Now that I've finally got my basic Aux Channel,/External Instrument/Audio Interface software issues resolved, I've been searching around and can't figure out if an Aux Channel hosting a multi-timbral synth can expand to separate various onboard sounds into their own mix channels like Instrument channels do with multi-output VSTIs.
If that's vague, let's say I want there to be separate mixer channels for the violin, cello, and trumpet sounds that are onboard my Korg M3 so that I can add different effects to each and control volume and pan. There would already be an Aux Channel created. I don't see a way to Expand to accommodate additional channels. All the tutorials I've seen assume you'd just want one sound coming from your External Instrument on your Aux Channel, or at least that's all they show, but I'd like to use several different sounds at once. Is this doable? If so, can anyone point me to a tutorial or explain the procedure? |
If I set that up properly, can I play just one take and have it record on say three separate Aux Channels? Or would I have to play the part three times?
I'd also have to figure out how to send MIDI data out on different MIDI channels on the M3, right? |
If you make an aux channel for all the midi channels you're using then you could record them all at once.
You could have just one aux channel for everything even though they all have separate tracks. You would have to record that one track at a time. Good way if you don't have the I/O. When you create the external instruments you lock in the midi channel you want to create the sound you want. So selecting that instrument on a track would send it to the right midi channel.
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OK, got the S1 part of it, thanks!
But do I also have to all tell the External Instrument which MIDI channel(s) to send various different sounds out on for S1 to receive? |
You can save a mix setup on a Yamaha keyboard so I would think they have something like that in the M3.
Yeah you'd have to have all the voices selected before you start, easier to do on the module I would think.
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I haven't tried multiple midi channels assigned to seperate mix channels. I.e. what for example Roland would call a Performance Patch. Actually I haven't tried this in S1 as yet, it was easy in Cubase and Logic. Not so in PT or as readily easy.
I think I'd try multiple inputs assigned to your M3, all on different MIDI channels. Then set your M3 as a performance patch and see how that goes. At least in the S1 early stages I read where performance setups weren't available (this was before multiple instruments could be placed on one track) prior to v3. Only, I never proofed it out because softsynth and sampler libraries became better and better. Still, I miss some of those external synth patches for their serious oscillator punch. Curious, if you set up for example one tracks input to "M3-Ch1-Orchestral Violins", then 8 other unique inputs per track, does Studio One hold and save them per that song(s)? As well as that Performance? So for example, open another new Instrument Patch. Select Input on that new track. Do you get a list of existing Inputs, as well as possibly the name of that Performance Patch on the M3? You did in Cubase, from its infancy. I'm asking for both myself, and obviously the OP to see if he tried that. Curious. Tacman7 wroteYou can save a mix setup on a Yamaha keyboard so I would think they have something like that in the M3. Yep, were my thoughts as well. On a Roland, this is stored/recalled as a Performance with independent MIDI channels per patch.
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From what I'm reading from the M3 manual, Programs are patches, and Combinations are Perdormances in Korg speak.
https://cdn.korg.com/us/support/download/files/bb69dfc9aafb4419e53b3254af0094fd.pdf?response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3DM3_OpG_E.pdf&response-content-type=application%2Fpdf%3B Page 65
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Sorry I was thinking about the yamaha keyboards with a lot of outputs.
The limitations to the amount of aux channels depends on your source, the M3 can do 3 stereo pairs. So how ever many voices you want to use on the M3 would be sent to one of the 3 outputs to hit one of the 3 aux channels. I think a combi was using all the resources to make complex performances.
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I would imagine a Korg M3 Combination could be set up with say 3 instruments all set for 3 different midi channels. 3 separate midi tracks should be able to address them at the same time. The three stereo output pairs could be connected to 6 audio inputs of the interface. (M3 would need to assign each part to its own stereo output) Carrying the 3 parts all in stereo and feeding 6 inputs on the interface. Then 3 stereo Aux tracks could be set up to accept all three stereo outputs at once.
As the M3 can handle up to 16 parts multi timbral you could also set up maybe 6 parts with 6 mono outputs as well feeding 6 mono interface inputs. (Each stereo out could carry two mono signals one panned Left the other right etc) Aux tracks can be stereo or mono, so 6 mono aux tracks could be created in this configuration.
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Sorry, I meant to say Combinations are Perdormances in Korg terminology. My brain and fingers were elsewhere.
Yeah, I think we're focusing on the same thing. Hopefully that gets MisterE trying that end of the 3 outs, along with assigned MIDI towards each patch in the M3, and for Studio One to recognize per input track, and MIDI channel. Like Jemusic, I use a MIDI Patchbay which helps on numerous MIDI hardware and does a real good job on the bookkeeping (Instrument, note on/off, program #s, sys ex). I just never delved into Korg gear. As good as it can be.
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Thanks for all the stimulating responses.
I should probably state what my ultimate intention is for the M3 + S1 combination. There are some combination patches which often use a handful of sounds and also have internal drum kits going at the same time. So what I'm looking for more than additional audio channels (yes, the M3 has three available pairs of stereo outs) is the ability to record like 10 or more MIDI tracks coming from the M3 into S1, hopefully in one pass, though there will be times I might want to record the drums separately or whatever. Also, since my workflow involves getting tracks "in the ballpark" for someone else to mix, I would think I'd only need to hear all the MIDI tracks play back through one set of stereo outputs. Correct me if I'm missing something that could be advantageous. |
Hi E, Hooe all is well my friend!
Uderstood. In one pass, remember, with external instruments if you want to keep discreet, isolated tracks, you're only as good as the amount of your interface inputs. So to get the 3 stereo, or perhaps 6 mono, you'll need 3 stereo, or 6 mono inputs. Your Mackie Blackbird Onyx interface at 16x16 won't hold you back. Try calling (with correct cabling) each S1 input track to one of those three M3 outs. Also try setting 3 different M3 instances in Studio One. i.e. One: M3 St Out A, two: M3 St Out B, three: M3 St Out C Assign each S1 track input to each of those three. Record enable each, etc. The MIDI end of it will be assigning each channel to each input. I would not use MIDI CHANNEL 1 as that would be your all purpose default channel. Try perhaps MIDI channels 11, 12, and 13 and you'd use 14 thru 16 if you can go mono on each. I always like the statement in the movie Contact (Carl Sagan). "Small moves Ellie, small moves". Like the other guys were saying, it's really down to how you configure the Combi's instrument wise on the M3. Then you can grapple with each aux M3 output to be assigned to your interface, and Studio One. Both signal wise, callout wise, and MIDI channel wise. Then you'd be set for either all in one pass, or individual tracking.
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I'm exploring all suggestions within the limits of holiday obligations and will report back when I can be more definitive!
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Lokeyfly wroteI haven't tried multiple midi channels assigned to seperate mix channels. I.e. what for example Roland would call a Performance Patch. Actually I haven't tried this in S1 as yet, it was easy in Cubase and Logic. Not so in PT or as readily easy. Some decent progress to report. I've got the M3 set to output 4 different mono sounds on 4 different MIDI channels 11-14 (set on the M3, not in S1, so yes, channels can be set on the M3) with 4 mono Aux Channels created in S1 to control them. This basically works, with the caveat it's still a little imperfect, probably cause it's so new and I really had to stand on my head to figure this advanced MIDI stuff out (I've spent the past 8 years doing mostly audio recording, augmented with MIDI tracks here and there, not the deep MIDI dive I'm taking now). When I say it works, I mean I can pan and control volume for each of the four sounds in the S1 mixer's Aux Channels. What's funky? A little bleed here and there I haven't quite traced down yet. And some held notes that won't turn off. Remember I'm also still familiarizing myself with the M3, which I've been reluctant to do since there are so many reports of its display failing ... but I really like it even though it's a decade old, so I'm figuring it out, too, and it can do a lot! I had to assign sounds 3-4 to two of the additional M3 outputs people noted -- there are six altogether; what works for four should also work for six. Yes, S1 holds the correct program change each time I load the song, or it does as long as I already have the M3 set in Combination mode. I'm not sure how to input a Bank number to tell the M3 it's a Combination, not a Program. As far as seeing that program name anywhere in S1 goes, well that may be a bridge too far away compared to Cubase. Let's just say I don't see it anywhere. No doubt I've thought long and hard about a move to Cubase for niceties like that, only at this point, not being one of the voluminous amount of symphonic composers suddenly coming out of the woodwork, I still get the feeling that at this point S1 is a lot smoother at every other process and I'd run into more workflow issues that annoy me in Cubase which wouldn't make up for the occasional MIDI improvement. S1 has caught up in a lot of MIDI areas, thankfully. And I refuse to demo a program that makes me buy a USB dongle ... although Steinberg promised to get rid of it, which is taking them longer than it took NASA to put a man in space. I'm also let down by the Steinberg/Yamaha partnership which IMHO hasn't done enough integrating high-end Steinberg interfaces (AXR4) and synths like Motif into Cubase. Meanwhile, at long last S1 finally features a guy with a room full of cool MIDI hardware in its tutorials, so at this point, I'll keep sorting things out till I get S1 MIDI working to my liking. I've pretty much demystified handling multiple-output VSTIs, I just have to get used to doing it in battle conditions, I'm still experimenting.
Last edited by MisterE on Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hey E. I certainly can't add to that. You covered some good ground! Glad you're taking the dive, and your remaining questions such as S1 holding combinations remains to be seen. Yeah, calling up the song should be fine. You'll probably somehow want to abbreviate the Combination in the song name, etc. The manual way is easy if the M3 Combination name is the same as the song. Templates and all that will come and make it easier. It might seem like a lot, but you're resolving as you go. I'd agree, Studio One in the long haul is the easier path. You don't need to be re learning when inspiration comes knocking.
The pan issue, if all is set up right should be hard pan as you have on the M3. The 6 stereo to mono fed signals into Studio One should then receive a unique signal when split per channel. Meaning on the S1 mixer, you could place that mono signal where you want in the L-R field. I'm sure some of the M3 stereo sound patches are great when left in Stereo so split it up as needed keeping the feel inspiring maybe some stereo, some mono). I suspect the leakage could be any effects within the M3 signal chain. Check that first, and try turning the effects full off. I know that sounds like a bummer but you can easily get some very inspiring effects from Studio One's, and third party effects on their own. It's a tradeoff. Glad it's working out! Best, James
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Yo, so panning works as you lay it out, no trouble getting each sound panned left, right, or center. I'll check on those effects. I haven't worked up to multiple stereo outputs yet, I may have to point some fans at my brain first
Next step is saving all that work so it's recallable, I was wondering if any of this older but clever video would help in this new situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rd4uIG ... oOneExpert I attached a screenshot so anyone curious can see the basic idea. As noted, MIDI channels were assigned on the M3, as long as you have all MIDI channels set to receive in S1, you should be good to go there. You can see the program assignment in the upper left corner; I'm actually using Combination Program 00 -- which the Inspector sees as Program 1, in the Internal D Bank -- which the Inspector sees as 3, cause for whatever reason it assigns A bank as 0, which it doesn't do for the programs! I'm not sure if this is a universal DAW thing or just a S1 thing. Anyone know if the MIDI spec provides for translating "Combination" (M3 talk) or "Performance" (Yamaha and others) programs with a Bank number that confirms to letter equivalents and differentiates them from single program sounds? Lastly, I only had to set program settings on one of the M3 tracks, no need to do that for all that I found so far. |
I suffer from the same problem described in this thread and I still haven't understood how to solve it.
I want to assign separate aux channel faders to separate external midi tracks. In that way I could use the faders on the console/mix page to control the output from these external midi tracks right along with the output of my audio tracks and internal instrument tracks. To be specific, if I put a Piano on Midi Ch 1, a Bass on Midi Ch 2, and an Organ on Midi Ch 3 in my Roland DS Synth, I want to control the Piano track by the fader of Aux Channel 1, the Bass track by the fader on Aux Channel 2, and the Organ track by the fader on Aux channel 3. I cannot yet figure out a way to do this. I could do this in Cubase over 20 years ago. Studio One seems far superior in so many respects but not this particular one! I have no problem connecting the synth. I can record separate midi channels from the synth into separate midi tracks in Studio One easily and play their audio back correctly through my mixer without a problem. I just cannot control volume, pan etc of the separate audio outputs of these midi tracks using faders in the console/mix view. I can do it with separate audio tracks and separate virtual instrument tracks but not separate midi tracks playing an external midi instrument. I simply cannot find a way to link a given external midi track to a given aux channel in such a way as to control level and pan - let alone effects. Yes I have watched Gregor's video about how Studio One separates tracks from channels and heard him say how great this is, but it isn't great for my particular use case. I know I could bounce a midi track down to an audio track and add pan, level and effects to that audio track/channel, but I find it so much easier to correct my mistakes in midi, listen to the result played against the other instruments, and make adjustments in midi, before I bounce down to audio. Is there anyone out there who knows how to link separate Aux Channels to control pan/level etc in separate midi tracks playing separate midi channels from an external synth? I would be really grateful to know how to do this! Any ideas? Thanks |
Welcome to the Forum!
I'm not quite understanding your setup, that's one reason I ask people to put their specs in their signature. So you have one midi port going to one synth? so it can play different sounds on different midi channels? Where does that audio get into S1 at? You have stereo in for each instrument? or they all have to share? Where the audio comes into S1 is what could be an aux channel. Sounds like you're wanting to send midi volume changes which would change the volume on the synth, but attenuating the audio coming into S1 better way. Midi volume has all sorts of problems working in DAWs.
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