roland1 wroteI know it's not a planetary extinction level issue, but sometimes I wonder where all of this is going, musically, when loops are more popular than music lessons, etc.

I understand if you don't know how to play an instrument that you might want to experiment with sounds, but is that perhaps also just a way of avoiding the effort of learning how to play?

It's more just a philosophical/quality of life issue that bounces around in my head. I'm somewhat lucky because I play a few instruments at a competent level, so I guess I'm coming from that direction. So it always makes me curious why someone can't sit there for a while and just noodle around on their keyboard or guitar until they find the right sound that they're looking for.

But I guess it's like fast food...it's just easier to have apps that experiment for you. But I'm not sure if the emotional reward is the same. When I get the right sound, I truly feel it. That's part of the payoff of writing, even if your songs are never heard.

I like fast food.

You might find this interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whzjaGrWE24

This video is on the 2.4 update mainly.

SMcNamara wrote

roland1 wroteFYI, none of your favorite albums was written using Scaler 2.
Just sayin'...

Many, if not most of them, weren't written using a DAW either.

Among its many traits, Scaler 2 is a great tool for expanding your chord progression palette (especially the 5 modulation tools).

DAWs just record what you write — they don't suggest chord changes. Not really an accurate comparison.

Because my brain is cued for advertising, I watched the first 30 seconds of that ad for Scalar and the thing that was being sold was convenience — fast, easy and no investment in the "mind numbing" process of writing (which obviously turned Paul McCartney into a vegetable.

But yeah, those first 30 seconds made my point better than I could: what do you want?

Fast food music.

roland1 wroteBecause my brain is cued for advertising, I watched the first 30 seconds of that ad for Scalar and the thing that was being sold was convenience — fast, easy and no investment in the "mind numbing" process of writing (which obviously turned Paul McCartney into a vegetable.

But yeah, those first 30 seconds made my point better than I could: what do you want?

Fast food music.

I'm old. But so are you.

Roland is on and island!

I also use Chord Jam, Riffer and Melody Sauce as well. All based on various forms of detection and AI. I can comfortably compose music for various mediums (TV, Film, theatre etc) without any of these but I find when I involve them, things go further and they can take you in directions that you may not venture into. Its no different to getting ideas while you compose from your mind and trying them out and thinking, no that does not work. These devices are also making suggestions to you as well. In many cases things you may have not thought of trying in fact.

The human element is still very involved in terms of deciding whether a suggestion is good or not or whether to follow it through and flesh it out further. One idea might be, meh, not really. But then another might effect me emotionally and I feel the effect in my body so then I go with it. Same thing as pulling out a chord from your own mind and thinking, wow, that is perfect.

Its also a bit like when you play a musical (pitched) sound from say ATOM or ATOM SQ, very different things come out. Is that good or bad? I say its actually interesting and a good thing. You can do things using ATOM you would never do with a conventional keyboard.

Actually what we compose is really based on what we hear or have heard. I might be standing in the street and hear some musical squeaks (a tram etc) or a rhythm due to a construction site and I might get a musical idea as a result. Listening to Scaler etc is actually no different. Its very healthy and rather exciting in fact.

It's just WAY too much fun. It should be criminal.

I've become a beat junkie, XO and Scaler 2 now rule my world

Don't blame me if God sends you back down in your next life and forces you to take accordian lessons. Don't say I didn't warn you.

P.S. I do actually live on a type of inland island; far from the big brown stink cloud that hangs over Toronto from all the cars.

Since we're having fun with the topic, and points already made, here's an added thought.

As you know, if there's a convenience slant on most anything, consumers will flock to it.

Ab rollers were a craze because out of shape people could actually lie on their backs while they exorcise. That coupled with the before/after 4 weeks photoshop squeeze photo. Lol.

Musically, they'll probably come a day when one imagines they write a song, or a concerto in D minor, and poof, done. They can imagine the pseudo drum part swells up 3 dB after the 2nd verse, and poof, done. "I'd like a dash of that old fashioned Beatles mixed with Ziggy Poop Dust" (new pop artist). Either the song will have not a smidgen of fault, or everyone will be too stupid and shallow to notice. Until then, we're somewhat in between, or blessed that we have such capable tools as Scaler2 and the like that can shape the difference into what we override and envision. Some people will do that better than the other guy. That in an age where we all get a trophy because everyone is a winner.
So enjoy it while you can.

Okay, how about I use Hayley Williams and Paramore as an example: incredibly talented songwriters and performers — I know they're heavily into tech, but the songwriting doesn't lie: they've got what it takes, naturally. However, they're already "classic pop" being in their 30's now.

Damn it, you're right, I'm getting old. Why don't I feel it?

Maybe I should also be reaching for something easier, too. But nope, stubborn me, I still play my music the old fashioned way.

IanM5 wrote

roland1 wrote...— fast, easy and no investment in the "mind numbing" process of writing (which obviously turned Paul McCartney into a vegetable.

But yeah, those first 30 seconds made my point better than I could: what do you want?

Fast food music.

I'm old. But so are you.

I think the whole point of making music so accessible with "song writing aids" is that it creates, from a marketing standpoint, less resistance from the average non-musician to buying the product if it can already meet their biggest objection: "But, I don't know how to play anything!"

I know that's not everyone's case here, but I'm sure that it lubricates the minds of non-musicians just enough to say, "Okay, I'll sign up for Sphere and see if I can do this music making thing..."

And that's how we got the song "Friday." (I'm kidding. That was from a traumatic brain injury.)

But music making is fun, and I suppose it doesn't matter what you do. I'm just saying that the creative part — where you learn to express yourself for yourself — is a huge emotional payoff.

That said about my approval of a chord tool, I'll always give more credence to someone who works out an instrumental part from practice and development. There's a very challenging work ethic applied to knowing ones instrument(s). Not that creating alone with a chorder app isn't challenging or beneficial at times. Both ways can lead to success. Perhaps even some dissonance can be arrived with both for a personal touch. One just has to be on the creative mode to that path. I simply gravitate a little more to the 95% sweat theory, right or wrong. Just me.

For the new comer, sure a musical aid as a chord, bass, drum program, and such will be a big help. Weather the song passes the discerning listener is how much one cares to put into it. Perhaps the creator doesn't care as much as they just want to explore their passion. Not everyone is a Rembrandt or tries to be. Again though, as a musician, I just give a little more credence to the one who gets their smock dirty, and paint on their elbows.

App, or no app, it can involve a lot of work for those who wish to put the time in. Chord tools can be cool.

my 2 cents... being a musician (not really but others say i am lol) i have put in tons and tons of practice through my life but have a lot of fun playing around with these aids and i wish i had them ages ago. it is SO easy to have the 'happy little accident' with them and i rarely had happy little accidents in the midst of practice because i strove to get parts right hence i learned through repetition. the same with performance. i played in cover bands and wanted perfection if not but to honor the artists i mimicked so there was not a lot of room for trial and error or fooling around except maybe farting around at practice with the whole band. these aids can easily give you the "WOW!" moment so i don't knock them.

the reason i don't really consider myself a real 'musician' is because i play by ear and have never devoted myself to any instrument and i have played a lot of instruments over the years. i quit 'learning' music after high school. i used to sight read music off the cuff singing and playing trombone but i never put that much effort into learning theory or structure because i didn't have to... i played by ear. i learned to read music when i was very young playing the piano and it paid off through school in choir and band. after school i just stopped the technical side of music. i continued to play but just guitar which i picked up when i was 10 yrs old. it was my 'fun' time after all the other work (musically) and i never combined the two so now i know nothing really about the instrument i loved to play lol

so i like these aids... to make things to play along with and for the 'happy little accidents' that come with them. but this is just MY story and i am sticking to it lol

cheers

The VST3 version did soft crash S1 yesterday. It wasn't anything serious but still. I seem to have more problems with VST3.

reggie1979beatz wroteThe only thing missing is in Studio One. Logic can use this as a midi fx! That would be ace.

Agreed.