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The Transform to rendered audio function (Freeze Tracks) desperately needs an update to include a checkbox to render pre-fader/pan so that the fader/pan setting is not reset to zero when transformed and then reverted back to its original setting when returning to untransformed audio.
Fader/pan need to be optionally independent of the transformed audio.
For example, right now if you transform a track that has your fader set to -3 db and the pan set to hard right, the resulting track after transforming will be a track with the pan and volume fader returned to centre and zero… then if you decide to change the pan or volume fader settings, or write automation to the transformed track and then later decide to revert to the original untransformed audio, you will lose your changes and the fader/pan settings will revert to what the untransformed setting was. This is highly counter intuitive and inconvenient for most workflows where a lot of mixing happens during production.

One use case is when you have large groups of tracks with lots of plugins running (like a drum mix) and you want to take the load off the cpu while you work on other aspects of the production, but still want to have control over volume fader and pan settings. Maybe turn up the kick, or turn down the snare… The current transform feature does not fully allow for this. Instead you get your entire drum mix faders at zero and if you want to turn down that snare? That change is only temporary unless you don’t return to untransformed audio.

Lastly, one other HUGE issue with transforming audio tracks is that it deletes all layers that a track has during transform and does not bring them back when transforming back. I have lost many a secondary comps accidentally forgetting that is the case when transforming.

I am begging you Presonus as it’s the only feature that I feel is a dealbreaker for me with studio one and i’ve used it since version 2. This workflow needs a revamp and it needs it ASAP. No matter how powerful our computers get, having a well thought out and efficient freeze/render function system will be a must. Check out Reapers freeze/render functionality for reference on how it should be done properly.

I submitted a feature request for this years ago and have been patiently waiting since version 2 so please if you agree with me and haven’t already voted for this feature, i’d be very grateful if you’d consider adding your vote to the cause.

https://answers.presonus.com/18066/pre- ... 066#q18066

Thanks to everyone in the community, I love Studio One and know that one day it will be the absolute undisputed standard for the recording industry based one how i’ve seen it grow over the years.
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by Lokeyfly on Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:56 am
vseanv wrote......one other HUGE issue with transforming audio tracks is that it deletes all layers that a track has during transform and does not bring them back when transforming back. I have lost many a secondary comps accidentally forgetting that is the case when transforming.

Hi vseanv, I didn't read all of your post. If I want to bypass any mixer influenced renders, I simply stem with tracks (you can elect to stem into new tracks within the song and not just stem out). Stemming with tracks avoids FX sends, but if I recall, will still be governed by mixer fader and pan, as some years back I had to prove pre and post fade didn't change when stemming to a fellow user misrepresenting that. Things may have changed, and your points still valid. I can appreciate the expanded freeze render choices. When stemming, there are a number of render choices. Some may apply, some not.

As to your above point, I'm simply not getting those results with losing comps, so I'm wondering what it is you're doing. If I render in a comped track, all of the audio comps are still there after bouncing. Always. Even if I move the events to new locations on the same track.
I can even edit afterwards in Melodyne, bounce again, and still promote comped layers where desired. As to transforming back, we'll sure, if one bounces or alters a render, the return to an instrument track would be altered. Mileage may vary.

So maybe we can help with that. You still should be getting the expand layers selection in the left of the tracks select region. I'm guessing, you copied to a new track, then rendered which would not hold layers.

Anyway, I think the fix might be in on a number of your requests.
Let us know. We're users helping and not support so go easy on us. ;)
Screen captures may help here.

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by vseanv on Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:52 am
Lokeyfly wrote
vseanv wroteAnyway, I think the fix might be in on a number of your requests.
Let us know. We're users helping and not support so go easy on us. ;)
Screen captures may help here.



Hi Lokey, thanks so much for your reply, unfortunately the workflow I am describing is strictly to do with the current track transform feature and it's functionality. Creating stems is not the intended use case for this, it is simply to have a quick and easy way to render CPU heavy tracks without effecting their Pan and Fader setting, without creating new tracks. In Reaper, Pro Tools, Cubase, Ableton, Logic and pretty much every other DAW, the freeze functionality functions as pre-fader/pan rendering so that the fader and pan setting/automation remains the same between the Frozen and unfrozen state. Currently studio one functions essentially as a "stem in place" IE creating an entirely new stem of the original track and just replacing it's track with the new track.

As for the losing comps, it also only pertains to Track Transform... Do me a favour and try this... create a track, record on to it, create a new layer, record onto that, create a third layer and record onto that so that you have three layers.. Then create a fourth layer and create a comp on the fourth, add an effect to the track so we have something to render like a compressor then right click and select "transform to rendered audio". The result will be a track with a rendered version of your 4th layer and all other layers gone. Then right click on the track and return to realtime state... The result will be the 4th comped layer in realtime state but the track layers will still be gone, so in transforming you have lost all other track layers. This is a HUGE problem that needs fixed or it renders the Transform function basically useless on any tracks with layers.

I understand that my post was long (as is this one) and I appreciate you taking the time to read and reply, AND please understand I mean this in the most polite way possible, but it would help for you to read the entire post to get clarity on what I am trying to explain here to avoid confusion with similar/related workflows that have different use cases.

When I get some time this week I will create a little video to explain in full detail what I mean to illustrate clearly how much of an improvement this would be.

All the best, thank you again!
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by Lokeyfly on Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:39 am
Ok, I'll try that test out. It will take likely a few days, it it's here for others to try if they so offer.

Yeah, I only brought up stemming because that path can effectively render onto new tracks, with options. Understood, that not meeting your needs.

I get it it though. It's more towards the conventional rendering, and then losing that data once changed back.
I know I've already experienced this, and that IS a problem. Particularly when one is trying to render to simply gain performance, then when they go back, they lose valuable comp/instrument data.

I've even used the handle with kit gloves thing and did a full duplication of the track (with instrument), then render the duplicate track. So my workflow even validates what you're saying. :)

I'll test again, and maybe we can get some FR (if it's not there already).

This along with another similar item work until.... in Studio One, and that should be brought up, and soon.

The other item, not to muddy the waters but to show undesired change occurs is renaming a song. It works, until it doesn't! :roll:
Thanks man, talk soon.
Any support or validation to vseanv's point and test, appreciated.

S1-5.2, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen Laptop, 16 GB ram,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD) and 1 TB SSD (both Internal). Audiobox 22 VSL, Audiophile 192 -Arturia Keylab 49 MkII, Novation SL25 MKII, Faderport 8, Roland JV-90, Roland GR-50, Roland Octapad, Akai MPD-18. MIDI Patchbay: MOTU 8x8, - Mackie HR824, Yamaha HS-7, Mixer: Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6.

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by Lokeyfly on Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:26 pm
vseanv wrote: create a track, record on to it, create a new layer, record onto that, create a third layer and record onto that so that you have three layers.. Then create a fourth layer and create a comp on the fourth, add an effect to the track so we have something to render like a compressor then right click and select "transform to rendered audio". The result will be a track with a rendered version of your 4th layer and all other layers gone. 


Ok, tried this and it is as you say, but there might be some convention of a comped track here at play.

I thought earlier you transformed back and lost the instrument and it's layers.

What you describe is that Studio One defaults in promoting the last comped layer. When I comp, just me, but I always make a continued run of perhaps 4 to 6 layers. That said, I don't render anything. I promote sections of whatever layer, I then merge the main track layer, and then bounce that event. This keeps the layers always available (movable, etc.) as I had mentioned earlier. Please try that and see if you can expand or close those layers.
Note: Rendering handles the whole track and all its events, which I believe in your case might be too extreme. Bouncing keeps the integrity of the layers. If you wanted to separate comps from a single track (without comps), you'd create a new track to maintain any individual layer/effects integrity. *Mmv of course.

FWIW, *Studio One also allows the comped layers to be changed to individual tracks, and vice versa.

You should also be able to differentiate this type of comped track from a non comped track in two ways.
1. By right clicking at the left most tracks, and seeing "expand layers" or if already expanded to close them.
2. Right click on the event itself, and choose to view in audio pool. This will reveal the highlighted audio clip with shaded sections of those comped takes or passes.

When I render, it's usually just to gain some CPU horsepower back or I'm closing the book, and letting that track be strictly audio and processed by means of Melodyne or other DSP. In your case, you're still wanting layers, but I'd try bounces first.

Anyway, hoping this solves at least some, or one issue.
:thumbup:

P.s. if you're comping in steps as described and in some passes, now using effects, and changing up, I'm thinking just create new tracks? If you then render the comped layer, you have your other tracks.

S1-5.2, HP Omen 17" i7 10th Gen Laptop, 16 GB ram,512 GB TLC M.2 (SSD) and 1 TB SSD (both Internal). Audiobox 22 VSL, Audiophile 192 -Arturia Keylab 49 MkII, Novation SL25 MKII, Faderport 8, Roland JV-90, Roland GR-50, Roland Octapad, Akai MPD-18. MIDI Patchbay: MOTU 8x8, - Mackie HR824, Yamaha HS-7, Mixer: Yamaha Promix 01, Rane HC-6.

Latest song releases on Bandcamp -
 
Latest albums on iTunes

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by vseanv on Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:28 pm
Lokeyfly wrote
P.s. if you're comping in steps as described and in some passes, now using effects, and changing up, I'm thinking just create new tracks? If you then render the comped layer, you have your other tracks.


Hey Lokey thanks for the reply again, and for your efforts to try to figure out a workflow for this. I appreciate all your ideas but they are imo at best, messy work arounds that don't address the core issue... The Transform to Rendered audio function, which is in Studio One as a means of rendering CPU heavy tracks in order to relieve CPU usage while still offering a means for returning back to the un-rendered version easily is currently incomplete at best and broken at worst. I am not looking to create further comps after rendering, I am just not wanting to have lost my layers once I return to the un-rendered state. In every other DAW that has a freeze function as well as a takes/playlist/lanes system much like Studio One, you do not lose your layers when returning to un-rendered.

Imagine you have say 5 vocal tracks all comped with a lot of heavy processing on them like Melodyne or Auto-Tune and some compression, EQ etc.. Your main layer that is playing back is a comp but in the other layers is your original takes and perhaps maybe a couple other comp options but the 5 tracks are taking a lot of CPU and you want to do some guitar overdubs which also use some CPU heavy plugin. So to alleviate the CPU you decide to transform those tracks to rendered audio, do your overdubs and then afterwards want to tweak the vocal tracks again or switch to a different comp... When you return the vocal tracks to the real time state all the layers are gone... That should not happen, ever. It should simply not function like this.

I understand you can bounce to new tracks but that creates an unnecessarily long workflow and creates a bunch of extra tracks. It's definitely a work around for the layer issue, but does not fix the issue about resetting your fader level/pan setting. This is why DAWS have freeze functions to begin with, so that you can take pressure off the CPU when you need without the need to fully commit to every decision on a track before you want to. And it's the intended idea behind the Transform to rendered audio feature in Studio One... But it currently is only about 50% there and needs an overhaul. Hence the feature request and why i'm trying to spread the word to get votes.

Yes there are other ways to achieve similar results, but all of them are not as straightforward and easy as just right clicking on a track/s and pressing transform to rendered audio. So it should be fully implemented.

Cheers.
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by vseanv on Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:14 pm
Bump.
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by vseanv on Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:18 pm
I gotta have more freeze options.
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by vseanv on Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:39 am
I got a fever... and the only prescription, is Pre-fader Track Transform.
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by vseanv on Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:35 am
Politely bumping because every day I use Studio One and it's such a joy to use and this is the ONLY huge feature I need for my workflow.

Help me Studio One Community, You're my only hope!
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by Vocalpoint on Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:17 am
vseanv wrotePolitely bumping because every day I use Studio One and it's such a joy to use and this is the ONLY huge feature I need for my workflow. Help me Studio One Community, You're my only hope!


I only hope you have created a true Feature Request for this - because if it's not a mission critical break/fix item that is really effecting S1 operation right now - you might have to bump this until the end of time and even then - nothing would come of it.

To my knowledge - the devs don't look here for our woes and wishes and dreams - they build their roadmap from the feature request area along with a healthy dash of what they believe will be the most useful features to the widest number of existing (and potentially new) customers as possible.

I have been trying to get a DEV lens on having Studio One integrate correctly with iZotope RX (to use the Connect plugin as designed) for about 4 years now and even with a feature request, some bumps of it and placed very long ago - still no joy.

Bottom line - you could be waiting a while.

Cheers

VP

DAW: Studio One Professional 5.4.0.66465 | Host Platform: Windows 10 20H2 | Motherboard: ASUS ProArt z490-Creator | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB | Graphics: Intel UHD Graphics 630 (HDMI @ 1920 x 1080) | Audio Interface: RME HDSPe Multiface II (v4.38) | OS Storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe M2 (500GB) | Media Storage: Samsung 860 EVO SSD (500GB) | Sample Storage: Seagate FireCuda ST1000DX002 SSHD (1TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by vseanv on Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:34 am
Vocalpoint wrote
vseanv wrotePolitely bumping because every day I use Studio One and it's such a joy to use and this is the ONLY huge feature I need for my workflow. Help me Studio One Community, You're my only hope!


I only hope you have created a true Feature Request for this - because if it's not a mission critical break/fix item that is really effecting S1 operation right now - you might have to bump this until the end of time and even then - nothing would come of it.

To my knowledge - the devs don't look here for our woes and wishes and dreams - they build their roadmap from the feature request area along with a healthy dash of what they believe will be the most useful features to the widest number of existing (and potentially new) customers as possible.

I have been trying to get a DEV lens on having Studio One integrate correctly with iZotope RX (to use the Connect plugin as designed) for about 4 years now and even with a feature request, some bumps of it and placed very long ago - still no joy.

Bottom line - you could be waiting a while.

Cheers

VP



Hey Vocalpoint!

Thanks for replying! actually yes, the original post on this thread links to my feature request that I originally posted in 2017. It currently has over 120 votes and this thread is my effort to get more votes and spread the word on it’s value as a feature. So if you wouldn’t mind, i’d extremely appreciate it if you went to the request and cast your vote!

Thanks again cheers.
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by bailatosco on Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:53 am
You're doing god's work here, vseanv, keep it up. :D

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by vseanv on Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:04 am
bailatosco wroteYou're doing god's work here, vseanv, keep it up. :D



Thanks man, I saw your vote and comment on the FR thanks so much! Really appreciate it. It definitely is a huge omission! Really hope we can get the FR Numbers up and convince other users why this would be such a huge upgrade to the current system!
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by Vocalpoint on Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:13 am
vseanv wroteSo if you wouldn’t mind, i’d extremely appreciate it if you went to the request and cast your vote! Thanks again cheers.


Voted up!

Cheers

VP

DAW: Studio One Professional 5.4.0.66465 | Host Platform: Windows 10 20H2 | Motherboard: ASUS ProArt z490-Creator | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB | Graphics: Intel UHD Graphics 630 (HDMI @ 1920 x 1080) | Audio Interface: RME HDSPe Multiface II (v4.38) | OS Storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe M2 (500GB) | Media Storage: Samsung 860 EVO SSD (500GB) | Sample Storage: Seagate FireCuda ST1000DX002 SSHD (1TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by vseanv on Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:44 pm
Vocalpoint wrote
vseanv wroteSo if you wouldn’t mind, i’d extremely appreciate it if you went to the request and cast your vote! Thanks again cheers.


Voted up!

Cheers

VP


Thanks so much!! Really appreciate it!

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