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Please PreSonus. Give us automation capabilities with projects. How can I do EQ pushes or automate compression in a master with no automation lanes?

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by robertgray3 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:08 pm
Yes, the two things keeping me (and the two mastering engineers I know who use Studio One) from using the Project Page for mastering is:

a) lack of automation

b) lack of Transform - you can Bounce hardware moves through Pipeline but if you make adjustments to other items after bouncing you have to undo everything sequentially to get to a pre-Bounced state. Transforming is necessary.

You can vote for it here.

https://answers.presonus.com/35563/fade ... 563#q35563

and here:

https://answers.presonus.com/30562/free ... oject-mode

I think a) will get done eventually due to the vote count but I'm not holding my breath for b).

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by johnboyd4 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:57 pm
It makes zero sense to not be able to automate while mastering.

robertgray3 wroteYes, the two things keeping me (and the two mastering engineers I know who use Studio One) from using the Project Page for mastering is:

a) lack of automation

b) lack of Transform - you can Bounce hardware moves through Pipeline but if you make adjustments to other items after bouncing you have to undo everything sequentially to get to a pre-Bounced state. Transforming is necessary.

You can vote for it here.

https://answers.presonus.com/35563/fade ... 563#q35563

and here:

https://answers.presonus.com/30562/free ... oject-mode

I think a) will get done eventually due to the vote count but I'm not holding my breath for b).

Mac Studio M1 Ultra running Ventura
RME MADIFACE PRO > FERROFISH A32 PRO AD/DA. FOCAL TWIN 6be MONITORS, GRACE M905 CONTROLLER, MANLEY, IGS, UA Audio, PULTEC, MAAG, WES AUDIO, NEVE, HERITAGE AUDIO, BETTERMAKER, Yada yada
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by robertgray3 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:13 pm
johnboyd4 wroteIt makes zero sense to not be able to automate while mastering.


No, it doesn't, but the Project Page isn't the most popular feature. I think part of it is the fact that any features it lacks can be overcome by simply working in the Song Page.

Hopefully they add it at some point.

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by graytermedia on Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:13 am
Another reason I've been opening S1 less and less these days and sticking with Pro Tools - my professional dance partner for years. I really do love the workflow aspects of S1, but the feature set, or lack there of, keeps my Avid subscription active. There are issues there too, but it's the devil I know when my clients and my paycheck depend on it.

tg

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by gregghart on Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:21 am
I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't do that stuff in your main mix, rather than the mastering?

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by webhamster on Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:22 pm
Yes, automation in projects would be very helpful!

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by robertgray3 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:36 pm
gregghart wroteI guess I don't understand why you wouldn't do that stuff in your main mix, rather than the mastering?


Let’s say the first verse has no drums. The second verse through the outro does. You notice the side channel could use a little EQ, after the first few inserts, and only once the drums are in and not before that point.

Or adjusting the input gain of the limiter in a specific part of the song.

There is no way to do that in the Project Page and it is not an uncommon practice.

I know a few mastering engineers who use Studio One and they don’t use the Project Page- this is one of the reasons.

Also keep in mind they are generally receiving a two track Mixdown from another mixer.

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by GMHague on Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:07 pm
robertgray3 wrote
gregghart wroteI guess I don't understand why you wouldn't do that stuff in your main mix, rather than the mastering?


Let’s say the first verse has no drums. The second verse through the outro does. You notice the side channel could use a little EQ, after the first few inserts, and only once the drums are in and not before that point.

Or adjusting the input gain of the limiter in a specific part of the song.

There is no way to do that in the Project Page and it is not an uncommon practice.

I know a few mastering engineers who use Studio One and they don’t use the Project Page- this is one of the reasons.

Also keep in mind they are generally receiving a two track Mixdown from another mixer.


I'm curious, not arguing ... couldn't you do the above by automating plugins inserted over the Main Outs in the Song page?
I'll cite Steven Wilson, who tries to avoid using mastering altogether because he says (mind you, he's often misquoted) that you should be achieving the "sound" you're looking for in the mixdown process, and that anything needed in a mastering process perhaps only highlights something the mixdown is lacking.
Having said that (me, I mean) I think the Project page is great for creating a consistency across all the tracks of an album, plus without doubt there are always aspects of a mix that aren't apparent until you get the opportunity to compare songs on the one Project Page. A tweak here and there is almost unavoidable. And the facility to publish your songs across a variety of formats from one Page too is brilliant. And having said all THAT I reckon automation in the Project Page wouldn't hurt...

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by Jemusic on Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:17 pm
Mixing and mastering are two different things and they need to be done at two different times. You cannot achieve in mixing what you can in mastering. I don't agree with Steve Wilson at all. It is not a good idea to add mastering plugins either to a mix at the time of the mix. If you are mastering your own mixes I prefer to leave time between the two processes. I usually create fully unmastered or premastered mixdowns first then master them a week later. In that week too its great to listen to your mix in many environments and you will pick up all sorts of little niggly things that are easily corrected in the mix.

I do a lot of professional mastering and get well paid for it too. I do it all in the song page. Its a good place currently to do it. You can setup a bunch of tracks and have each tune of an album on each track (at the right time line position as well) with its own mastering plugins. Plugin chains can be saved and applied to other tracks easily and then tweaked for each track. Its possible to jump around the tracks with markers and compare them all very easily for tone and level. Song page allows for all the features to be applied for each track. Automation etc.

I just export each track separately and then make the audio CD in Nero etc.. Here in Australia the CD duplicators require a master audio CD. You should also make this master audio CD on a master grade blank (around $5 each, not a 30 cent blank!!!, there is a very big difference) at a slow speed too. Or of course you can export each track directly and ready for a music streaming site etc..

You can master very well now in Studio One.

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by robertgray3 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:34 pm
Jemusic wroteI do a lot of professional mastering and get well paid for it too. I do it all in the song page.

...

You can master very well now in Studio One.


Yeah. A lot of crucial mastering features are only in the Song page.

GMHague wrotecouldn't you do the above by automating plugins inserted over the Main Outs in the Song page?


True, it is the only place you can do that. I am currently using the Song page. So is Jemusic. So is my mastering engineer. So are their peers who use Studio One.

The sole stated purpose of the Project Page is mastering and I love the idea of it, especially with the mix updates, the insert chain setup, and the metering setup. It's great in theory and I use it as much as I can. However, if they want the Project page to be truly optimized for mastering, there are some missing features and it appears that you both see the benefit as well.

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by garybowling on Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:15 am
Jemusic wroteMixing and mastering are two different things and they need to be done at two different times. You cannot achieve in mixing what you can in mastering. I don't agree with Steve Wilson at all. It is not a good idea to add mastering plugins either to a mix at the time of the mix. If you are mastering your own mixes I prefer to leave time between the two processes. I usually create fully unmastered or premastered mixdowns first then master them a week later. In that week too its great to listen to your mix in many environments and you will pick up all sorts of little niggly things that are easily corrected in the mix.

I do a lot of professional mastering and get well paid for it too. I do it all in the song page. Its a good place currently to do it. You can setup a bunch of tracks and have each tune of an album on each track (at the right time line position as well) with its own mastering plugins. Plugin chains can be saved and applied to other tracks easily and then tweaked for each track. Its possible to jump around the tracks with markers and compare them all very easily for tone and level. Song page allows for all the features to be applied for each track. Automation etc.

I just export each track separately and then make the audio CD in Nero etc.. Here in Australia the CD duplicators require a master audio CD. You should also make this master audio CD on a master grade blank (around $5 each, not a 30 cent blank!!!, there is a very big difference) at a slow speed too. Or of course you can export each track directly and ready for a music streaming site etc..

You can master very well now in Studio One.



All very true, but a little ironic. You're basically pointing out that you DON'T use S1's project page for mastering and instead use S1's song page for mastering for the exact reasons this thread was about.

i.e., you can't do what you need to do in the project page!

Seems if they are going to promote the project page for mastering, then it needs fixing so you can actually do what you need to do to master :)

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by gregghart on Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:51 am
I get what you are guys are looking for now. Makes sense, however, a thread isn't the place to make this kind of request. Presonus rarely looks through these forums. However, you can always make a feature request. https://answers.presonus.com/

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