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Hello,

I made a song (arrangement, mixing) in S1 and now I would like to do a mastering.

So, I created Project and imported my little song. That I did playback before doing anything else and... looks like something is really not right here. I can here several problems not present in song itself, like weird slowdowns, volume drops and even small parts of some tracks are missing.

What is going on? Is this known issue? Is there any workaround?

I'm using latest version of S1.

Thanks,
Konrad
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by Lokeyfly on Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:18 am
Sounds like something in the transformation to the Project page occurred.

Whatever additional info of how you sent the song to Project can help.

Either you imported a mixdown from Project, or sent the song directly to Project from the file pull down menu. Either way, it's important that the song be as lean as possible where the CPU level is not high.

Sending the song is done by internal processing so performing such things in your song tracks such as rendering to audio first only makes the transformation more reliable.

Remember to close ANY other activity on your computer when promoting the song or mixdown to Project. This includes turning off your internet if you're serious about minimizing any possible issues. Make sure your hard drive isn't too full, as in less than 75%.

Send any added info when you can about how you sent the song into Project, and what the CPU load looked like. Also what computer, cpu, ram size, and OS.
Latest Studio One as in.....(version).

Btw, this had once occurred with me on my older Sony (and very capable) computer, with minor dropouts at the beginning of the song, but I did correct the issue as ensuring buffering of the computers audio, and drive optimization fixed everything. With a little care, your song will be fine.

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

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by konradkoch on Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:02 am
I'm using Project->Import file, then selecting my song, in Update Mastering Files dialog I select track and click OK.

My specs:
AMD Ryzen 5 5600X (6 cores)
16GB RAM
SSD
Windows 11 Home 21H2
Studio One 5.5.2.86528 Win x64 (Build on Apr 1 2022)
SoundID Reference plugin on Listen Bus

During rendering, the CPU usage varies from 20% to 100% (song is ~4:27min long and it takes ~21s to render).

I deleted project and master wave file from song folder and created new fresh project. No luck.

But, when I export mixdown from Song page (as wave) and import it to Project, everything is OK. Looks like a workaround... but my definitely there is a bug in song->master translation process.

Thanks,
Konrad
Last edited by konradkoch on Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by SwitchBack on Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:21 am
With CPU usage up to 100% you have to look into your buffer sizes and dropout protection, to avoid bits missing.
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by konradkoch on Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:31 am
Are you saying that dropout protection affect rendering to file (or translation from song to master)? That's a news I must say... I wasn't aware. I was thinking that it affects playback or recording, but not rendering. My understanding is that of 100% CPU during rendering is good thing because S1 is using all available power to render song as quickly as possible... I'll take a look into this once again, thanks.

Konrad
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by fmaestas on Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:48 am
Have you tried just creating a WAV file and dragging onto the Project window, or Import just the wav file, not the project file. I just drag my wav files in. Listen to the wav outside of S1using a media player. If the file sounds wrong something is wonky in the mixer.

S1 Pro 6.5, Logic, Reaper, macOS BigSur
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by konradkoch on Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:54 am
fmaestas wroteHave you tried just creating a WAV file and dragging onto the Project window, or Import just the wav file, not the project file. I just drag my wav files in. Listen to the wav outside of S1using a media player. If the file sounds wrong something is wonky in the mixer.


Yes, I tried that and it's working fine.

But, I think I found another (better) workaround. When I add my song to project from Song page using menu Song->Add to project... it is also working fine! No glitches in master anymore!

Looks like using Import (song not wave) from Project page is somehow buggy. That's OK.

Thanks everyone for help!
Konrad
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by Lokeyfly on Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:50 am
Good info Konrad, and good responses.
All stuff on the table. The only downside to creating a mixdown is the import will work but not give you a notice to update. It may if you overwrite that same mixdown file, but I've not encountered that.

It still would be nice to send from the song itself.

I'm thinking what Switchback said about the 100% and that was my same thoughts. Only, I'm not sure in the case of a internal processing transfer if it matters. I forget. BTW, I'm doing this later tonight on a song so I'll check the speed and if it varies.

Last week I did this and while it's typically on my computer 4x to 7x faster, I noticed it was at one point about -1.2 slower. Just for a half minute, then went to 4.7x. Weird. In the end, the Track in Project had no issues. Sometimes we just don't know if the gremlins are working or out to lunch.

I'll report back. In the mean time, you can either import the file from Windows, or optimize in any way that makes sense. Obviously a cold boot will clear the ram, and you've likely tried that.

Pretty sure this will iron out if that holds any water. In my case the issue was the very same. Mixdown fine, but send to Project reveald dropouts. Then it suddenly worked and has not returned.

For the heck of it, make sure your audio driver and windows sys files are up to date.

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

Visit my You Tube Channel
https://youtube.com/@jamesconraadtucker ... PA5dM01GF7

Latest song releases on Bandcamp -
 
Latest albums on iTunes

All works registered copyright ©️
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by SwitchBack on Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:11 am
Hmm, having .song files or master WAV files in a project should make no difference for processor load in that project. But with WAVs you're missing out on a number of advantages you get when using .song files.

With .song files the project verifies if a song has changed, and if so it offers to update the master file. On 'yes' it opens the song, updates the master file, closes the song and then uses that master file just as if you would have imported that file into the project yourself. With .song files in projects you also get 'wrench links' to those songs so you can quickly open them from the project.

So there's something else making your processor jump to 100%. Are you using the same sample rate in songs and project? I have no processor load issues at all.
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by konradkoch on Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:50 pm
Thank you guys for your time and help.

As I mentioned I managed to overcome this issue by not using Project->Import file from Project page, but Song->Add to project from Song page. Weird, but this way works perfectly. No glitches, so far. I just need to check if after updating of song everything is still perfect.

BTW, in my case 100% CPU usage lasts only for couple of seconds (2-3) at the end of rendering process.

Thanks,
Konrad
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by Lokeyfly on Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:13 pm
Per Swithback response. Agreed. As Konrad gets that answer, I ran two songs into Project. CPU in Studio One never exceeded 70%, both songs (each 30 to 40 mostly stereo tracks, 4 minutes long) transfered between 8x to 15x in about 10 seconds. The CPU percentage never varied, but the transfer speed did as shown.

Good question as to mixed sample rate, perhaps even in the song. If things are working well, it won't matter. I found in both my song tracks and Project itself, I have both 48K and 44.1, and the 32 bit fp (64 bit fp now) handles conversions without a hitch. Still, it's a worthy question as all CPU processing might share duties differently. I can only say it hasn't affected me but that and a dollar will buy a doughnut.

Two questions remain for konradkoch.

1. Have you rendered all instrument tracks to audio?While not essential, it will in the case of dropouts, free up any over processing going on during the conversion. Things like multiple overuse of instrument voices, effect processing, and such are greatly trimmed down by converting tracks (among other mixing strategies).

2. Switchback wrote to konradkoch: "So there's something else making your processor jump to 100%. Are you using the same sample rate in songs and project? I have no processor load issues at all."


[quote] konradkoch wrote: "My understanding is that of 100% CPU during rendering is good thing because S1 is using all available power to render song as quickly as possible." [/quote]

It may if it had to run at 100% but I dont think it has to. After checking this, I'm seeing 70% and there are no other applications running, so the processor is devoting very fast times under 10 seconds, no issues.

Ok, let's add a third question if I may. [u]Have you run task manager and verified no other programs or anti virus software is running?[/u] It may have been asked, but something is driving the CPU all the way to 100%. Is 100% the issue? I don't know, but it does seem to be overworking. Given the dropout issue, the 100% looks suspect.

I see your response Konrad, thanks! Questions are still on the table as they may reveal some areas to look at.

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

Visit my You Tube Channel
https://youtube.com/@jamesconraadtucker ... PA5dM01GF7

Latest song releases on Bandcamp -
 
Latest albums on iTunes

All works registered copyright ©️
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by konradkoch on Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:24 pm
@Lokeyfly

This is how my CPU usage looks while rendering track (sorry for cryptic words it's taken from polish version of Windows, but you'll get the idea):
Zrzut ekranu 2022-06-27 060932.jpg


Ad.1 No, not even single one. All my tracks are instrument tracks.
Ad.2 Both song and project are in 48 kHz (and 32 bit float processing)

Here are my newest discoveries:

1. I was wrong. Importing track from Project page or adding it to project from Song page doesn't matter. I did several tries. Sometimes it's sound better that's why I overlooked it.

2. I figured out that all distortions happens only on single track/channel and only in first couple of second (but they are slightly different every time track is re-rendered). When bounced this track to audio (as you suggested) - problem gone. No I can here whole song on Project page without any distortions. On this particular track I'm using UVI PX Memories plugin but I doubt this plugin is a problem as I'm using it on two other tracks (and they don't produce any distorted audio in master).

So, looks like bouncing problematic track did a trick. Still I think it shouldn't be that way, but... I'm glad I can do mastering now ;-)

Thank you!
Konrad
User avatar
by Lokeyfly on Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:17 am
Hi Konrad,
Glad to hear the bounce of the one problematic track fixed the issue! Yes, you're correct, it shouldn't be so sensitive to fail under such conditions. Sometimes it's just that one spike as shown in your Nvidia card, or some steep processing that takes place (like towards the end of the CPU graph) and mixed with a heavily processed track may be the cause. I also tend to rendor any heavy load tracks, but keep other tracks as instruments, because I am often tweeking those tracks such as drums, and bass right up to the finishing touches of a song.

Tip: You can see your highest load tracks in Studio One's Song mode by selecting the CPU bar, and opening that window. Then select to see all plugins. Then sort the CPU column (by clicking on it). This way, if you see any +20% items, they might be the most suspect and need to be rendered. Render the whole track to audio, or bounce those events, depending what works for you. Each have benefits or drawbacks.

It won't be often, but enough to check if you see the CPU activity bar go to a high % in Studio One. At least this way you can single out any issues. The plugin manager can do the same.
Also in that same CPU bar when opened select for plugins to "nap" and also make sure the plugin cache is turned on. [See video]
phpBB [video]


With v4 and v5, Studio One developers corrected a lot of the plugin efficiency and core distribution though occasionally some mostly 3rd party instrumemts or effects can notoriously be a bit weighty.

Good luck!

S1-6.2.1, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen, 32 GB,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD),1 TB SSD. Win10 Pro, Audient iD14 MkII, Roland JV90, NI S49 MkII, Atom SQ, FP 8, Roland GR-50 & Octapad. MOTU MIDI Express XT. HR824, Yamaha HS-7, NS-1000M, Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6, etc.

New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

Visit my You Tube Channel
https://youtube.com/@jamesconraadtucker ... PA5dM01GF7

Latest song releases on Bandcamp -
 
Latest albums on iTunes

All works registered copyright ©️
User avatar
by SwitchBack on Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:07 am
Revisiting this thread: I noticed something which may explain the high CPU loads and the erratic mastering files.

When you update a mastering file from a project it opens the song and immediately starts updating its mastering file. It does not wait for any of the song's caching backlog to complete first, even with disk cache turned on. This means that the mastering file gets generated whilst caching is still trying to catch up, as fast as it can. That's definitely not good for a reliable result.

For a demonstration try this: Find a song which is used in a project and also has audio files in its cache folder (from time stretching, transposing, ...). Open the song, toggle a mute button on/off and back (any mute button will do, it's just to allow the song to be saved) and save and close the song. Then use your computer's file browser to delete the song's cache folder. (You can always do this, to clean up your drive especially after finishing a song. Cache folders and files required for the song will be recreated next time you open the song).

Restart S1 (to make sure all RAM buffering is cleared) and open the project with the song in it. It will show the song you just saved as changed and will offer to update the mastering file. Do so and watch the CPU performance meter and the cache activity meter. You'll probably see CPU load jump up, and see the song close before caching is completed. This makes the new mastering file questionable to say the least.

(Now fix this by deleting the song's cache folder. Then open the song, from the project if you want, toggle a mute button, wait for any caching to complete, then save and close it. Now you should be able to update the mastering file, from the project if you want, without any problems).

So, not sure where to go from here. Maybe someone from the S1 beta team can take this up with the development team?

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