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Hi all,

I am seeing a strange behavior when I am recording audio to layers. I have recorded an acoustic guitar with two mics (neck and body). I have grouped the two tracks before recording.

I recorded my song step by step: First the intro, then the verse, then pre-corus, then chorus, etc. I have set the loop markers for each part (snap to grid), and recorded via auto-punch (not in a loop though). So I placed my cursor two bars before the punch-in, pressed record, pressed stop after the punch-out, back to the beginning - and repeat. For each song section, I have recorded five takes (to five layers). Now I want to comp the perfect track.

In some sections, this worked perfectly. The takes were recorded to layers 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. In other sections, S1 "skipped" layers. The five takes were recorded to layers 1, 2, 6, 7, and 8. Strangely this happened only on the track of the neck mic, and not on the track of the body mic.

Now I have a massive problem with comping. S1 does not understand that when I comp a section from layer 3 of the one track, it has to take the same section from layer 6 of the second track (remember, the tracks are grouped for this very reason). Please see the following screenshot, which should make clear what I mean:

Image

Blue is good, and red is bad.

How does this happen, and how can I avoid it next time?

Is there I way I can fix my last recording? Can I tell S1 for examle: Please regard layer 6 of this track as layer 3 (so it matches with the other track in the group)? Or can I move recordings from one layer to another?

Thanks a lot
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by Trucky on Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:59 pm
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by Lokeyfly on Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:22 am
@ Captain Hook, Good description. Not sure how you made the passes in creating the 5. You see sometimes Studio One when comping will if comped without interruption will usually create the takes in a contigouos manner. Only if you jump to the next section, it may place the new takes in other new lanes. In your case it really jumbled those passes even further. Mic'ing 2 mono tracks when comping only exacerbates that trying to find the takes even harder due to those skips. This all clearly presented 👍

To resolve, I would seriously consider comping in stereo to keep the organizing that much easier. You'll still have a slight benefit to balance the 2 mics of guitar, but really the ability to Comp and promote the section will be a lot easier. In all practicality, you wouldn't comp just one of the two mics. Stereo or single mono takes will be both more efficient and minimize phasing issues.

I only comp in mono, but if I remember correctly the skips will occur if there is either an overlay of the area tracked (as in looped over an existing area) or if you jump to record in a distant location (as in moving the loop point from intro to chorus). Don't quote that too harshly but I recall jumps happening that way. In any case, really shoot for recording a stereo or single mono track.

To fix your issue with relocating lanes, it's tricky but you can make a lane relocate or change to become a track.

I would create a "duplicate Complete" track so that the lanes are preserved on the new track and you can see the original skips above.

Now either create new take(s) manually and go to the audio pool [F10] and drag in any particular takes you need in that lane.

Btw, Welcome Captain Hook and still a good idea to add your specs for future use.

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by Tacman7 on Tue Aug 09, 2022 7:41 am
I never saw any difference in comping mono or stereo. I used to track wet and dry (mono/stereo) at the same time, when you group those tracks you just edit one and the other gets edited.

Developing a workflow. Like I like to track vox one section (8 bars) at a time, about 10 takes.

I track with punch in on and loop locators set to measures. So I record chunks and it looks like what you have.

With takes to layers on you get a duplicate of what you just tracked on the active lane. So in tracking you do your track then delete it, the copy is down in the layers, it's confusing enough without adding duplicates.

Gets messy if I have to sing just past a measure, then when tracking the next section it will start down lower to the first free layer.

My main workflow is Track all the takes and comp them. Select it all on the active layer and bounce it. You take that bounced file into melodyne. If you're done with the comping you delete all the layers (hit the x's to left of layer) then go to the pool and right click and use the delete unused command which will let you permanently delete all the takes.

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:29 am
Tacman7 wroteI never saw any difference in comping mono or stereo.


Nor I. What happens though and I think happened here is when comping sections like 5 takes to layers or so. Then shifting to another location, a stereo or mono will be fine. That is up until the tracks either add more (i.e. 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) will be added, leaving 1 thru 5 lanes open. In the OP's case, he has comped with two mono inputs at the same time. One mic at the sound hole, and one mic at the neck. A good micing strategy, only the two mono tracks when both somehow jumble the look of the comp when they skip to 6, 7, 8...(as above). In the OP's case, the jump was 1, 2, 6, 7, & 8.

It's also just more elegant to comp a mono or stereo track than to comp two tracks, having to look and follow the other track. No need to double comp this way.

Effects (in the case if a send) would play no part as they just follow the comped track.

Tacman7 wrote: "With takes to layers on you get a duplicate of what you just tracked on the active lane. So in tracking you do your track then delete it, the copy is down in the layers, it's confusing enough without adding duplicates."


At times or I suspect for your workflow. One needn't delete anything. One track isn't a lane but where either the last take resides temporarily, or parts of lanes get promoted to. Or as you say, just select the lane. It's a duplicate only that it is the promoting or final track for takes going forward with.

That's all sort of add-on information. Nothing complicated. The skips with multi tracks almost at random certainly add to being complicated though. :D
Agreed.

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:53 am
Captain Cook wrote: "I have grouped the two tracks before recording."


Is it possible that in some areas you comped less than 5 passes, maybe expecting a layer to be advanced in not the top track, but during another pass? I'm just seeing the sections of the comp and there's an outside chance that is also the case.

Also because I'm thinking you combined the microphones onto one mono track?
Seems that would be an easier fix for comping. Not seeing the process is a bit tricky to determine the 1, 2, 6, 7, 8 jump, but again my guess is still when you record at other regions or parts of a song, these sort of skips in lanes can and do happen. Both in mono or stereo. If you comped two mono seoerate tracks, that's additional trouble.

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by Captain Cook on Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:17 pm
Thank you all for your answers. I have added system information to my signature.

Recording in stereo is not what I want. Studio One's option to group tracks is exactly made for editing multiple (mono or stereo) tracks at once. Just imagine I wanted to edit drums or a whole band that was recorded live - with six or seven or a dozen mics. You could not do that with just a stereo track.

Tacman, your workflow seems a lot like mine. However, to avoid singing/playing beyond a measure I used the punch out. The recording should have always stopped exactly at the end of the bar.

My suspicion is that Studio One, however, does not stop recording exactly at the punch-out. Have a look at the end of my song. For all five takes, the punch-out was set exactly to bar 143. The first two takes do indeed end exactly at bar 143. But takes 3, 4, and 5 go just a bit beyond 143. I suppose that if I added another section at 143, Sudio One would use layers 1 and 2 - and then skip 3, 4, and 5 again, as they are already occupied. Is this a bug in Studio One?

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by Captain Cook on Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:40 pm
And no - it did not. Instead, it used layers 1, 2, 3, 6, 7. What the...?

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:35 pm
Captai Cook wrote: "Recording in stereo is not what I want. Studio One's option to group tracks is exactly made for editing multiple (mono or stereo) tracks at once. Just imagine I wanted to edit drums or a whole band that was recorded live - with six or seven or a dozen mics. You could not do that with just a stereo track."


No, I only meant stereo meaning recording (in this case comping) one stereo track. Since you are multi mic recording, this is a comping option. Anyhoo. As your last finding really throws in exactly what Studio One seems to do at different intervals. Be it recording takes to layers, tracking by punch in/out, etc. It happens with me as well. Then, it decides not to skip which was my point earlier about don't quote me too closely. :)

With the lane skip you show in the last slide, it looks as though the punch out occurred a little later than the others (1 and 2). Maybe watch for that.

My only suggestion would be to make sure snap is off, and avoid any quantize with recording is on. Just in case.

Maybe lane skipping doesn't occur with Tacman7? I'm all ears.

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by SwitchBack on Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:23 pm
The pic in the first post shows that there's both muting and soloing on the tracks (since both global buttons are lit). I wonder what sort of effect that has on recording to layers.

To me the mute/solo mechanism in S1 is a bit of a mystery at times. What helps me then is to clear all mutes and solo's and start anew, using only mutes or only solos to enable/disable tracks as needed. Worth a try.
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by Lokeyfly on Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:30 pm
Another observation from the same 1st image. Aside from the skipped takes, where red is deemed bad, looking at track #8, the Solo, take 3 promoted (circled red) has moved to the correct place at track 8. That's where I'd expect it to land. I wouldn't consider that "bad".

As for track 7, it appears (I'll guess) Chorus2 was recorded first which is why it has the 5 tracks in un skipoed order. On the other hand Solo and the Purple section (lets call it Verse 2) have takes 1, 2, then jump to 6, 7, and 8. Those takes will promote prooerly to 7. Pretty clear I think. The reason though why Solo and Verse 2 do not have takes 3, 4, and 5 remains the golden question. There was some unknown break, we can't tell here in the operations (modus operandi).

The take promotions moved properly. The skip of 3, 4, 5 unknown. The Solo observation is pretty interesting but I can't say what that cause and effect is just yet. I know from my own dealings takes may jump without soloing.

Gaps or no gaps, I believe the OP can anticipate promoting any of the take sections for tracks 7 and 8.

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