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I'm finding some problems with MPE implementation. I will be brief as possible. I'm using a ROLI Lightpad Block configured for MPE mode in Roli dashboard. I have an Iconnect Midi2+ configured as an external instrument in S1 with MPE enabled to send MPE to an IPAD. Plug-ins have MPE enabled. Lightpad Block has MPE enabled in device config for S1.

1) LIFT is not passed through to the plug-in. Using Equator 2 (VST3) there isn't any change on the LIFT graph. I have confirmed the data is RECEIVED by S1 in the midi monitor. The value listed for note off will vary from 0 to 127 on RECEIVED, but when SENT it is always 0. I also imported a midi clip from Live that has LIFT recorded. When playing back, Equator 2 doesn't respond to lift. The same clip imported back into Live DOES still include the lift data and Equator 2 responds accordingly. I also tried this with Cypher 2 which is a VST2 plug-in. Still no LIFT. I don't see this category even listed in the note controller options in the editor which are only: Timbre, Pitch, Pressure.

2) Transmitting MPE data is bugged. I am trying to control Geoshred from my Lightpad Block (through Iconnect). I can see midi data working through to Geoshred but it isn't responding. When looking at the midi monitor, I can see NOTE ON / OFF received from Lightpad Block on multiple channels. However, the data being sent out to Iconnect does NOT include a NOTE ON. All the other data seems to be sent but not the key piece of data which is NOTE ON. That's why Geoshred doesn't respond but midi activity is seen. If I switch the Iconnect external keyboard config so it is NOT MPE, then it works but obviously not with MPE data.

This is really disappointing.

Windows 10 Home 64 bit, Intel I5-8400 with 8 Gb DDR4 / 16 Gb Optane, Steinberg UR12, Atom SQ, Launchpad X, Lightpad M Blocks, Studio One 5, Unify
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by jonemery on Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:00 pm
Per support, they are aware that MPE is broken in 5.4 and suggested rolling back to 5.3. No ETA on a fix.

Windows 10 Home 64 bit, Intel I5-8400 with 8 Gb DDR4 / 16 Gb Optane, Steinberg UR12, Atom SQ, Launchpad X, Lightpad M Blocks, Studio One 5, Unify
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by sintil8 on Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:57 pm
Hi jonemery,

Having recently come back to SO 1 ver 5, I have a lot to catch up on and had not noticed this. Thank you for raising this omission as it should be part of the MPE implementation.
Have you rolled back to ver 5.3 and tested to see if lift is responding on your system?

Seems a bit odd that the advice is to roll back to a previous version?

I can confirm that lift is not working for me either. Will be raising a ticket with support in due course.

Kindest regards

Sin

Asus Z790-f Mobo, Intel i9 13900k cpu (on chip graphics), Lots of DDR 5 ram, 4x Nvme 2TB Storage, RME FFUC 400.
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by Tacman7 on Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:43 pm
The fix should be in the next update.

I'm trying to learn and understand MPE myself.

Strike, velocity?
Pressure,
Glide,
Slide,
Lift.

Now those are going to show up in S1 as cc's?

I wanted to find that out to do testing with my QuNexus try those parameters on Roli software.

What's with lift? Sort of like backwards aftertouch? So if you're holding a chord played on an organ you could gradually lighten your touch in order to trigger what? Curious the uses for lift...

Interesting stuff

Thanks

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by sintil8 on Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:11 pm
Hiya Tacman,
lift is the speed at which you take off the pressure and so could impact on the tail of a note
A sharp release could alter the pitch or shorten or lengthen a reverb tail anything really, To assimilate what you said the reverse of strike and velocity as I understand it. But then I'm still learning this stuff myself.

One thing tho' it can be very expressive,,, a good vid to whatch on what it's capable of. Mr M Parisi playing Little wing on a seaboard. top marks for the air drum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh-hzbG5FzI

Who needs a guitar?

Best regards,

Sin

Asus Z790-f Mobo, Intel i9 13900k cpu (on chip graphics), Lots of DDR 5 ram, 4x Nvme 2TB Storage, RME FFUC 400.
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by jonemery on Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:45 am
Yes, LIFT is how quickly you release the note. It's not the easiest thing to control but the lightpad block surface is squishy so it can sense how fast you remove your finger. I find it best to activate it by pushing down a little bit to exaggerate the release. For example, a patch could add a ping on release if lift value is above a threshold. I've observed this in the midi stream as a value associated with the NOTE OFF. So it is the reverse of velocity (strike) which is transmitted as a value with NOTE ON.

As of yet, I have not rolled back to 5.3 to test.

Windows 10 Home 64 bit, Intel I5-8400 with 8 Gb DDR4 / 16 Gb Optane, Steinberg UR12, Atom SQ, Launchpad X, Lightpad M Blocks, Studio One 5, Unify
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by sintil8 on Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:04 am
I gave it a cursory run 5.3, same as 5.4. I have dropped a support ticket in to say 5.3 is the same?
But to be honest I didn't spend too much time or effort,

It would be comforting if Tacman would qualify what he's saying "The fix should be in the next update" ?
Has this been given the nod by a Dev or the management, please.

Anyway, best regards,

Sin

Asus Z790-f Mobo, Intel i9 13900k cpu (on chip graphics), Lots of DDR 5 ram, 4x Nvme 2TB Storage, RME FFUC 400.
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by jonemery on Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:53 am
sintil8 wroteI gave it a cursory run 5.3, same as 5.4. I have dropped a support ticket in to say 5.3 is the same?
But to be honest I didn't spend too much time or effort,
Sin


Thanks for doing the rollback, were you able to see if NOTE ON is sent when external instrument is configured to use MPE or did you just look at LIFT? My bigger problem right now is the missing NOTE ON message sent to external instrument.

Windows 10 Home 64 bit, Intel I5-8400 with 8 Gb DDR4 / 16 Gb Optane, Steinberg UR12, Atom SQ, Launchpad X, Lightpad M Blocks, Studio One 5, Unify
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by sintil8 on Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:04 pm
I was just about to shut the web off and caught your post.

I set up an external instrument, the funny thing was that if I selected MPE inst in the ext inst all of the channels selectors were greyed out?

Any way after pulling up the Midi monitor zilch {OUT} note on data to the outboard.
The seaboard was sending to the channel but nothing in the way of note ON data was being sent outward bound. As you describe note off was being sent but no note on. Strange?

I went back to the Ext instrument setup and unchecked the the MPE box the chnl selectors all lit again. Went back and run the Midi Mon again and SO 1 was showing notes being sent to the external inst?
Have you tested after unchecking MPE in the ext inst settings.

This is observed via Midi Monitor as I don't have any external hardware synths these days, so this is not a real test in the sense of having an instrument waiting to make a sound,

Anyway gotta get off here.

Regards,

Sin

Asus Z790-f Mobo, Intel i9 13900k cpu (on chip graphics), Lots of DDR 5 ram, 4x Nvme 2TB Storage, RME FFUC 400.
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by jonemery on Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:47 pm
Yup, you defined it exactly. So both problems I identified in 5.4 are in 5.3.

When you select MPE, all midi channels are greyed out because now it will use all of them. MPE is basically allowing a midi channel to be assigned in real time to each note as it is played. Midi channel 1 is typically a master channel. But then if you play a 3 note chord, you would have each note sent on a different midi channel other than channel 1. This allows note pitch bend / etc just on that note so it doesn't affect the other two notes. So now all your parameters can be modified PER NOTE by using a separate midi channel PER NOTE.

I'm trying to send MPE to an IPAD where I have the Geoshred app (which also has some SWAM instruments available). But SWAM needs to receive as MPE and will not respond to regular midi input. Even though Geoshred itself responds to regular midi, you can't get the level of control as when using MPE.

Bottom line, I do hope this is resolved in the next update.

Windows 10 Home 64 bit, Intel I5-8400 with 8 Gb DDR4 / 16 Gb Optane, Steinberg UR12, Atom SQ, Launchpad X, Lightpad M Blocks, Studio One 5, Unify
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by sintil8 on Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:18 pm
Hi again,

I feel your frustration!

I was dragged back to my old ver 6.5 ***SlowBerg we need a dongle*** after I got my Roli for recording MPE and
never upgraded to ver 4 of SO1. This why I am catching up reading the forum now.
I prefer using SO1, so when they announced MPE was available I jumped.
I expected problems as MPE is a revolution in Midi development. I signed off on that fact when upgrading to ver 5.

I have read a lot on MPE and have a reasonable idea of the difficulty in running MPE.
There is a downloadable PDF that lays it out on the Roli site, ;) scroll to the bottom of page.

https://support.roli.com/support/soluti ... nstruments

I have also received a reply from support, but from the content and wording there was nothing specific said,
I don't think they can say a lot until if its being worked on.
Just a keep an eye out for bug fixes in the update release notes is the hint?
They have said they are aware of the issue which is a good sign, Yes.

We now wait and hope the management are giving a christmas bonus this year.

Regards,

Sin

Asus Z790-f Mobo, Intel i9 13900k cpu (on chip graphics), Lots of DDR 5 ram, 4x Nvme 2TB Storage, RME FFUC 400.
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by Tacman7 on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:03 pm
5.4.1 is out today. See if it address your MPE problems.

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by sintil8 on Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:49 am
Hiya Tacman,

I don't really know what to say at this point.

My initial answer is no, if I play Equator2 in standalone mode the graph display for lift has a
yellow dot that registers lift and is visibly active.

This is not registering in SO1 when Equator2 is used as a VSTi.
In my defence I am a registered idiot, so I might be misunderstanding and am hopeful that someone might have insight where my knowledge is lacking. I am contemplating firing an enquiry email to Roli to see if they can offer some guidance?

Perhaps jonemery can comment on the note "ON" going out, as that is what is mentioned in the update.

It would be helpful if the terminology was standardised to help understand what is being discussed.

Anyway as always best regards

sin

Asus Z790-f Mobo, Intel i9 13900k cpu (on chip graphics), Lots of DDR 5 ram, 4x Nvme 2TB Storage, RME FFUC 400.
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by jonemery on Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:04 am
I haven't had a lot of time to dig into how well it works but I did take a quick look. The Note ON is now sent but the lift (note off velocity) is ignored and is NOT passed back out to external devices. This image shows Note ON going out with exact strike velocity while Note OFF velocity is sent as 0.

However, the send channel is 1. This should be the master channel for MPE and not used for note data. You can see the Lightpad block notes when pressed at same time are received on 13 and 14, but both are sent on 1. I don't know what will happen when I actually connect an MPE device to receive this data since both notes are sent on the same channel which is not MPE.

I also looked at other midi data like CC and pitch. At first it seemed like they were not getting sent at all. I messed around and then it did appear they were being sent, so at this point I can see we are making progress but I'm not sure how well everything is fully working. For sure, lift is not. I probably won't be able to dig deep until middle of next week.

PXL_20211015_143334663.jpg

Windows 10 Home 64 bit, Intel I5-8400 with 8 Gb DDR4 / 16 Gb Optane, Steinberg UR12, Atom SQ, Launchpad X, Lightpad M Blocks, Studio One 5, Unify

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