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I'm setting up several custom headphone mixes to be edited within S1 and I have a question about cable connections. I'll be routing the S1 headphone mixes to my Saffire Pro 40 outputs shown below. I am assuming that using a few Hosa YMP-434 cables should be fine to connect my headphone cables to. Seems like a no-brainer but I wanted to see if anyone else has used these before. I don't feel the need to purchase a whole new headphone amplifier. I have one but it only has one input source so everyone hears the same mix.


51Wh9INONiL._AC_SL1500_.jpg


27657-SAFFIREPRO40.jpg

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by SwitchBack on Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:48 am
Impossible to tell for two reasons:
1. Focusrite only specifies max output level (+16dBu) but no output impedance
2. You didn't specify the phones you intend to use

For phones it's power transfer that counts so you need (zero load) output level and output impedance of the line outputs, and input impedance and power rating of the phones to see if it's a good enough match. And then you need the sensitivity of the phones to work out how loud they (can) get.
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by Tacman7 on Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:56 pm
I don't think a line level output can drive phones.

Need a headphone amp after the outputs probably.

You have self powered headphones?

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by SwitchBack on Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:52 pm
Tacman7 wroteI don't think a line level output can drive phones.

They can, when the numbers add up. Never tried?
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by ryevick on Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:39 pm
These are the headphones I use

Audio-Technica ATH-M50x with Vocals (may change that)
Sony MDR-7506 with V-Drums
AKG Pro Audio K240 with piano/keys
Sennheiser HD 280 Pro with Sonor drum kit

I'm pretty frustrated right now. I'll explain more later but I'm trying to use my Sonor drum kit more instead of my V-Drums. They sound fine but I'm having some latency issues if I'm playing with Stems. The V-Drums have a seperate laptop system they record to that is right beside them so that's great but nothing beats playing live drums and now that I have them sounding really good I'm facing issues. More later.

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by Tacman7 on Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:37 pm
SwitchBack wroteThey can, when the numbers add up. Never tried?


I never did. I use line level to drive a guitar amp.

Like to hear how that works...


My headphone amp on my 1820m interface quit so I got a headphone amp and hooked it to an output pair.

About a year later had to redo computer and the headphones came back.

So it was a software problem from the start. Hard to tell sometimes.

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by ryevick on Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:57 pm
OK, I'll try and lay this out. I want to use S1 to create 4 headphone mixes. I have 10 outputs on my Pro 40 and of course 2 are for the mains, which I have running into my Mackie Big Knob (original version) for the monitors.

Capture.JPG

Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.jpg


I want to create a Vocal mix using outputs 3 & 4 which will go into my ISA One and then to my vocal "booth" with the Audio-Technica ATH-M50x headphones. I also have a Behringer MicroMON MA400 that I've never used which might help... somewhere.

focusrite-isa-one-digital-2372358.jpg

ISAOne-large.jpg

MA400-large.jpg-01.jpeg


I want to create a Drum mix using outputs 5 & 6 which I could run into the Behringer Ha400 headphone amp. As that only allows one input source, I could send that mix to two seperate drum rooms. My V-Drums room with the Sony MDR-7506 headphones and also my Sonor acoustic kit room with the Sennheiser HD 280 Pro headphones. I currently have two Monoprice 35ft Premium 3.5mm Stereo Male to 3.5mm Stereo Female 22AWG Extension Cables running from the Behringer Ha400 for those rooms.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=5586

55861.jpg

51C4keUmioL._AC_SX679_.jpg


I want to create a Piano/Keys mix using outputs 7 & 8 using my AKG Pro Audio K240 headphones.

Lastly I want to create a mix for my PM-30 Personal Monitor Amplifier using outputs 9 & 10.

pm_30_angle1_main.jpg


I know there are ways to do headphone mixes using Focusrite Mix Control but I haven't got into that yet. I'm focusing on creating them within S1.

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... ting-Mixes

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... he-Outputs

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... io-Outputs


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by Jemusic on Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:43 pm
In case you did not know.

The Monitor input on the Behringer MA400 can be mono or Stereo. You can use a TRS connector to get two channels into this unit. ie stereo. Switch on the front needs to set for stereo operation.

The Input to the HA400 is also stereo as well being a TRS connector. So you would need leads that have a TRS connector on one end and branch out to 2 x TS plugs on the other to go to your interface.

Its cool the ISA One allows a Cue mix to be brought in and then out to the headphone jack along with the mic signal for monitoring. Saves on headphone amps.

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by ryevick on Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:35 pm
I'm debating on just getting the ART HeadAmp6Pro 6-channel Headphone Amplifier.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -amplifier

ceab3fce-0279-4409-a83b-e48a5e600186.jpg


:|
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by Jemusic on Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:21 pm
I invested in a decent headphone rack system and never looked back. Even the Behringer 4 channel and 8 channel units are excellent. Headphone amps will drive the phones to much higher levels. They overcome different headphone impedances much better. The outputs from interfaces are not meant to drive into low impedances such as 32 ohms etc..

I see you can feed in alternate stereo mixes to each of the headphone amps from the front panel.

There is so much you can do with them. Mute channels, balance, mono etc. All useful.

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by ryevick on Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:38 pm
Jemusic wroteMake sure you can feed in the alternate stereo pairs into it for all the alternate mixes.


What do you mean? If I get it I was just planning on using Hosa STP-201 1/4" TRS to Dual 1/4" TS Insert Cables out of the Pro 40 outputs and to the inputs of the ART HeadAmp6Pro .

STP201-large.jpg.auto-01.jpeg

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by Jemusic on Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:41 pm
I see you can feed alternate mixes into the ART unit. From the front panel via the AUX inputs. If you want 4 different mixes feeding 4 sets of phones, those leads are perfect but you will need 4 of them.

The main inputs (on the rear) will feed all the headphone amps at once if you are happy to provide the same mix to 6 people. The direct input on the front panel overrides the stereo input at the back to give all the headphone amps an instant new mix.

When you plug into the Aux inputs on the front panel the balance control changes its function and allows you to blend the rear main input or the aux input. A cool feature.

Its also good the headphone outputs are on the rear panel as well un-cluttering the front area.

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by SwitchBack on Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:35 am
Jemusic wrote... The outputs from interfaces are not meant to drive into low impedances such as 32 ohms etc..

An output is an output. When levels are sufficient and impedances are compatible it's a go. From experience I know e.g. that Series III aux outputs can drive 7506 phones without problems. That's 100 Ohms (balanced) outputs into 62 Ohms phones.

It is easy to come up with examples where it's not a match but then it is also easy to come up with examples of where to spend money where it's not necessary ;)
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by Jemusic on Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:47 am
From my experience sometimes you need decent levels in certain headphone types under certain conditions such as listening to dense mixes and click tracks etc.. while playing acoustic drums etc..and rack mounted headphone amps simply just do it way better. That is what they are designed to do. Even the headphone outputs from many interfaces are way underpowered. A decent headphone amplifier system is way superior to any interface attempting to drive them direct from their outputs. You might be lucky in some circumstances but in far more situations the headphone amplifier will win hands down.

Also audio interface outputs feeding phones have no real direct control over headphone volume or balance etc. The best place to control headphone volume is from the headphone amp itself by the wearer themselves as well. Not the buss or the cue output levels in your DAW. Headphones vary in impedance and sensitivity so if all the interface outputs are sending the same level there will many variations in headphone volumes etc..The reason why headphone amps offer individual volume and balance control over every headphone output. All independent of the ref levels you are using inside your DAW.

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by ryevick on Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:46 am
Jemusic wroteI see you can feed in alternate stereo mixes to each of the headphone amps from the front panel.

There is so much you can do with them. Mute channels, balance, mono etc. All useful.


Hmmm... Apparently there are 2 different versions and I posted the images of the front of one and the back from another.

This is the one I'm looking at and the one that seems to be the popular "pro" version. Less clutter on the front. $20 more.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -amplifier

headphone-amps-headamp6pro-front-01.jpeg

headphone-amps-headamp6pro-rear-01.jpeg



This is the other version.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... dphone-amp

ART-HeadAmp6-1-01.jpeg

S1 4.6 Pro / Win 10 Pro 64 / ASUS Z97-A / Intel i5-4670K 3.4 GHz / G.SKILL 32GB DDR3 / ASUS NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti / Syba Firewire PCI-e / Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, OctoPre MkII Dynamic, ISA One Analog, ISA One Digital / Presonus TubePre & FaderPort / JBL LSR305 & Roland MA-15D Monitors, JBL 2310SP Subwoofer / Mackie Big Knob / ART HeadAmp6Pro / Behringer Ha400 / Various Headphones / AOC 29" 21:9 Ultrawide / CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD

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by ryevick on Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:08 am
Jemusic wroteI see you can feed in alternate stereo mixes to each of the headphone amps from the front panel.

There is so much you can do with them. Mute channels, balance, mono etc. All useful.


I'm not sure if I would have the outputs for alternate stereo mixes. It looks like I'll use all of mine unless I went mono.

When you say you can "Mute channels, balance, mono etc. All useful" I'm a little confused what you mean because you could do that with any S1 mixes.

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by Jemusic on Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:10 am
Ok. The Pro version allows you to feed in the AUX inputs from the rear panel hence less clutter out front. Also the tone controls for each headphone output will come in handy. I have got the Behringer equivalent with the Bass and Treble controls and I have found its nice to fine tune those things with the headphones that are connected. Some phones are a little bright, (or dull) some a little boomy. (or thin) You can quickly correct for all that with the tone controls.

The other model you were showing has the Aux inputs on the front panel (more clutter as you will have leads plugged in there) but more headphone outs on the rear panel though. But no tone controls but you can drive up to 18 sets of phones. Do you really need that many?

You have got 10 outs on your interface so apart from the speakers you have still got 4 alternate stereo mixes you could create.

Note: In all my years I have never needed more than two headphone mixes and in fact I have survived with just one headphone mix for nearly every project I have done. If its done well enough you can get by with just one headphone mix for everybody in the room. Many famous engineers have said the same. Setting up multiple headphone mixes takes time and when you are under pressure in a studio to get stuff down you don't have that often.

Mono is handy from the front panel of the headphone amp. Not your DAW. A singer might just want to put everything in mono and then take one headphone off. Its fast and easy to do from the headphone amp. Those mono switches and mute options on both models allow the singer say to silence the headphone they have taken off (to avoid spill) and have the other in mono with both channels summed.

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by ryevick on Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:14 pm
Well I just ordered it. Should arrive Monday or Tuesday.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... -amplifier

I also finally setup my Saffire MixControl.
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by ryevick on Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:17 pm
Love it!

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20210727_151117.jpg
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by Jemusic on Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:03 pm
You will appreciate how good your headphones can sound great driven from a decent headphone amp distribution device.

I should say too that Presonus also make a great headphone amp here. I did not know this until recently. I am sure it is excellent at doing this job.

https://www.presonus.com/products/HP60

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