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It's way too early to tell but right now I am NOT feeling it :lol:

I want something that lays waste to what I have or I'll stay put.

Bye......:roll:
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by Bub on Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:51 am
Tacman7 wroteMy instinct is that the i5 is quicker because it's 3 generations later.
Yes that is part of it. The cores get faster and faster each generation so it's hard to compare.

Tacman7 wroteI7 use of hyperthreading was always an advantage, just marketing fueling the anti hyperthreading hub bub?
It caused a lot of problems for DAW software developers. Getting the CPU load stabilized across the cores and threads took years. I'm still not sure they have it figured out. That was the main reason I remember for disabling HT. Disabling HT solved a lot of dropout/pop/click problems that simply raising buffers couldn't fix.

I honestly can't see hardly any difference between my old i5-650 and this i7-6700k with the exception of load time. And we're only talking a few seconds not minutes difference. At first it seemed significantly faster but upon closer look it really wasn't when I looked at the loading log closely in S1. Then Melodyne did some kind of update to their authorization system and now S1 takes longer to load now because of it than it did on my old i5-650 so there is literally absolutely no difference at all now. Worse in fact. LOL!

Both my i5 and i7 had the same latency. That didn't change except when I went from USB 1 to Firewire then to USB 2. Firewire was the best. Never had a problem with 30 ~ 40 track projects with 5 or more synth VST's and a drum VST. I always like to bounce/freeze my synth tracks. Especially drum VST's and then I process each drum separately. But even unbounced/unfrozen I didn't have a problem. I just had to raise my buffers a little when mixing.

I'm certain there are scenario's where you are using a lot of hardware and many VST's and samples to where you would need a lot of RAM and a massive CPU. One example is iZotope's Ozone. They are simple VST's with clean GUI's yet they take forever to load. I don't know if it's the VST itself or if it's phoning home every time you use it and that slows their load time down but it's dreadful. I don't have any other VST of any kind that takes as long as iZotope's stuff does to load when I add one of their VST's to a song.

Tacman7 wroteI read the passmark benchmarks when shopping a processor. How I wound up with Ryzen...
Every time I have ever talked myself in to an AMD CPU and/or GPU I completely regretted it. There was always some thread, or CPU function, or cache memory they cut back on to save money that greatly effected what I was running. But times are changing. I don't think it's like that anymore and I have been looking at them. I'm trying to build a decent gaming rig and I've been looking at Ryzen but it's a bad time to buy video cards.

Shane

Intel i7 6700k || 16GB RAM || 2 x 250GB SSD's || Win 10 Pro || Presonus Studio One Pro 5.5 || Studio 1810c || Yamaha HS-80M's || ART Pro VLA II Compressor || ART Pro MPA II Reference Series Mic Pre || Blue Bluebird Mic || The usual misc. guitars.
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by reggie1979beatz on Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:35 am
Bub wroteit's a bad time to buy video cards.


EEEEK, you are right!

This is looking less and less attractive.

Bye......:roll:
User avatar
by garybowling on Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:51 am
I'm also interested in building a new DAW. I'm very interested in what others find with the Ryzen 5900x or 5950x and what motherboards are best for these processors.

Like others, I've had mixed results in the past with AMD. But in the past few years it seems they have really upped their game with these processors benchmarking higher than comparably priced intel CPUs.

Of course that's all general benchmarking and most of the info you can get is from gaming tests. Latency and audio tests are almost impossible to find. So finding a good motherboard/CPU combo is key.

All the other pieces, SSDs, GPUs, etc. etc. can just be purchased based on their specs. If the CPU/motherboard combo gives you good latency, the rest is easy.

gabo

ASUS laptop (AMD 5900HX), 32G, 2x2TB SSD, Win11-64, RME UFX & BabyFace, Studio One Pro 6, Addictive Drums2, Izotope 10, Soothe2, Waves, many plugins, Melodyne Studio 5, all versions updated frequently

The Moderns,
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1x6Fd133GftlRyRYl0xgjf
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by patm300e on Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:29 am
If I had to do it again, I would keep the motherboard, The M2 Drives, the memory...But I would drop down to the i7 chip. Would have saved probably about $100. But with the i9 I am future proof for a while. The case I used :
https://www.newegg.com/black-fractal-de ... 6811352048

and the CPU cooler:
https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-u12s/p ... 6835608040

I would HIGHLY recommend these two. The box is the quietest I have EVER heard. I am using onboard graphics, but right now it is only driving a 720p TV I am using as a monitor. This works fine.

I do have two IPS 24" monitors that I use, but my new studio needs to be built out and sound proofed...An expensive ordeal I have found.

Studio One 5.1 Professional on Home built i9 10900K on ASUS Z490 Prime-A with 32 GB RAM 64-bit Windows 10 Pro Premium 500GB M2 WD Black SSD (OS) 1TB M2 WD Black SSD Data Drive. Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD, and/or XR-18 USB 2.0 Interface. Single FaderPort , Behringer X-Touch control. Ozone 10 Advanced, Various Waves Plug-ins including Nx with Head Tracker and Ocean Way Nashville and Abbey Road studios.M-Audio Oxygen Pro Mini 32-Mini-Key Keyboard Controller, You Rock Guitar [Gen 2] Guitar MIDI Controller. Alesis DM10 MKII Studio Kit Electronic Drum Set.
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by reggie1979beatz on Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:04 pm
I got two problems:

1) It doesn't seem that with my research I'm going to get the ball-breaker I was hoping for at ANY cost.

2) Well that's good because unexpected purchases have got my visa bill through the roof since I posted this! :lol:

Bye......:roll:
User avatar
by Sidhu on Wed May 12, 2021 8:56 am
Hey folks!

Apologies for resurrecting a dormant thread, but its the latest DIY build thread I could find here.
I find myself in a desperate situation to get a home rig up. I haven't been doing any studio work for years, been touring, and now I'm finding my computers to be, well, too old.

Problem being, im a PC guy, little interest in Macs. But the m1 efficiencies had my interest. As a professional, ill use tools that serve me best. But i do enjoy building.
So I'm starting to spec a build. Around here in south asia, not including a GPU, AMD Zen2 and 3 chips still seem to come in cheaper than the intel 10th and 11th gen SKU's.
The only GPU available within what looks affordable (never mind reasonable) is the GT710.

For a budget build, anything would be an upgrade to what's available to me,
a Zen 2, series 5, B450 basic mobo build is costing me bout as much as a Macbook air m1.
And no Thunderbolt, so no legacy FW support, no AVB support (does come handy in the live scene)
I am not even considering the cost of a Windows 10 licence yet.

Im stumped. I am a bit of an AMD fanboy and was really looking forward to a Ryzen build for years. I have made a partslist of something ive been looking at and attached. But i am just not seeing the value.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tgQdQD

    CPU: *AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor
    CPU Cooler: Corsair H60 (2018) 57.2 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
    Motherboard: Gigabyte B450M DS3H V2 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard
    Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory
    Storage: Crucial P1 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
    Storage: Crucial BX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive
    Video Card: Asus GeForce GT 710 2 GB Video Card
    Case: Fractal Design Define 7 Compact ATX Mid Tower Case
    Power Supply: Corsair CV 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply
Total: $954.36

Out here, this is exactly equal to the cost of the Macbook Air m1 8gb model. What am i Missing ?

Advise ?

Top of my head system specs, upgrades due.
Workstation : Intel i7 3820 || DX79TO, 16gig RAM || GT710 Graphics || M-audio FW1820 / Presonus SL24 (1st gen) interface

Portable : HP Elitebook 8460p, 8gig Ram, 256GB SSD OS, 1TB 7200 upgrade bay, Intel i5 2520m
Focusrite Scarlet 4i4 3rd gen / MOTU microbook II

S1 v5.2 / Waves v9 plugins
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by Vocalpoint on Wed May 12, 2021 9:40 am
reggie1979beatz wroteI got two problems:

1) It doesn't seem that with my research I'm going to get the ball-breaker I was hoping for at ANY cost.

2) Well that's good because unexpected purchases have got my visa bill through the roof since I posted this! :lol:


You do need to weigh the importance of an implied "Ball breaker" vs the cost to get there.

No PC regardless of price point is going "lay to waste" anything build/bought say in the last 5 years. If you are replacing something like a circa 2012 machine (I finally got rid of our last one like this) - you will definitely "feel" a difference in speed.

I just built a new main S1 DAW in March and I choose the i5 10600K as my CPU - which is by all accounts - the best value chip to come along in a long while. The new machine was build on a ASUS z490 series and it replaced a circa 2018 ASUS z370 series with an i7 8700K.

Is it light years faster - no. Will it last me the next 3 years and do the job - in spades. This machine is about as fast and as smooth as I could get at this price point and no amount of extra anything will make it "feel" faster.

My take is that the overall package (motherboard, RAM, video) when properly matched and setup - determines the overall "vibe" of the machine. There is really no concept of "buying" a mind blowing speed change these days - it's all incremental and subtle. And a fine art to determine that "sweet spot". I hate overpaying for "implied" performance.

As long as S1 runs well and I get my work done - it's just a current computer to me.

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
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by leosutherland on Wed May 12, 2021 10:18 am
My setup (as in my signature) is about 4 years(?) old, but I find that I'm really only using less than 40%-ish of its available power/performance.

But I suppose that could easily be explained because my music is maybe simpler than others :D

The thing is it did cost me £1100 from Scan Computers (here in the UK, they design among others audio-specific PCs) to get an optimized system - remember though it is 4 years or so old, so maybe things have improved since.

...said Halo

Studio One Pro v4.6.2 / v5.5.2 / v6.5.2
Serum, Diva, Repro, Synthmaster, Syntronik Bully, MTron Pro, Kontakt 6/7, AIR synths, Cherry Audio synths, Battery 4, PPG Wave 3.V, Generate

3XS SQ170 Music Studio PC
Windows 10 x64 (22H2)
i7 8700 Hexcore 3.2GHz, 16GB, 2TB 970 EVO+ M.2 NVMe SSD + 1TB SATA HD
Scarlett 2i4 (G2), Korg Taktile 25, Faderport 2018, ATOM


Beyerdynamic DT990 Pros, JBL 305P II speakers
User avatar
by Sidhu on Wed May 12, 2021 10:38 am
I guess a simpler question would be, ARM compatibility considered, for about USD900, buying/building today, can I do markedly better with x86 over apple silicon ?

I say markedly cause with apple silicon, i have almost assured compatibility with thunderbolt and AVB devices (including legacy firewire?) and mobility.

Top of my head system specs, upgrades due.
Workstation : Intel i7 3820 || DX79TO, 16gig RAM || GT710 Graphics || M-audio FW1820 / Presonus SL24 (1st gen) interface

Portable : HP Elitebook 8460p, 8gig Ram, 256GB SSD OS, 1TB 7200 upgrade bay, Intel i5 2520m
Focusrite Scarlet 4i4 3rd gen / MOTU microbook II

S1 v5.2 / Waves v9 plugins
User avatar
by reggie1979beatz on Wed May 12, 2021 10:53 am
Vocalpoint wrote
reggie1979beatz wroteI got two problems:

1) It doesn't seem that with my research I'm going to get the ball-breaker I was hoping for at ANY cost.

2) Well that's good because unexpected purchases have got my visa bill through the roof since I posted this! :lol:


You do need to weigh the importance of an implied "Ball breaker" vs the cost to get there.

No PC regardless of price point is going "lay to waste" anything build/bought say in the last 5 years. If you are replacing something like a circa 2012 machine (I finally got rid of our last one like this) - you will definitely "feel" a difference in speed.

I just built a new main S1 DAW in March and I choose the i5 10600K as my CPU - which is by all accounts - the best value chip to come along in a long while. The new machine was build on a ASUS z490 series and it replaced a circa 2018 ASUS z370 series with an i7 8700K.

Is it light years faster - no. Will it last me the next 3 years and do the job - in spades. This machine is about as fast and as smooth as I could get at this price point and no amount of extra anything will make it "feel" faster.

My take is that the overall package (motherboard, RAM, video) when properly matched and setup - determines the overall "vibe" of the machine. There is really no concept of "buying" a mind blowing speed change these days - it's all incremental and subtle. And a fine art to determine that "sweet spot". I hate overpaying for "implied" performance.

As long as S1 runs well and I get my work done - it's just a current computer to me.

VP


Yeah, that's why I gave up. It's just wasted money for me. S1 5 hasn't been that stable and considering the many people that talk GB vs cores I will stand pat for now.

Bye......:roll:
User avatar
by Vocalpoint on Wed May 12, 2021 11:03 am
reggie1979beatz wroteYeah, that's why I gave up. It's just wasted money for me. S1 5 hasn't been that stable and considering the many people that talk GB vs cores I will stand pat for now.


I really only upgrade to have some recent hardware and I have been on a general 3 year plan for the last 10 or 12 years - but now with Windows 10 changing so little and hardware being so solid - I am now moving toward a 5 year plan.

It's like anything else - remember the days when people used to line up for a new iPhone at the Apple Store? Those days are done now - my 2 or 3 year phone is working just fine.

For me - as long as Windows is solid and S1 is slid - I have no need to have the latest and greatest year in and year out.

Give me a well built machine every few years that is mature and stable - and I am happy.

VP

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
User avatar
by Vocalpoint on Wed May 12, 2021 11:03 am
Double post.
Last edited by Vocalpoint on Wed May 12, 2021 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DAW: Studio One Pro 6.5.1.96553 | Host OS: Windows 10 Pro 22H2 | Motherboard: ASUS PRIME z790-A | CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-13600K | RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64GB | Graphics: Intel UHD 770 (HDMI) | Audio Interface: RME UCX II (v1.246) | OS Drive : Samsung 990 PRO (1TB) | Media Drive: Samsung 970 EVO Plus (500GB) | Libraries: Samsung 970 EVO+ (2TB) | Samples : Seagate FireCuda (2TB) | Monitoring: Presonus Monitor Station v2 + Presonus Eris 5 | MIDI Control: Native Instruments Komplete S61 & Presonus ATOM
User avatar
by reggie1979beatz on Wed May 12, 2021 12:47 pm
Cool, double post :D

Bye......:roll:
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by ryanconway1 on Thu May 13, 2021 5:26 am
I have a 5950x on an Asus ProArt Creator, interface is a RME HDSPe MADI in a Node Duo TB/PCIe interface connected to a ferrofish pulse 16 dante. Also have 7980xe hackintoshes and have tested M1 MBP- all with the same interface.

The short version is the Ryzen is, by quite a significant margin, the superior low latency performer. In single core performance (S1 ZLM), it's almost unreal. A the 32 sample buffer I can create a instrument with Diva, Massive-X and ST modular and play all 3 simultaneously.

I did some tests vs M1, will have time to follow up with 7980xe in the next week or so, using the same interface above. In Reaper (running native on M1) using instances of FabFilter (also native on M1) and W10 on the 5950x, I'm able to run 13 instances of Pro-R in series at the 32 sample buffer, vs 7 on the M1- With a different interface (will check with the same asap), only 4 on the 7980x. The differences are less dramatic as you move up in buffer sizes, but Zen3 get's my vote for audio.

TB works great as well, using for all KVM/usb3 and audio interface, just the one cable from the machine room.

I haven't tested any 11th gen intel, I would be surprised if it was that big of a change here from 10th, but in lieu of any data who knows.

Food for thought there...

5950x Win11 (Awesome!)
3x 7980xe hacks with Catalina
36TB server 10Gbe network
HDSPe MADI in TB enclosure (2), Focusrite Red8Pre (2), Quantum, Studio 192
S1 Pro, PT|Ultimate, Logic, Ableton, Wavelab
Console1, Avid Artist Mix and Dock, Kontrol 88 and 69mkii.
User avatar
by Sidhu on Thu May 13, 2021 12:59 pm
Thanks Ryan!
That's very meaningful.
Please help, what does (S1 ZLM) mean ?
You have a sweet setup my man! Curious why 3 x hacks ?

If i ever start making money of studio productions again, the RME AIO is almost certainly my audio upgrade.

My takeaway here is that your Ryzen 3 rig is substantially costlier than the m1 ? And as such the m1 holds its own for what it sells at ? 13 vs 7 doesn't sound bad, you have a top line ryzen build!

Low latency performance is important to me. Im 100% in the box. None the less, Im really not wanting to shell out anywhere close to a 1000USD. I started this earlier this week with the false assumption the USD500 would get me a decent Zen2/3 build. I was hugely mistaken.

So looking at the used market, and the Dell Optilex 3060 full size intel i7 8700 8th gen, 16gig machine for bout exactly half the price of a new m1 mini (8/512). Think this is a good deal ? I will upgrade with an m.2, rest i think is good to go. In budget.

I like the case, and I think 8th gen i7 are fairly upto speed ?
https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/optiplex- ... _en-us.pdf

Thank you all for the advice.

Top of my head system specs, upgrades due.
Workstation : Intel i7 3820 || DX79TO, 16gig RAM || GT710 Graphics || M-audio FW1820 / Presonus SL24 (1st gen) interface

Portable : HP Elitebook 8460p, 8gig Ram, 256GB SSD OS, 1TB 7200 upgrade bay, Intel i5 2520m
Focusrite Scarlet 4i4 3rd gen / MOTU microbook II

S1 v5.2 / Waves v9 plugins
User avatar
by shanabit on Fri May 14, 2021 9:48 am
reggie1979beatz wrote
Bub wroteit's a bad time to buy video cards.


EEEEK, you are right!

This is looking less and less attractive.



Yep, I wanted to upgrade my card on my Mac here.

The card was selling at $225. It is now over $600, not happening. Ill save that for a future PC build here

DDR5 is coming out so.....

StudioOnePro 6.1
UA Apollo Twin
OSX Sonoma 14.2

iMac 2013
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by ryanconway1 on Sat May 15, 2021 12:13 pm
Sidhu wroteLow latency performance is important to me. Im 100% in the box. None the less, Im really not wanting to shell out anywhere close to a 1000USD. I started this earlier this week with the false assumption the USD500 would get me a decent Zen2/3 build. I was hugely mistaken.


I don't know what all you're balancing budget wise, but I was playing around on PCpartpicker and I would shoot for a 5600x over the dell if you can swing it. I was able to get something together for around 650-700- Case, PS, 5600x, b550, 16gb 3766 ram, 1tb m.2...

It looks like AMD will be doing the warhol Zen3+, so you would have an upgrade path up to the 7950x or whatever they call the next one before they switch to AM5. That would set you up for a lot of years of happy music making...

Particularly with ZLM, single-core performance makes a huge difference with low latency performance. So a 5600x will likely be about the same there as a 5950x here- the bigger core one will simply work better for huge sessions or really big ones at 96k etc.

With ZLM, this makes a really big difference to overall workflow. On intel (even 7980xe here), in order to record heavy VI's or a full drum set in large sessions, I have to up the buffer, sometimes disable send/insert FX, freeze other heavy tracks etc. On the 5950x I can just leave it set to 32 all the time and rarely even need to disable my typical heavy 2 bus chain (unisum, teote, limitless, L-2) to record (usually this makes sense to do anyway, but I don't have to).

Caveat that I haven't actually used a 5600x, but I do know that ZLM only uses the one core...

5950x Win11 (Awesome!)
3x 7980xe hacks with Catalina
36TB server 10Gbe network
HDSPe MADI in TB enclosure (2), Focusrite Red8Pre (2), Quantum, Studio 192
S1 Pro, PT|Ultimate, Logic, Ableton, Wavelab
Console1, Avid Artist Mix and Dock, Kontrol 88 and 69mkii.
User avatar
by reggie1979beatz on Sat May 15, 2021 3:13 pm
It's just too confusing to me. Budget, high price, video cards through the roof, cores, core GHZ. Makes me really appreciate what I have :lol:

Bye......:roll:
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by Sidhu on Sat May 22, 2021 1:47 am
ryanconway1 wroteI don't know what all you're balancing budget wise, but I was playing around on PCpartpicker and I would shoot for a 5600x over the dell if you can swing it. I was able to get something together for around 650-700- Case, PS, 5600x, b550, 16gb 3766 ram, 1tb m.2...

It looks like AMD will be doing the warhol Zen3+, so you would have an upgrade path up to the 7950x or whatever they call the next one before they switch to AM5. That would set you up for a lot of years of happy music making...

Particularly with ZLM, single-core performance makes a huge difference with low latency


Thanks Ryan!
If AMD continues to stick with AM4 and offer compatibility to mid tier chipsets that would indeed be a plus!
Out here cmponent prices continue to be off the charts and a new build is very unlikely, but I am on the lookout for some folks getting rid of their gaming rigs. Would need a new chasis either which ways, I dont think I could live with what all im seeing. All the RGB! hehe

If I could get a lowly AM4 mid teir chip which would set me up for a reasonable upgrade when I need it it could be a fair spreading of expenses over time, if for nothing else. But i am supposing anything under a 550/570 would not be compatible with the next gen of AM4 SKU's

Top of my head system specs, upgrades due.
Workstation : Intel i7 3820 || DX79TO, 16gig RAM || GT710 Graphics || M-audio FW1820 / Presonus SL24 (1st gen) interface

Portable : HP Elitebook 8460p, 8gig Ram, 256GB SSD OS, 1TB 7200 upgrade bay, Intel i5 2520m
Focusrite Scarlet 4i4 3rd gen / MOTU microbook II

S1 v5.2 / Waves v9 plugins

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