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I'm curious if you send a song to the Project page, you then performed some gain, or automation adjustments, then as in previous Studio One versions, might have to revert back to the Songs Page, let's say lower some specific track(s). Then save the file, and this would signal Ithe Project page to update that track (songs in Project are tracks).. Fine up to this point. However, it would be nice if there was some holding que of the edits, where they could be re executed to the newly updated song. Let's say a simple automation swell in the middle to raise the chorus. It would seem, once you make adjustments, and have to refer back to the song page to update, you lose everything. This is my guess. I always n knew they would be two entities, but I'd like to hear the capability of re applying previous edits.

This certainly can and does happen as a client may hear the song, want a change, and the intent then is go to the song to apply the edits. Then forward back to Project.

Again. I'd be curious if the previous automation swell can remain.

All in all, I'm glad to see the new Project Page possibilities. It also may save me about $100 as I I won't have to buy Sonnible's Smart Limit which sets LUFS levels in the same way. I can use the new Project Page in conjunction with Izotope Ozone 8 to get most of what I need.

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by leosutherland on Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:14 pm
Lokeyfly wrote"666 is no longer alone
He's getting out the marrow in your backbone
And the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll
Gonna blow right down inside your soul
Pythagoras with the looking glass reflects the full moon
In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand-new tune"

Excerpt of "Suppers Ready" Genesis (Album: Foxtrot 1972)

Just funnin'

Dang, now I got to go and listen to it!

...said Halo

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:00 pm
May I suggest Steve Hackets later version. The original with Peter Gabriel was great and Pete was very theatrical in costume.
Either way, you're in for a treat.

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by Bub on Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:39 pm
Lokeyfly wroteAll in all, I'm glad to see the new Project Page possibilities. It also may save me about $100 as I I won't have to buy Sonnible's Smart Limit which sets LUFS levels in the same way. I can use the new Project Page in conjunction with Izotope Ozone 8 to get most of what I need.


I don't remember how O8 deal with LUFS and levels, but I upgraded to O9A and just recently took a deep dive in to it. I successfully mastered 3 old analog tracks in just a few days and only had to do the car test once or twice. That has never happened before.

O9A will set the levels for you like this will, only I can do it in the Song page. They really dropped the ball with this by only allowing it in the Project page. I can't imagine it will stay that way seeing how so many others will let you do it with a plugin on any track, any time.

Between O9A's Tonal Balance Control 2 and it's ability to set your track volume to a LUFS you specify, I have everything I need.

The one thing that I found is, all of these mastering tools work best on exported stems rather than full blown Songs with many tracks. That's one problem the Project page can't overcome unless of course you have a really high end i9 PC that is lightning fast.

They are getting really close to being able to do the core functions of Ozone's mastering abilities though. I imagine within 5 ~ 6 years AI will be so common place all of what O9A can do will be part of the Project page by default. It makes you wonder where it's all going to go.

But for now, if they added something like Tonal Balance Control 2 where you have a visual representation of the EQ curve compared to professional recordings then it's pretty close to game over for Ozone in my opinion. All the automated AI stuff is great, but what I use 99% of the time is the Maximizer which sets your levels like S1 5.5 does now and TBC2. It basically let's you see what you are EQ'ing which is invaluable in a crappy mixing/mastering environment. What they added to the Project page is excellent for someone who doesn't have the mastering tools and can't afford them.

But back on the Sphere train ... all of these things on subscription get expensive and in the long run you are much better off purchasing them outright. If I paid for a subscription for Adobe, Sphere, Native Instruments, iZotope plus all the other ones I'm interested in it would come to an enormous amount of money a month and at the end of the month or whatever cycle I'd have nothing. I couldn't open any projects, edit anything, and you know how it is. Heck, I'm still opening up projects from 12 ~ 13 years ago I started in Cakewalk Sonar Producer 8. I've been trying to find floor plan layout software this afternoon to help with some work I'm doing on my house. Every single one I could find is subscription only. It's a slippery slope and I hope everyone, not just DAW developers, realize that they are soon going to be flipping the tables and making it so nobody can afford to use this stuff if they force subscriptions like a lot are doing now. Not to mention the cost of just being on the internet. I live in the country, that big giant area where most people live between NY and CA, and I pay $130 a month for that alone.

Shane

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by barrywitt on Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:25 pm
Bub wroteHey Barry,

I'm sure you remember me from the Sonar forum. I was banned for being so vocal about it's stability?

Since Bandlab bought it they have fixed all of the stability issues that a lot of people ran in to and it's every bit as rock solid as Studio One now. I still prefer Studio One, but if it ever went south like Sonar did I would have no issue at all going back full time. I use it regularly but Studio One is my main go to.

I think the developers overseas take quite a bit of pride in Studio One and I really can't see them letting it go. Unless I read it wrong the Fender thing was only on the hardware side? But I could be wrong. I do wish they would say something on the forum with some details though.


Hey Bub,
I was a cakewalk user since the 4.0 DOS version back when Greg Hendershot started the company. I never thought he would leave or sell but he did. Then Gibson screwed everyone. While the Bandlab version may be stable, I would never use the software any more than I'd go back with my first why if she went from the devil incarnate I knew to mother Theresa. Screw me once shame on me...you know the rest.
I remember when Fender bought RiffStation and buried that great little piece of software in the dumpster. Buy outs by big corporations have a tendency to reek havoc in companies when the bean counters start giving orders. As I said, I'm concerned about the future of Presonus and I have a buttload of money invested in them. Fingers crossed on this one.

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by Lokeyfly on Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:46 pm
Thanks Bub for the updates. I'm backing up right now to load five-five.

Ozone 9, I'm briefly familiar with. It seemed so far from the mark of a conventional plugin, and more like a smorgasbord of do all. Not a dis, but I just felt it was so automated. I agree with you that I too just like to maximize and do my own testing of the mix and translation.
Ozone 8 is very useful. More conventional as a maximiser. Definately has the styles and analysis features to a simpler degree. I use them mostly on the experiment side and rarely set it and forget it. Ok, never actually set anything and forget it. ;)

Mastering levels are a snap. Even the Studio One Limiter will get me where I need at around 10 LUFS. Its mostly still verifying how things translate that's key.

As to Sphere, I don't have an issue with it in itself. That end of it is pretty much the forceable norm, for lack of a better term. The US first, and then them position has forced me to contribute in a much different manner going forward. Nuff said.

I'm looking forward to trying the new S1 features. That will determine what I'll actually need. One thing I need for sure is more time towards Projects.
Stay safe!

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by kisnou on Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:07 am
I'm curious to see what the Target Loudness feature actually does. Is it a limiter? Or is it more than that?

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by Robdp on Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:36 am
I am seriously hoping (because I expected it by now to be honest) that we get the following:

Nudge features... (nudge by sample, milliseconds, beats etc..)

Fades......... being able to type in values for fades, or set up an automatic length value for cross fades. It's SO annoying having to zoom in, and manually change the length of a cross fade (because that process in itself its very awkward) for e try cross fade you do.

We can hope and wish!!!!

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by jazzundso on Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:47 am
Robdp wroteI am seriously hoping (because I expected it by now to be honest) that we get the following:

Nudge features... (nudge by sample, milliseconds, beats etc..)

Fades......... being able to type in values for fades, or set up an automatic length value for cross fades. It's SO annoying having to zoom in, and manually change the length of a cross fade (because that process in itself its very awkward) for e try cross fade you do.
Isn't this exactly what my script extension provides?

Nudge Beats / Seconds / Frames / Samples:

Image

phpBB [video]


Robdp wroteFades......... being able to type in values for fades, or set up an automatic length value for cross fades. It's SO annoying having to zoom in, and manually change the length of a cross fade (because that process in itself its very awkward) for e try cross fade you do.
Isn't this exactly what you can do with the "Create Crossfades" commands? ;)

phpBB [video]

Attachments
nudge.png

Lukas Ruschitzka
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by Lokeyfly on Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:42 am
kisnou wroteI'm curious to see what the Target Loudness feature actually does. Is it a limiter? Or is it more than that?

Good question.The loudness will always be held by some limiting factors, such as peaks, and very high transients. Reduce them and targeted loudness will be increase because everything else comes up. I'll have try Target Loudness out as well to see, but my guess is levels are simply normalized to the set LUFS by adjusting Peak only to get it in range.

One way to find out would be to take two of the same songs where one is already limited heavily in some usual pancake (squashed and louder) form. In the Project Page, set the peak rms to the same amount. There's a great way to do that by updating loudness and check the Post FX Indicator. The True Peak level is your actual ceiling so if it reads -1.0 dB, then you can either grab the grips node on the waveform to increase the gain level to 1.0 dB max (usually leave a few tenths of headroom). The other way is you now have an additional 1.0 dB from your Limiter that's inserted. Use that to limit transients or peaks.

Now, with two very different songs both normalized, with same LUFS readings (throughout, not peak), then run both through the Target Loudness and compare. This would be a true comparison because both songs had same preparations prior, yet have different audible perceived loudness. Then compare the export result.

Have a look at Sonnible True Peak. It has the same Target listing, but dies so much more in settings and character. Whatever hoo-doo algorithms they're using are really quite good, so I still think I'm going to pick it up this weekend.
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New song "Our Time"
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by kisnou on Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:26 am
Just wanted to say I appreciate that some people from Presonus joined this chat. I'm glad to see that, so thanks Lukas!

By the way, regarding fade ins and outs, I made a feature request some time ago that asked for a better view/control of fades.
For example, if the fade IN is very close to the end of the clip (or the fade out is very close to the beginning of the clip), you might have a hard time grabbing that fade point because it overlaps with the volume line. See the attachment. You have to zoom in a lot to do that.

However, I think my biggest wish for 2022 is to have indipendent scaling of Studio One, so not affected by Windows scaling options. :punk:

Attachments
Screenshot_13.png

Presonus Featured Artist (Italy)
My Latest Feature Requests :arrow:
https://answers.presonus.com/73692/s1-essential-feature-plugin-racks
https://answers.presonus.com/72506/zoom-to-selection-improvement-vote-if-you-agree
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by kitwatson on Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:32 pm
I am completely convinced that the "666 fix" was simply to replace it with a "knockout face" (x's for eyes) just to placate the religious right who were sick and tired of having the number of the beast showing up in their DAW.

;)

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by PreAl on Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:19 am
kitwatson wroteI am completely convinced that the "666 fix" was simply to replace it with a "knockout face" (x's for eyes) just to placate the religious right who were sick and tired of having the number of the beast showing up in their DAW.

;)


I blame Bill Gates.

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by Bub on Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:28 am
Lokeyfly wrote
kisnou wroteI'm curious to see what the Target Loudness feature actually does. Is it a limiter? Or is it more than that?

Good question.The loudness will always be held by some limiting factors, such as peaks, and very high transients. Reduce them and targeted loudness will be increase because everything else comes up. I'll have try Target Loudness out as well to see, but my guess is levels are simply normalized to the set LUFS by adjusting Peak only to get it in range.

One way to find out would be to take two of the same songs where one is already limited heavily in some usual pancake (squashed and louder) form ...


I've been doing some testing with this. I have a song I just finished using Ozone 9 Advanced. They have two limiters. One is called "Vintage Limiter" and the other is simply called "Maximizer".

I exported the song with the Maximizer set to automatically adjust to -14 LUFS/-1dB True Peak then I turned off the Maximizer and exported it with no limiting and did it in S1's Project page.

Results according to the Loudness Information in S1's Project page:

Non - Limited non - dithered 48K/32bit wav: -29.7 LUFS TP: L = -14.9dB R = -14.7dB

O9A Maximized 48K/24bit wav (Set to -14 LUFS/-1dB True Peak. S1's dithering off. Ozone's dithering on.): -16.3 LUFS TP: L = -1.6dB R = -1.5dB

S1's Loudness Export 48K/24bit wav (Set to -14 LUFS/-1dB Peak using S1's new dithering on.): -15.9 LUFS TP: L = -1.2dB R = -1.0dB

Then I dragged both 48K/24bit wav files in to a new 48K Song and did a null test and the difference was significant. I even tried to adjust the volume of one of the tracks to see if I could get it to null better and it couldn't. At 0 on the faders was the best spot.

So it seems there is compression and/or limiting going on as I can't imagine the dithering would make that noticeable a difference.

Shane

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by PreAl on Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:44 pm
Another thing I would like to see.
You may not see them, but we know QA looks at these forums in order to spot regression bugs, i.e. new bugs with releases. It would be *really nice* if they could post a list of bugs they've managed to reproduce as they go along, a sticky post... That way we don't need to keep second guessing, once it's confirmed, we know that it's on their list to be fixed in a future release, and we get on and make music rather than continue the loop of discussion.

In fact they've already started a known issue list, scroll to the bottom of this thread. It would be nice if they continue to update it

viewtopic.php?f=151&t=47328

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by Lokeyfly on Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:31 pm
Bub wrote
Lokeyfly wrote
kisnou wroteI'm curious to see what the Target Loudness feature actually does. Is it a limiter? Or is it more than that?

Good question.The loudness will always be held by some limiting factors, such as peaks, and very high transients. Reduce them and targeted loudness will be increase because everything else comes up. I'll have try Target Loudness out as well to see, but my guess is levels are simply normalized to the set LUFS by adjusting Peak only to get it in range.

One way to find out would be to take two of the same songs where one is already limited heavily in some usual pancake (squashed and louder) form ...


I've been doing some testing with this. I have a song I just finished using Ozone 9 Advanced. They have two limiters. One is called "Vintage Limiter" and the other is simply called "Maximizer".

I exported the song with the Maximizer set to automatically adjust to -14 LUFS/-1dB True Peak then I turned off the Maximizer and exported it with no limiting and did it in S1's Project page.

Results according to the Loudness Information in S1's Project page:

Non - Limited non - dithered 48K/32bit wav: -29.7 LUFS TP: L = -14.9dB R = -14.7dB

O9A Maximized 48K/24bit wav (Set to -14 LUFS/-1dB True Peak. S1's dithering off. Ozone's dithering on.): -16.3 LUFS TP: L = -1.6dB R = -1.5dB

S1's Loudness Export 48K/24bit wav (Set to -14 LUFS/-1dB Peak using S1's new dithering on.): -15.9 LUFS TP: L = -1.2dB R = -1.0dB

Then I dragged both 48K/24bit wav files in to a new 48K Song and did a null test and the difference was significant. I even tried to adjust the volume of one of the tracks to see if I could get it to null better and it couldn't. At 0 on the faders was the best spot.

So it seems there is compression and/or limiting going on as I can't imagine the dithering would make that noticeable a difference.

Thanks Bub. Good to know. Yes, just some simple global gain adjust would be too subtle, so they must have found an algorithm that uses slight compression and limiting, a pinch of sugar, and some Cajun secret sauce. Hence the null leakage.
Appreciated.
Anything I export in the Project Page, or all song faders, I never even look at other than making sure they are at unity.

You just reminded me I have to trial Sonnible Smart Limit this weekend. I'm slipping, (but I cooked one helluva meal tonight!). :P

Edit: I tried Smart Limit out. As I'm not big on AI, I did find smart limit gives results really fast, its those quick results I like to compare. So I guess it has its uses. I won't need it though.

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New song "Our Time"
https://youtu.be/BqOZ4-0iY1w?si=_uwmgRBv3N4VwJlq

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https://youtube.com/@jamesconraadtucker ... PA5dM01GF7

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by pixel_ale on Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:20 pm
These are fantastic additions, thank you!

Two things:

1. Going in and changing the nudge value is a bit of a pain, since the amount I need to nudge changes pretty frequently. Would love to be able to quickly bring up this box via key command, is that possible?

Image

2. I'd also love to be able to make the crossfade value be the length of the current selection. Would love to be able to select the end of one event into the beginning of the next and just hit a key command to make a cross fade of that length. Closest we have right now requires the "No overlap when editing events" option to be off, which is a pain most of the other time. Fast crossfades can be a dealbreaker when doing heavy edits and I think we're close, but it could be better!

jazzundso wrote
Robdp wroteI am seriously hoping (because I expected it by now to be honest) that we get the following:

Nudge features... (nudge by sample, milliseconds, beats etc..)

Fades......... being able to type in values for fades, or set up an automatic length value for cross fades. It's SO annoying having to zoom in, and manually change the length of a cross fade (because that process in itself its very awkward) for e try cross fade you do.
Isn't this exactly what my script extension provides?

Nudge Beats / Seconds / Frames / Samples:

Image

phpBB [video]


Robdp wroteFades......... being able to type in values for fades, or set up an automatic length value for cross fades. It's SO annoying having to zoom in, and manually change the length of a cross fade (because that process in itself its very awkward) for e try cross fade you do.
Isn't this exactly what you can do with the "Create Crossfades" commands? ;)

phpBB [video]
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by jazzundso on Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:11 pm
pixel_ale wrote1. Going in and changing the nudge value is a bit of a pain, since the amount I need to nudge changes pretty frequently. Would love to be able to quickly bring up this box via key command, is that possible?

Image

Sure, you can go into the Keyboard Shortcuts and assign a key command for "Nudge Events". You can also create macro buttons, each with different values (for the case want have presets for certain values you use more often).

Regarding crossfades, I'm not sure about your use-case. Yes, for the crossfade to work, you need "No overlap..." turned off. It's my default setting as well... - is there a special reason you enable this option?

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by j0001s on Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:59 am
Lokeyfly wroteLet's say a simple automation swell in the middle to raise the chorus. It would seem, once you make adjustments, and have to refer back to the song page to update, you lose everything. This is my guess. I always n knew they would be two entities, but I'd like to hear the capability of re applying previous edits.


It's there in the release. Can't remember the sequence, but it's something like holding down the cntl/cmd key when you drag the updated song in.

Marcus covers it in this video: https://marcus-huyskens-music.com/mh-music-blog/studio-one-55-update-the-project-page-new-features
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by Bub on Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:44 am
Lokeyfly wroteThanks Bub. Good to know. Yes, just some simple global gain adjust would be too subtle, so they must have found an algorithm that uses slight compression and limiting, a pinch of sugar, and some Cajun secret sauce. Hence the null leakage.


Did you see Joe's video on this? While I appreciate the video he didn't explain what it actually does. He did mention he had some Sphere exclusive video's about mastering. Maybe he explains it there ... :hunf:

I was shocked at the difference when I did the null test and the fact that trying to manually match volume did nothing, in fact made it worse. There is more going on there than simple dB and limiter adjustments.

Shane

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