Vocalpoint wroteAll I want to know is why iZoTope RX7/8 Connect functionality continues to be a hard "No" in Studio One where it works in pretty much every other competing DAW perfectly. Pretty much every other DAW? It only works in... Avid Pro Tools 10+\ Avid Media Composer Adobe Audition Steinberg Cubase Steinberg Nuendo ...according to: https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/ar ... onnect-FAQ That's hardly any DAWs that support it. No Live, Logic, Bitwig, Digital Performer, Sonar, etc. A few allow you to use RX as an external audio editor, but that's a very different thing. In reality, the question you should be asking is: why the fudge haven't Izotope turned RX into a single ARA plugin? That would make much more sense. Unfortunately, they'd make you subscribe to get the update.
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Funkybot wrote Pretty much every other DAW? It only works in... Well - I did say "competing" DAWS - for this type of work - I do not consider Live, DP, Bitwig or even Sonar to be in the loop. Must admit - surprised that Logic is not supported but then again - I have no experience or knowledge on any of these. When talking direct "competition" to S1 (in my specific circles) it's really only ever PT, Nuendo/Cubase or Audition. It would be nice to be able to keep up with these guys when using RX7/8. Cheers VP
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RX as ARA would be a total dream.
But maybe just external editor? That's not a lot to ask for a daw that claims to be professional, it should have been done ages ago and I don't think that kind of feature is difficult to implement. BUT, on the other hand, I could not find a single feature request for an external editor, the closest is a "question" about it that has 11 votes, so that's not a good look. If you find one let me know. |
In terms of features, what baffles me are simple things that I think are structural for what is essentially a RECORDING application.
How is it possible that loop recording doesn’t have a different selection range for the loop and the actual recording? As a musician, this is a glaring omission and I for one, would gladly trade the whole Show Page thing for this. Honestly… Either I’m a very weird musician or it seems to me this is a very basic and fundamental thing that should be present since version 1.0. I know there’s a feature request for this that I’ve already up voted, but the initial request is from 2015 or 2016. I just don’t get their choices. Another one: I was a software developer in a previous life so I think I have a decent grasp on what is an easy or complex feature to develop. I can’t imagine that what I’ll be talking about next would take more than a few hours to code. Maybe I’m wrong but I honestly can’t think why. So, what I’m talking about is I don’t get how there isn’t an option in the settings for disabling the mouse wheel from changing parameters in the mixer. There’s not a single time when I’m working in S1 that I don’t accidentally change something in the mixer, whether it’s volume, pan or the track color. By the way, this is the same mouse wheel that you use for scrolling or zooming everywhere else in S1 and in other DAW’s. Suddenly, there’s an area on the screen that the mouse wheel changes stuff that it is not supposed to change. Just add an option for either disabling it or have it working only while using a key+mouse wheel! Try working in a Mac with a super sensitive Magic Mouse - which by the way probably 99% of Mac users do - and watch your mix getting messed up by the lightest touch on your mouse (which reminds me, an option to control mouse acceleration and sensitivity is sorely needed in Macs. For example, side scrolling with the Magic Mouse is fine, but zooming is WAY too sensitive. Just fire up Logic and compare…) Once again, there’s a feature request for this (once again, what I imagine is a very simple thing to implement comparing to the Song Page) but it doesn’t get any traction. And it’s baffling to me because it messes with a fundamental thing - screwing your mix - that doesn’t get fixed. The mouse wheel is fundamentally for SCROLLING in virtually every software. Suddenly using it for value changes throws people off. Just search the forum for mouse wheel and see how many scattered posts relate to this issue. Someone was even asking for a way to lock the mixer so they don’t mess it up by accident, all because of this dumb feature. Maybe I’m missing something here, but I would love to be able to speak for 5 minutes with one of the developers and pose this questions. Having said all this, I still think S1 is a fine piece of software that is so close to being much better if the focus turned to re-evaluate some basic things instead of adding new, big stuff. |
This is one of those moan threads that keep on giving.
Another even more obvious glaring omission is no reverse loop (skip ahead) where dragging the left loop marker past the right allows the play head cursor to skip forward (as it already does backward). It's an instantaneous way to find musical transitions and has been around sequencers and DAW's alike from the (uhem) 80's. Would you like an in depth list? I could provide one. Also one of the most fundamental programing routines in any sequence instruction in any language. To imagine implementing the loop skip ahead feature should require some kind of vote is beyond Reason (Did I say that?). and yet it's been brought up umteen times mostly be me, and the subject always gets support from DAW users from Logic, Cubase, Sonar, DP, and others. I've given up repeating it, but thought I might as well squawk one more time. The feature request area is so fragmented in the FR section that the numbers I suspect haven't met the beauty pageant requirements required for some bean counter to properly tally up the necessary requests, walk down the hall and inform the development department. https://answers.presonus.com/9086/skip-section-using-loop In the final analysis, other than the lack of a loop reverse (skip ahead) feature, Studio One has been a very productive tool for song writing/production and STILL holds some of the best breakthrough features of any DAW (I've used and lived with most of them). Shhhh, don't say that too loud, or they'll get all heady, and work on something new, without tidying up what should already be there. As to the lack of a loop skip forward feature, just give me three minutes with one of Presonus' dev's. I've all but given up on the bean counter. Where is he/she by the way? P.s. Logic thought enough of the reverse loop feature to even include with manual dragging, a switchable button thereby allowing loop to reverse in place. This is real world usage of very simple programming instruction. I believe "elegant" is the word. Reversed status includes a different color (or stripe) over the loop bar. How thoughtful.
Last edited by Lokeyfly on Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I realize that not every user’s favorite feature can be added to a certain DAW. But in my previous post I mentioned a “feature” that easily can mess your work - I’m talking about the mouse wheel changing values on the mixer. Don’t you think that something in an application that makes it very likely to mess your work this can be considered a FUNDAMENTAL design flaw?
I don’t know if anyone here is an UX/UI designer in the forums that can chime in, but it seems to me that the mouse wheel thing is a very bad idea that Presonus implemented in Studio One and one that can’t be hard to fix - just add an option to disable the mouse wheel behavior on the mixer. I used to develop software developer for a living so I think I have a better than average notion of what’s hard or easy to implement. As an example, I have another post in the forums regarding problems I’m having using the dropout protection in Studio One. I may be wrong, but I imagine this feature involves the use of two distinct audio buffers in Studio One, one for keeping a low latency for recording and another one to keep the rest of your plugins going. I get errors when using this with my UAD plugins reporting they can’t work with different buffer sizes, whatever. What I’m getting here is that I realize this is a complex software problem to address, so I’m not expecting a solution from PreSonus just for people like me that use UAD stuff. But adding an option for disabling the mouse wheel on the mixer to prevent messing with it can’t be a terribly complicated addition and it’s these types of things not getting addressed that leaves me disappointed. I can’t help but wonder, if anyone on the design team ever worked with Studio One for a few hours on a Mac using a Magic Mouse? How many time suddenly your track changed color or your volume is now - 7.4 without them noticing doing it? Remember, in every other app that I know the mouse wheel is for SCROLLING! Suddenly, there’s an app where in a certain area of the screen the mouse wheel changes values. If this is not bad design I don’t know what it is… |
OneFingerSnap wroteI realize that not every user’s favorite feature can be added to a certain DAW. But in my previous post I mentioned a “feature” that easily can mess your work - I’m talking about the mouse wheel changing values on the mixer. Don’t you think that something in an application that makes it very likely to mess your work this can be considered a FUNDAMENTAL design flaw? There should be a switch to dissable it for those it impacts. I haven't come across it, but I have found areas when scrolling to stay away from. For example scrolling vertically on the arrangement area and not the left most tracks column where fields can easily adjust from mouse over positioning. For horizontal scrolling, avoiding where the faders or pan positions is the no go zone. Instead scroll horizontally over the upper mixer section, or the arrangement view. I do like being able to adjust fields without having to purposely Gluck the field first, but theiein lies the danger of potentially scrolling over and changing something unintended. So, I'd agree some option should be there for user preference. Lastly, many to most controllers have track movement, so that can help. Add or locate the FR for the option, and I'll certainly vote for it. i don't believe anyone's issue is any worse or severe than anyone else's.
Last edited by Lokeyfly on Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lokeyfly wroteOneFingerSnap wroteI realize that not every user’s favorite feature can be added to a certain DAW. But in my previous post I mentioned a “feature” that easily can mess your work - I’m talking about the mouse wheel changing values on the mixer. Don’t you think that something in an application that makes it very likely to mess your work this can be considered a FUNDAMENTAL design flaw? You see Lokeyfly, that’s the thing - you shouldn’t have to be so careful. If something requires that much attention it’s by definition bad UI design. And there’s a feature request (or more) for this already. I’ve already voted on it. |
If you provide it, I'll vote for it. I can tell you, I'm not looking for it.
Anyway, let's see what future features develop. That's about all this thread is going to do is wash down the river What we can agree on is that common sense should dictate some adjustments be made to a very good DAW, but a little long in the tooth on some very simple and funamental additions composers, and producers actually use, and have for a very long time.
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Lokeyfly wroteIf you provide it, I'll vote for it. I can tell you, I'm not looking for it. I just added a new feature request regarding this. I hope they don't delete it because there's another one there already but it's not quite the same. Someone asked for the mouse wheel to be active only when using it with a key, but even this while better, is still risky I think. For fun I photoshopped the setting I wish existed, check it out on the feature requests if you can! |
@OneFingerSnap, Suggestion, if you created a feature request, it would definately pay to supply the link. Even start a post, and include the link there so the subject is visible in the forum. It will get more traction from users who feel the same. Hence, a better chance at results.
OneFingerSnap wrote: I realize that not every user’s favorite feature can be added to a certain DAW. But in my previous post I mentioned a “feature” that easily can mess your work - I’m talking about the mouse wheel changing values on the mixer. Don’t you think that something in an application that makes it very likely to mess your work this can be considered a FUNDAMENTAL design flaw? Fundamental design flaw? With all respect, No, not at all. There's in part the responsibility of the user to gain and learn from the UI with any program. Consider, the walls aren't exactly falling down over users proclaiming the same issue. Far from it. Should there be an option to disable the scroll wheel in the lower mixer area? It seems fair, for some. While I haven't experienced problems with the scroll wheel ever, I'd be for it being optionally disabled for those who might benefit from not using scroll in certain areas. It's not impractical to find where it might be best to scroll in other nearby areas, as I pointed out those places earlier. And/or, use a controller to track/channel select. The Faderport, and a number of better controllers even select by touch sensitivity! Scrolling with the mouse pointer over areas where faders or panning exist is simply bad medicine, when the UI allows for scroll adjustment in such places. On the other hand, it's very useful when intended. My point about not having loop skip forward. Is it a design flaw? (No one said it was). Still, no, it isnt. No matter how fundamental I think it should be to have it in place, some developers or programming architects might not considered, or cared to implement it. I'm guessing they went to lunch and forgot it. I gave examples to support my position. Still, Pro Tools doesn't implement it. To jump forward, they use Shuffle which is for my use, way too destructive to simply explore a transition. Obviously Shuffle is to drop out whole sections, so it's purely a workaround, as we all find with any DAW. "Design flaw" doesn't really point to anything if it' doesn't hugely impact so many users. That is not the case here. For instance an Excel spreadsheet follows many spreadsheet conventions but is it a design flaw if a user starts to number cells, or use syntax, only to scream they didn't' ask create a formula? No, it comes back to user awareness to gain what the UI conventions of the program are, and eventually meet, exceed, or even complain about them. Point here is I believe your term of fundamental design flaw is in all respect, Inaccurate. Anyhow, get that post started, and you'll get some votes from some of us, including myself. This certainly isn't a weighty feature in any way (obviously) so that's a good thing! Cheers.
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Lokeyfly wrote@OneFingerSnap, Suggestion, if you created a feature request, it would definately pay to supply the link. Even start a post, and include the link there so the subject is visible in the forum. It will get more traction from users who feel the same. Hence, a better chance at results.OneFingerSnap wrote: I realize that not every user’s favorite feature can be added to a certain DAW. But in my previous post I mentioned a “feature” that easily can mess your work - I’m talking about the mouse wheel changing values on the mixer. Don’t you think that something in an application that makes it very likely to mess your work this can be considered a FUNDAMENTAL design flaw? Hi Lokeyfly, thanks for the input. I’m afraid we’ll have to agree on disagreeing here. I consider a feature that doesn’t exist just that - the absence of a desired feature. I’ll give you an example of my other pet peeve with S1 for which there’s also a feature request with 150 votes that is more than 5 years old: the fact that the loop recording area is not independent from the recording area. If I’m doing takes for an 8 bar guitar solo I want to be able to set a loop of, say, 10 bars but that only records from bar 2 to 9 in order to have a one bar rest between takes at the beginning and at the end, especially if it’s a technically demanding part. For me, it’s a glaring omission in a DAW which is primarily a recording tool. It’s no coincidence that many other DAW’s permit this. To me, this is a lacking feature just like the one you mentioned regarding the loop skip. But I don’t consider this design flaws, it’s merely in my opinion a poor choice of priorities in Presonus’ part. I would gladly trade the Show page for this. But that’s me - I don’t use it. I know they’re trying to get S1 closer to Abbleton Live and that’s understandable but I think these should not prevent them from implementing more basic and needed features. Regarding the mouse wheel thing, yes, I think it’s a fundamental design flaw in terms of expected UX/UI behavior. Can you point to me a handful of apps you know that use the mouse wheel in this way? Imagine if in Finder or Explorer the mouse wheel instead of scrolling would now suddenly create a folder? It’s a stupid example I know, but I just want to point out that It goes against expected behavior. Of course you could get used to it but you shouldn’t have to. What you said is that I have to be “careful” when using the wheel because of the small mixer part at the bottom and I don’t think I should have to think about this. Anyone can get used to bad design and learn to live with it but it’s still bad design in my opinion. If scrolling is done with the mouse wheel that’s how it should behave in any scrollable area of the screen. Everywhere in S1 we use the mouse for scrolling or zooming and suddenly, from a certain part of the screen downwards it starts changing some of the most fundamental elements in a mix - volumes, pans, etc. Didn’t you ever change a track’s color by mistake? At least this one pops in your eyes but a change of volume is not that obvious. So, my request is here: https://answers.presonus.com/70407/sett ... rs-console And here are a few posts I found from other users regarding this same issue. I don’t know if this means “critical mass” for this issue, but I’m certainly not alone in this: viewtopic.php?f=151&t=44008&p=257767&hilit=Mouse+wheel#p257767 viewtopic.php?f=151&t=40829&p=239948&hilit=Mouse+wheel#p239948 viewtopic.php?f=151&t=21658&p=118334&hilit=Mouse+wheel#p118334 viewtopic.php?f=151&t=35955&p=216233&hilit=Mouse+wheel#p216233 viewtopic.php?f=151&t=39125&p=229012&hilit=Mouse+wheel#p229012
Last edited by OneFingerSnap on Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I voted, hopefully it will help other users!
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kisnou wroteI voted, hopefully it will help other users! Thanks kisnou! |
Its easy and possible to set a record drop in range eg bar 9 to bar 17. Using the loop range. Put a marker at any point prior to the punch in range, eg at Bar 7. Then put the cursor there.
Set for Tape style monitoring and go into record, you will hear the lead up pre recorded audio until the drop in record point. If the loop is not engaged, the track will come out of record and continue playing. Come out of Tape Style monitoring to hear your guitar all the time. Jump instantly via a single key command to the marker for repeated takes. Punching in is quite versatile and well catered for now. You are just asking for a second visible loop range. Its possible to work with two ranges now.
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@OneFingerSnap, It's all good my friend. Opinions make the world go 'round.
I like the added loop feature, though re adjusting the current loop a little larger where I need, comping, or recording, and pressing on. No biggie. Still, I've always liked the idea of a secondary loop for the purpose of returning to where I might be auditioning edits, and I just felt two loops are better than one. Sort of like mints (Certs commercial). All the same, returning to edits is quick and easy anyway with a number of routine markers, or shortcuts. Users find alternatives as Jemusic points to yet another. Thoughts: If we scroll in Windows Explorer and we suddenly create a folder by scrolling, we're all in trouble. But again feedback would teach one then not to scroll in that same area or convention. As a child, you get burned by the candle flame once. If you do it again..... we can surmise the rest. Road shoulder bumps, etc, etc. Also silly examples If Presonus Studio One tries to mimic Ableton Live, we and Presonus are in even more trouble. As for scrolling, I just think it's a matter of knowing where the mouse cursor is when you scroll before you start spinning a scroll wheel. Why would you scroll otherwise without having a sense of position? It's that simple. Ironically (and I remember this) one of the initial positives I had before purchasing Studio One was both ARA Melodyne integration, and the 2nd was the ability to mouse over and not have to click on a field to change values. This was from Bar/beats/measures, to Transpose, to faders. I loved the thought of that. Mmv, but for me it was an actual plus in the final decision. Still, we respectfully have our positions. BTW Thx for the links. I will vote on scroll wheel option disable. Please vote for the skip ahead if you can use it. https://answers.presonus.com/9086/skip-section-using-loop Peace, and be safe! JCT
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Lokeyfly wrote@OneFingerSnap, It's all good my friend. Opinions make the world go 'round. Hi Lokeyfly, good discussion here! I’ve voted for the loop skip, it’s a useful thing I used to do in Logic sometimes. I hope I didn’t come out as being mad at Presonus with all my rants, I just want S1 to be as best as it can because despite everything I said I really like it. So now I’ll go back to work on my song, always being careful with the mouse wheel |
Jemusic wroteIts easy and possible to set a record drop in range eg bar 9 to bar 17. Using the loop range. Put a marker at any point prior to the punch in range, eg at Bar 7. Then put the cursor there. Hi Jemusic, thanks for your help. However, either I didn't get our suggestion or I don't see how this can keep a loop going without any intervention from me and only record a sub-section of that loop. For me, anything that distracts me from just focusing on playing the guitar is non optimal. Using your example, I just wish to have a continuous loop from say bar 8 to 18 but have S1 only record from bars 9 to 17, always creating takes as I go. I don't want to think about the computer at all, at this time I just wish to focus on playing. In this process it's also essential that, if my playing came in a bit earlier than bar 9, I can subsequently drag the audio event a bit to the left in order for it to not sound clipped. Same thing on the right side of the clip. |
However, in my opinion, the Q&A forum still needs a lot of improvement.
I honestly don't understand why they allow users to post help requests there, when they have a good support section + the expert chat for sphere users + this forum. I believe it just creates a mess and it also makes it harder for users to find useful features to vote for. The Feature Requests forum should be a single place where users go to just to vote for.. guess what? Feature Requests
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Yes my approach for a single punch-in application. It does not cater for those who want to loop and do say takes to layers. Playback needs to start earlier and end a little later too.
In this situation you need two loop ranges. The inner punch in one and then an outer 2 bars either side of that for playback start and end points. (Normal Loop) That would be ideal.
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