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Middle C ist C4 in scientific notation and note 60 in MIDI.

Why does it appear as C3 in Studio One when I press middle C on the 88-key keyboard?
Is it possible to configure the DAW to show the correct note?
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by patrickviens on Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:45 pm
Back in 1982 when midi was developed Roland chose “C4” to represent Note 60. Yamaha, chose "C3" to represent note 60. Other manufacturers even call note 60 C2 or C5. Although the pitch of note 60 is always the same, there is no official note naming norm to this day. Hardware, Daw and plugin developers have to choose what they think is the best method.

Even the Scientific notation method is not yet a standard.

I am not aware of a Daw that offer the option to offset the note names. Some daws can display midi note numbers on their piano rolls which helps to alleviate the problem.

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by IanM5 on Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:13 am
Yep, there is no standard but I agree that there should be.

Heavy-handed moderation can strangle a forum
Or just make it a setting. There are several companies for virtual instruments where you can modify this in their sampler/player. Its just a visual thing, the actual MIDI data doesnt change.

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by shanabit on Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:19 pm
Hit that octave button on ya controller, VOILA

MIDI peoples can't agree on anything since its inception

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by fernandomaia on Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:33 pm
patrickviens wroteEven the Scientific notation method is not yet a standard.


On the contrary, since there is a scientific standard, everyone should be using it, for the same reason that nobody should be using imperial measurement units anymore, and with more intensity since in music it's so easy to change, it's just one digit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation

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by patrickviens on Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:08 pm
fernandomaia wrote
patrickviens wroteEven the Scientific notation method is not yet a standard.


On the contrary, since there is a scientific standard, everyone should be using it, for the same reason that nobody should be using imperial measurement units anymore, and with more intensity since in music it's so easy to change, it's just one digit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation



Everyone should be using it is not yet a standard. Per your article the Scientific notation concept is apparently 300 years old, but it has obviously never been universally adopted by anyone. For the time being, when people launch their daw or use their vintage, midi capable hardware, they have to think in terms of midi note numbers and frequency because manufacturers, daw and plugins companies still follow manufacturer X way of naming pitches.

The Midi association is coming up, with Midi 2.0, with a protocol to allow all these systems to interface correctly but what people would like, me included, is to have a way to configure the pitch names in daw X's piano roll.


Cakewalk : note 60 is named C5, Octave span starts a 0
Studio One : note 60 is named C3, Octave span is negative
Renoise : note 60 is named C3, Octave span starts a 0
Bitwig : note 60 is named C3, Octave span starts at 0
Ableton Live : note 60 is named C3, Octave span starts a 0
Hardware X or plugin X : it varies as much
Cubase, surprisingly, has naming format preference setting

You can see how much the Yamaha culture (the middle C= C3 culture) influenced everybody involved with Midi.

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by davidlarson6 on Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:18 pm
fernandomaia wrote
patrickviens wroteEven the Scientific notation method is not yet a standard.


On the contrary, since there is a scientific standard, everyone should be using it, for the same reason that nobody should be using imperial measurement units anymore, and with more intensity since in music it's so easy to change, it's just one digit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation


There's a natural impulse to buy into "scientific" arbitrary standards more readily into other arbitrary standards. There's no particularly good reason to apply this "scientific" standard to our work, considering that it's actually at odds with MIDI, a tool that we use all the time.

Not that the DAWs have it "right" either. Logically, Middle C should be C5, given that it's note 60 (fifth octave) of the digital standard we use.

Even the "correctness" of the example you gave (the Imperial measurement system) can be argued, as much of the Imperial system is binary (units are divided by 2 into next smaller units) and that makes it much easier to estimate quantities. Try cutting a pizza into 10 equal slices; it's much easier to do binary division of the pie. :D

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by guydumais on Wed May 31, 2023 4:55 pm
What really matters is to remember that when we're talking about Middle C, it means the C note that is tuned at 261.6Hz, regardless of the instrument.

Studio One's Tuner shows the Middle C as C4 (261.6Hz):
Studio One 6 Tuner.png
Middle C shown as C4 in Studio One's Tuner


But the MIDI editor shows it as C3:
Studio One Midi Keyboard.png
Studio One's MIDI editor playing middle C as C3.


Orchestral music convention is using C4 as Middle C:
Orchestra Flute instrument range.png
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by Lokeyfly on Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:22 am
guydumais wroteWhat really matters is to remember that when we're talking about Middle C, it means the C note that is tuned at 261.6Hz, regardless of the instrument.

Studio One's Tuner shows the Middle C as C4 (261.6Hz):
Studio One 6 Tuner.png


But the MIDI editor shows it as C3:
Studio One Midi Keyboard.png


Orchestral music convention is using C4 as Middle C:
Orchestra Flute instrument range.png



That's because on a tuner, middle C (261.6Hz) is C4. The discussion never was about its actual pitch, but that via MIDI, it is displayed as C3. It's an old thread and not really worth rehashing. Though the question will still come up from time to time.

You're concluding with what the original poster was asking. ;)
To your point, fortunately, a tuner keeps things in perspective. The MIDI protocol while much has been industry wide adopted, hasn't landed on absolute MIDI octave ID that is consistent with scientific means.

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by michaelherbert4 on Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:40 am
Yeah, with MIDI you actually have to think of it as a kind of transposition. And it is irritating, since something like 60 years ago (well before the MIDI protocol) the International Acoustical Society deemed Middle C as C4, which is the designation in EVERY music school and in EVERY music theory textbook, at least in the USA.

You'd think the MIDI developers would have adhered to that, but they inexplicably ignored it.

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by SwitchBack on Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:06 am
From the Inspector you can transpose tracks on input, so before input arrives at the instrument plug-ins. This should allow you to shift the input to the required octave, yes?
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by Lokeyfly on Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:53 pm
SwitchBack wroteFrom the Inspector you can transpose tracks on input, so before input arrives at the instrument plug-ins. This should allow you to shift the input to the required octave, yes?


Sure. It's really the right workaround. That would move the notes to their respective place, up one octave.

It doesn't impact me, but evidently for some who see B4 note played on their keyboard synth/sampler/controller expect B4 played in the DAW. Thats fair. The Track Inspector adjustment would allow incoming notes to shift. Or at least it should like in Cubase. I'd have to verify the shift is placed on the incoming notes. If not, then it's a fix, afterwards. Cubase shines in this sort of MIDI note and filtering adjustment.

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by PreAl on Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:52 pm
G needs to be removed from all notes because it doesn't comply with hexadecimal numbers

There I've had my say.

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