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Here's another thread where the same condition was found. Same Mac user, frank.crow who started that thread. https://forums.presonus.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=35422&p=210940&hilit=Rename+folder#p210940
Nothing new yet found. Perhaps some additional Mac users can verify. I can only troubleshoot as I work, so while not in that phase at the moment, I'll note on new songs to test when audio files or its folder derail the rename feature.

Updated, fixed the link.
Last edited by Lokeyfly on Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by SwitchBack on Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:15 am
On a Mac at least there's a fundamental difference between the Recent Files list and the Songs list:
- Recent Files is a list of shortcuts to .song files in the locations they were saved last (which can be in any directory on any drive in the system).
- Songs shows all .song files in the subdirectories of the 'Songs' folder in the User Data Location (as set in Setup - Locations).

So 'Recent Files' can be anywhere, where 'Songs' monitors one particular directory and its subdirectories.

To know where's what you can hover the mouse over the list entries. As long as you let S1 decide the path to store everything pertaining to a new song in, it will create a subdirectory (named after the initial song name you chose) in the 'Songs' directory in the User Data Location. That will make the song show up in both lists. If you decide to save the song somewhere else then the Recent Files list will remember that, but the song won't show in the Songs list.
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by frank.crow on Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:01 am
SwitchBack wroteOn a Mac at least there's a fundamental difference between the Recent Files list and the Songs list:
- Recent Files is a list of shortcuts to .song files in the locations they were saved last (which can be in any directory on any drive in the system).
- Songs shows all .song files in the subdirectories of the 'Songs' folder in the User Data Location (as set in Setup - Locations).

So 'Recent Files' can be anywhere, where 'Songs' monitors one particular directory and its subdirectories.

To know where's what you can hover the mouse over the list entries. As long as you let S1 decide the path to store everything pertaining to a new song in, it will create a subdirectory (named after the initial song name you chose) in the 'Songs' directory in the User Data Location. That will make the song show up in both lists. If you decide to save the song somewhere else then the Recent Files list will remember that, but the song won't show in the Songs list.


I used all of the default settings and never had an issue until a regular update occurred (also routine) and then the 1:1 relationship was broken. To this day I’m still using default settings and paths chosen by Studio One.

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by SwitchBack on Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:07 am
OK, so all your song folders are in a folder named 'Songs'? Then maybe during the update something changed the User Data Location. When you change that back to the directory that contains the 'Songs' subdirectory then that should repopulate the Songs list.
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by Lokeyfly on Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:15 am
SwitchBack wroteOn a Mac at least there's a fundamental difference between the Recent Files list and the Songs list:
- Recent Files is a list of shortcuts to .song files in the locations they were saved last (which can be in any directory on any drive in the system).
- Songs shows all .song files in the subdirectories of the 'Songs' folder in the User Data Location (as set in Setup - Locations).

So 'Recent Files' can be anywhere, where 'Songs' monitors one particular directory and its subdirectories.

To know where's what you can hover the mouse over the list entries. As long as you let S1 decide the path to store everything pertaining to a new song in, it will create a subdirectory (named after the initial song name you chose) in the 'Songs' directory in the User Data Location. That will make the song show up in both lists. If you decide to save the song somewhere else then the Recent Files list will remember that, but the song won't show in the Songs list.


I'm not sure Macos recent files has to do with the renaming within the rename feature of Studio One itself, and the rename failure issue is showing up on both platforms, so I'm missing the context of recent file. That said, I'm long away from MacOs and am more than probably missing your point. Recent file folders exist in Win OS, and can be called on as well, but that's in the OS. To how that impacts the discussion, please explain. I'm all ears. :)

As to relocating, this is as stated earlier, right out of the Studio One\Songs\song name folder\songname.song

The intent is to address the issue right in the default Songs folder, and song folder within. We know Studio One creates a song subdirectory, actually anywhere a new song folder is made.

Switchback wrote: If you decide to save the song somewhere else then the Recent Files list will remember that, but the song won't show in the Songs list.

Hoping we're keeping to the rename (or lack thereof) and not what subdirectories S1 creates.
Specific point please?

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:19 am
SwitchBack wroteOK, so all your song folders are in a folder named 'Songs'? Then maybe during the update something changed the User Data Location. When you change that back to the directory that contains the 'Songs' subdirectory then that should repopulate the Songs list.

Ok, following up, as I missed this. Yes, SwitchBack, unfortunately, a new page in the thread had started. You probably missed it, but I had attempted to minimize drift as to creating new folders, elsewhere, etc. in the discussion or testing.

This is and has always occurred in the default"Songs\songfolder\xxxx.song" paths.

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:19 pm
There's some different paths from the original poster where he/she couldn't save while the song was open, and was getting a can't save, file open message, but that (seems anyway) to have been user error. The discussion progressed to song rename (works) however, parent song folder (suddenly fails), so I may ask a Mod if they can prune the discussion as fixed, up to the original OP's point. Let's see how the thread progresses.

In the mean time if you are finding the song rename feature to become unreliable, in that the file rename works as intended, but the parent song folder eventually does not (seemingly due to adding and saving an audio track within that same song), then please vote. Thank you.
https://answers.presonus.com/4981/make-that-renaming-song-always-renames-folder-unpredictable

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by robertgray3 on Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:48 pm
Just a note- if it’s happening to some people in specific situations, it sounds like a bug; Presonus Answers is not the most productive place to get those fixed.

It’s got to be something other than recording or a “matter of time”. I record plenty of audio and I just tested loading my oldest and newest songs and renaming the Song in S1 - folder renamed fine. Maybe int/ext drives or a Windows file system or permissions thing?

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:57 pm
robertgray3 wroteJust a note- if it’s happening to some people in specific situations, it sounds like a bug; Presonus Answers is not the most productive place to get those fixed.

It’s got to be something other than recording or a “matter of time”. I record plenty of audio and I just tested loading my oldest and newest songs and renaming the Song in S1 - folder renamed fine. Maybe int/ext drives or a Windows file system or permissions thing?


Good point, and thanks for checking. So this is a dangler.

I'll get repeated saves in a session, and at that time I'm purposely checking the folder updating along with fishing for a good song name. :) Then, after a few incidents, folder rename just stops. Surprising this has such a long and foggy history behind it. The FR is from 2016. It seems to be in that crevice where a user doesn't notice, or when necessity dictates, simply saves to a new folder. Or, as you have added, the inconsistancy simply doesn't occur on your Mac.

Let's hear from more who also give a hoot, and quite honestly, I'm not expecting the door to cave in from the questions section. Nope, not a matter of time issue either. It's likely some file management routine that they haven't addressed. Inconsistencies are never very good.

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by kisnou on Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:57 am
To me, the folder does not rename and I am also in touch with the assistance to talk about this problem.
I've sent them a video of the issue as well, so I will update this thread when I have any news

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by SwitchBack on Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:55 am
I think it’s a protective measure when S1 stops updating folder names automatically with the song name.

For all files used in a song the absolute path to those files is stored in the .song file. When you rename the .song file (from S1’s browser or from your OS browser) the next time you want to open the song in S1 it will go by the new name. But changing the .song file name does not necessarily change the path to the files used in the song, because the directory those files are in may not have changed. And rightfully so because there may be other .song files using files from that same directory.

From S1’s browser you can still change folder names, no problem. As far as I can see that doesn’t update the path in the .song file yet. The song simply continues using the files it loaded into memory when the song was opened. The folder names in the .song file are only updated when you save the song.

And that’s where things can go wrong when ‘automatic directory naming’ is always on, because other .song files may be using files from the old location too. And none of those .song files get updated with the new directory name. Songs will automatically search for missing files in the directory the .song file is in, and ask to save the song on exit to update the paths. But files in other locations won’t be found.

The ‘automatic directory naming’ is only active when you create a new song in a new directory. As long as S1 can be sure that the directories are new and no other songs make use of them it can change the directory name when the song name is changed. See this as the exception rather than the rule.

This behavior is quite similar to applications like InDesign. Moving files and renaming directories quickly leads to ‘locate missing file’ requests. Not a big deal, especially because InDesign automatically tries to find other missing files in the same directory you tell it look for the first one. “Found x more missing files in that directory. Do you want to update the path to all?”. Pretty quick to update file references that way :)
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by mycbeats on Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:23 am
robertgray3 wroteIs this maybe a Windows vs Mac thing? Either that or you all are doing something I’m not. I just renamed a handful of songs where audio was recorded and it renamed the folder too. These are not new songs either.


I think its a windows vs mac thing. Being on both, I get it on windows all the time but never on mac.
It usually starts happening after you've worked on the song for a bit. Like I mentioned before, I believe it has to do with the cache, it mostly happens when tracks are armed. Closing and reopening before renaming solves it.

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by klypeman on Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:02 am
A little side note, to make it easier to find recorded tracks when not on SO I find it slick to use the naming like this: diskname/2021/june/songname of the folders and then save as to differentiate.
If I don’t have a name yet when starting I just name it 1.

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:58 am
mycbeats wrote
robertgray3 wroteIs this maybe a Windows vs Mac thing? Either that or you all are doing something I’m not. I just renamed a handful of songs where audio was recorded and it renamed the folder too. These are not new songs either.


I think its a windows vs mac thing. Being on both, I get it on windows all the time but never on mac.
It usually starts happening after you've worked on the song for a bit. Like I mentioned before, I believe it has to do with the cache, it mostly happens when tracks are armed. Closing and reopening before renaming solves it.

Thx. Will keep an eye on that. However, as I recall, I'd save the existing song in work. Then immediately follow with Rename. Only as pointed out by several, that rename becomes a coin toss based on if some audio files were created, and saved. Adding audio is at least suspect, but not the only cause. Still, your point makes sense. It's just not clear when rename doesn't include the song folder name.

Consider, there are some Mac users experiencing the song folder not being updated either (at some point). I can't define those details because I don't know them fully. It's also likely some users aren't seeing the issue at all, as also stated by some on a Mac.
The lack of folder rename issue continues until further uprooted. So it's fairly important to not just say, well, I tried it and it works or doesn't work. That and a dollar will buy any of us a cup of coffee. We simply don't know all the details so to imply it's platform related hasn't been established.
Hence, why we need Presonus to address the issue that has been occuring for years now. Proof is in the questions section dating 2016 or even older.

Just making text bold for visibility. Not shouting folks. :D
We as users make observations and make music. For us, its not easy to trace root cause. Just share fragmented notes which we genuinely try to do. Someone from Presonus needs to take the bull by the horns and observe that some inconsistency exists with folder rename.

Trouble shooting should include additional audio tracks made (thereby creating a new audio folder, file association, cache, armed tracks, song status (is mixer, or panel open?/closed?, etc) potentially cause the song folder to eventually not rename. The song filename always renames just fine.

*Workaround is to save to new folder and rename that way, which will solve folder and song rename at once. However, that cleans house as to unused audio clips.
The intent here is to rename within the existing song folder and having that folder name match the song renamed. Early in tue song evolution, this seems to work fine, but eventually may not.
Thx.

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