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Yeah Tac, in the case of MisterE's original post, his Korg keyboard had 3 sets of aux outs (stereo) which he could elect to pan his performance patch outputs, then having 6 separate mono outs.

Here, I see Andy has 2 x 1/4" (L/R) on the Roland DS. That won't be enough to divide his performance (multi) patch out at one time. He'll need to record the tracks separately. The number of outputs is the limitation in this case.

There might be some multi MIDI tracks, where VSTi instruments could record simultaneously but that's where he'll have to venture.

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by MisterE on Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:41 am
There have been some real-world distractions which have prevented me from getting more acquainted with the process of using those six multiple outs available on my M3 to feed S1 Aux Channels.

I did investigate enough to know that if someone is trying to get complex workstation "Combination" (as Korg calls them) sounds into S1 Aux Channels, it's going to take a clunky process involving making several passes. Many of those "patches" use all sixteen channels, or twelve or more is commonplace. That's not even including multiple drums in a drum kit, which typically consists of eight or so percussive instruments.

So, even having six outs, I'd still have to make at least three or four passes to get what I'm hearing in a stereo mix coming out of an M3 Combination into Studio One via Aux Channels (24 channels divided by six outs = four.)

Adding to the complexity, you also will have a lot of decisions to make about whether to "print" effects. You could print all, none, or some ... but you'll spend time making those kinds of decisions and more of it editing those sounds to taste.

Conversely, where the Aux Channel really shines is at handling simpler "Programs," where indeed we can as of V4x control volume and pan without having to commit to audio before we're satisfied with the tone and/or performance.

To record something as "exotic" as a complex Combination with a drum track which is really 8 individual sounds (could easily add up to 24 or so channels) in one pass, someone would have to purchase more specialized I/O hardware.

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by [email protected] on Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:28 pm
Tacman7 Thanks so much for responding so quickly. I didn't know how to add my system specs to the signature. They were in the 'description' bit of my profile which I thought would do the trick. I've now added them to my signature but just to be sure here they are:

Windows 10 Pro
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 870 @ 2.93GHz
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Studio One 5.5
Studiolive AR12 USB
Roland Juno DS Keyboard/Synth
Roland JV 1010 Synth

I'm simply confused about how S1 actually implements midi. I had assumed that I could use separate aux channels in S1 to control separate midi channels in my external synth. I can't. Whatever aux channel I set up controls the volume and pan etc of the entire external synth.

Of course I can bounce each midi track to audio and S1 automatically sets up an audio channel for each separate audio track I've bounced. But I cannot do this with each separate midi track.

Is there any way to accomplish what I am trying to do? If there is not, is the Presonus team open to developing this feature?

Windows 10 Pro
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 870 @ 2.93GHz
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Studio One 5.5
Studiolive AR12 USB
Roland Juno DS Keyboard/Synth
Roland JV 1010 Synth
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by [email protected] on Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:42 pm
Many thanks to MisterE and Lokeyfly for your thoughts! Still puzzling over this, but very appreciative of your comments.

Windows 10 Pro
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 870 @ 2.93GHz
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
Studio One 5.5
Studiolive AR12 USB
Roland Juno DS Keyboard/Synth
Roland JV 1010 Synth
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by MisterE on Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:44 pm
[email protected] wroteWhatever aux channel I set up controls the volume and pan etc of the entire external synth.
?

What you're missing is telling your hardware synth which MIDI channel to send data out to S1 Aux Channels on. You'll have to refer to your manuals for your specific gear, but I can assure you that Roland builds this capability into their hardware and S1 can handshake with it.

It may sound mystical and like a big hurdle, but you'll only have to figure this out once -- and then you'll be good to go for the long haul. Just relax if you don't get it right away; people think I'm intelligent and it took me a few attempts to wrap my head around it.
Last edited by MisterE on Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Lokeyfly on Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:07 pm
[email protected] wroteMany thanks to MisterE and Lokeyfly for your thoughts! Still puzzling over this, but very appreciative of your comments.


Yeah, this is right on target from Mr.E wrote
Mister E wrote: "Conversely, where the Aux Channel really shines is at handling simpler "Programs," where indeed we can as of V4x control volume and pan without having to commit to audio before we're satisfied with the tone and/or performance."
also makes me think if you have the dedicated outputs, great, but if not that's fine too.
In your case you have a main L & R out. Still your Roland can perform multiple instruments (Performance patches in Roland land), so build your compositions using the Roland as a workstation. When you have something really inspiring sounding you're really going to be able to track by track, add those parts into such a more capable workstation. Studio One. You won't have the voice limitations of a synth/sampler. You also won't have the MIDI limitations because while MIDI adjustments will be super easy, the ability to convert those tracks to audio and further with automation will allow much more natural swells, and more of a final stamp on the product. Still, before that, there's a whole host of fun DSP processing, mixing or blending of other instruments, and so on.

So just enjoy the Roland as it is, and track a little at a time. ;)

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by Jemusic on Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:15 pm
Roland synths can have 4 outs or two sets of stereo outs which can be handy at times. Not many hardware synths these days are going to give you multiple outs. It's too expensive to implement. Not like Kurzweil though in the good old days with 10 outs or 5 stereo pairs!

But if you do want to track everything separately then obviously multiple passes is the way to go.

I tend to keep each hardware synth I own to one stereo out but use lots of them instead of getting one to do many parts.

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by MisterE on Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:38 pm
Jemusic wrote
I tend to keep each hardware synth I own to one stereo out but use lots of them instead of getting one to do many parts.

Or mix and match with virtual instruments which are way easier for S1 to handle and for you to set up on the arrange page or a template.

There are only so many songs I'm going to want to record the M3 in three or more passes cause the advantage of being able to process each sound separately is negated by all the setup time involved.

To zoom out of individual Aux Channel setup and talk music production for a second, I'm from the school of thought which believes less is more, as in select a handful of great sounds for your arrangement as opposed to dozens of pretty good sounds stacked together. I'm completely confident that a lot of hardware synth songs you love only use like three or four sounds and manage to get the point across perfectly well. People are still loving, say, Kraftwerk today, and they're hardly using any MIDI channels. But what's there can stand the test of time. :D

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by Jemusic on Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:15 pm
I call what is behind the music the black backdrop. The black is the silence in the music. Or fewer parts making bolder statements. Kraftwerk is a masterclass in less is more and the black backdrop is huge in Kraftwerk. But even Dark Side of the Moon as complex as it is, also has a pretty clear black backdrop as well. Steely Dan has a great black backdrop as well.

The music should be like a painting with a black canvas and the parts should be bright coloured bits here and there. There should be plenty of black canvas behind. When people start putting in way too much, the black disappears and becomes grey instead.

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by MisterE on Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:45 pm
We're talking about some venerable acts "kids" don't necessarily know, but the same theory applies to techno bands like Depeche Mode. I mean, really, take a few Emulator II sounds, sprinkle in a couple of choice analog beast sounds here and there and what more could you want? Same with Duran Duran. All sorts of colossal hits with hardly any parts, just really well chosen sounds and players ... but mostly great songs.

I also watch a lot of ambient stuff on YouTube which "kids" perform, and, once again, they've got a couple of cute little boutique synths and maybe a drum machine and a tiny little keyboard controller and they crank out all sorts of interesting stuff.

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