
Studio One Artist 5.5.2, PreSonus Faderport 8, PreSonus FireStudio mobile w/8 line inputs and Firewire and MIDI S/PDIF (no USB), Tascam 2488 Neo,
MODX8, Akai MPK61, Yamaha P125, Yamaha Steinberg interface, EastWest Gold select libraries
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by shanabit on Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:33 am
ClaviBenModus wroteOK, I'll try to get some TS cables and report back my results. I used to record into a Tascam DAW with TRS and the sound was significantly lower quality: smaller, thinner, and with a hissing noise. Once I started to record on my PC DAW with USB, the sound got clearer and more present, and no hiss.
Thanks.



Your level will be way off if you are trying to use TRS when they require TS. Its really that simple.

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by shanabit on Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:37 am
Jemusic wroteMany keyboards do have balanced outs. I have got 15 hardware instruments and most of them do but alas some don't for what ever reason.

I have 7 hardware synths here and not ONE has TRS on them, ALL TS

I don't agree there is a big quality difference between analog and digital transfer though. Whenever I have done the analog vs digital comparison it is virtually impossible to tell. Especially in modern synths that offer both forms of output. Some early synths performed better digitally.

Agreed, actually I like the sound of the analog connections better as you get the sound of its DA converter

And yes some unbalanced outs don't handle TRS cables well either. Use TS leads from the synths to the interface.

YES

I am live sound engineer for a big show band and the keyboard player has a MODX7 and he feeds me the signal from his analog outs and it sounds excellent. He does take the unbalanced signal to a Zoom L12 mixer first then sends me the balanced outs. But he is using no EQ or anything though on the MODX7 channels. Keep the leads short if you are going from MODX direct to interface. (Although the output impedance from most modern synths is usually very low)


In my studio, all my synths connect TS to an Ashly line mixer, TRS from there to my interface

Live I just used DI boxes

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by Jemusic on Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:41 pm
To the OP yes record into an audio interface connected to your computer with TS leads. I think you will find you will get a much better result.

The issue with TRS cables going in to an unbalanced connection is what they do with the ring. If they strap that to ground then you are usually fine but sometimes the ring connection goes unconnected to anything and then things can get a little wonky.

To shanabit many of my synths are rack mounted and they for some reason are all balanced outs. Probably as they figure the signal has to travel further, then a balanced connection is going to eliminate any noise or hum issues along the way. The Kurzweil PC3K6 keyboard is fully balanced as well. It pays to do a test to see if your outputs are balanced. A CRO will quickly tell you.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro

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