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I have just upgraded to Studio 5 :D as I wanted to get the keyswitching lane and simple manuscript(use Sibelius for proper scoring). It is all working which is good.

However, I own some of the Vienna Symphonic Libraries and these have a 'tree structure' approach to keyswitching.

Example of tree structure.png
Example of tree structure.png (77.94 KiB) Viewed 5673 times

For example on violins....This means that you press one key to select 'Tremolo and Trills' then within that choice you could select tremolo, trem.marcato, half tone trill etc. (see attached picture)

Because of this, the same key (e.g. C2) performs multiple functions dependant on the previous 'tree selection'.

I have started programming the first articulations (blue in picture) for each instrument but obviously the purple ones can not be named as they change depending on the first choice so I have just named them by the notes.

Is there a way of indicating this on Studio One keyswitch lane?
Am I missing an easy solution?
Has someone already done all this and can share the presets?

Many thanks in advance for any help and advice.

:thumbup:

Richard

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by Tacman7 on Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:08 pm
Is this about velocity? Same note, different velocities trigger different switches?

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by richardsizer on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:12 pm
Thanks for replying Tacman.

No....it's not about velocity.

I'll try and be clearer .......

If you look at the attached picture
Example of tree structure.png
Example of tree structure.png (77.94 KiB) Viewed 5655 times


You can see how the Synchron Player works for VSL. You get an articulation (in blue) which you select with a key and then a further type of articulation which you select from the second purple menu.

In the picture of the violin articulations you should be able to see that tremolo is selected, which I selected by pressing E1 and C2

If I wanted the violins to play a half tone trill instead, I would have to press E1 and D2 (or if the blue Tremolo + Trills first menu is already selected then I could change it just with D2)

The problem lies in the fact that pressing D2 when I am on another articulation such as Short notes (C#) it will select detache short from that menu (see picture):

2nd example of tree structure.png
2nd example of tree structure.png (77.82 KiB) Viewed 5655 times

This means that the same keys are performing different functions based on the tree structure menu.

Therefore, unless I am missing something, the new key switch lane is not much use for Vienna Libraries. :cry: One of the main reasons I bought the upgrade.

If anyone has any advice about using VSL with Studio One I would be very grateful.

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by Tacman7 on Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:10 pm
So that would need a multi note keyswitch. The Legato would be D1 and you'd need D2 for Detache.

Only way I see is make your keyswitches for articulations then the type would have to be placed in above the keyswitches manually.

I will check on this.

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by ericma2 on Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:17 am
I haven't run in to this issue yet. I'm using Andromeda and the Big Bang Free Syncrhons. So if I'm understanding correctly.. D2 when you're on the Short Notes articulation will select Detache Short, which is C#2, instead of Detache?

I know for my setup, Andromeda... the initial articulation is Senza Piccolo and Con Piccolo starting from key A0(w). In my Articulation template (pic attached) I had to start from A-1 for Senza Piccolo and B-1 for Con Piccolo. All the sub articulations under "Type" in Synchron starts from C7 so I don't label them in Studio One with articulation names because they change depending on the root articulation. I have to refer visually in Synchron to see what I'm triggering in the "Type" section. It's a minor inconvenience but this works for me with the nested articulations in Synchron.

Not sure if this helps or is confusing.

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Screen Shot 2020-08-27 at 12.57.07 PM.png

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by Tacman7 on Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:13 pm
You have multiple lanes of keyswitches? I couldn't get that.

I was able to get two keyswitches in the same space but I wasn't able to do any more.

Double keyswitch.JPG

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by ericma2 on Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:20 pm
I think the trick is to stretch them out so they stack on top of each other.

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Screen Shot 2020-08-27 at 4.19.01 PM.png
E7 Articulation not completely stretched out
Screen Shot 2020-08-27 at 4.16.28 PM.png
E7 Articulation stretched out

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by Tacman7 on Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:33 pm
Ok, cool, got it!

Thanks

ManyKeys.JPG

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by Tacman7 on Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:22 pm
To the OP:
So is this how you would set it up for VSL?


VSLkeys.JPG

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by richardsizer on Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:05 pm
Thanks to everyone for joining in on this question.

Ericma2 said:

All the sub articulations under "Type" in Synchron starts from C7 so I don't label them in Studio One with articulation names because they change depending on the root articulation. I have to refer visually in Synchron to see what I'm triggering in the "Type" section. It's a minor inconvenience but this works for me with the nested articulations in Synchron.

.......this is exactly what I have ended up doing for VSL as well. I have named the 'root' (which is articulation in VSL) and then had to leave the secondary menu ('type' in VSL).

It's a shame because the idea of the articulation lane was to be able to see immediately what articulation the instrument would be playing without having to refer to the 'key legend' on the instrument. With 'tree' menu articulations this is not yet possible in Studio One.

There is another work around for VSL though................

If you refer to the previous pictures you will see that the bottom articulation in the menu is called 'Custom'. Here you can load in your most used articulations. Therefore, in theory you could just use the custom menu and the secondary menu ('Type' in VSL) and label each keyswitch correctly.

The only problem with that is that unless you use the same articulations all the time you will still have times when you will use the normal structure and it will be unnamed. It will also entail a lot of prep work!

Hope that makes sense - it's getting late here in the UK ;)

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by richardsizer on Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:23 pm
Sorry Tacman7, I realised I didn't answer your question.

This is an example of how I have set it up so far:

example of key switch.png


Here you can see the keyswitch list I have set up for VSL violin:

Root menu of 'articulation' is C0-G#0 and named fully
Secondary menu of 'type' is C1-F#1 and can not be named properly as it changes based on the first menu. I have had to just name the note so I can quickly check against the instrument list to see what the 'type' will be (I think this is similar to what ericma2 did).

(As a side note: Not sure why VSL lists everything one octave higher than actual - I remember something about this in a Cubase discussion from years ago but cannot remember why this happens) :oops:

I would be interested in how you extended the coloured bars themselves. If I put them directly on each other they stack up, but if I put just a single then it ends both bars in the stack. I can move the beginning of a coloured bar which automatically moves the end of the previous ones but not extend over it.

For example in the picture above the yellow Legato bar should extend right through to the red Short Notes bar with the C and C# changes happening underneath. I can force this by putting in a Legato every time there is a change but I'd rather find an alternative so the 'parent' keyswitch could remain throughout.

Unless I have missed something, I don't think the tree structure key switching can be accommodated in Studio One 5 at present. Maybe there could be 2 keyswitch lanes with one 'parenting' the other?

Anyway........night has turned to morning, so probably making even less sense! :roll:

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by Tacman7 on Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:09 pm
richardsizer wroteFor example in the picture above the yellow Legato bar should extend right through to the red Short Notes bar with the C and C# changes happening underneath. I can force this by putting in a Legato every time there is a change but I'd rather find an alternative so the 'parent' keyswitch could remain throughout.


I don't know how your instrument works, like when it receives a primary keyswitch(c1-b1) then later receives a secondary keyswitch does it need another primary to go with it? Or can it just add the primary it already has?

The bar length wouldn't matter, A long bar only has one small note at the start of it.

Zooming way in seems to help.

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by richardsizer on Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:51 pm
Tacman7 wroteI don't know how your instrument works, like when it receives a primary keyswitch(c1-b1) then later receives a secondary keyswitch does it need another primary to go with it? Or can it just add the primary it already has?


Yep that's exactly how it works. :thumbup: Once the primary (e.g. short notes) is selected you can move around the secondary menu with just the secondary keys. You only need to use a primary again for a 'big' change (e.g. short notes to long notes).

I could add the primary keyswitch each time so it retains the double bar in the lane (for articulation and type) but otherwise the articulation bar (e.g. legato, short notes.....) will end with each change to the secondary.

Shame, but can't see an easy solution unless the tree structure is reflected in the structure of the lanes.

Still a good improvement over Studio 4 in this regard but not perfect for instruments with tree structure articulations.

Richard

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by ericma2 on Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:50 pm
I'm gonna test this out further. I don't see this happening to me with the synchron patches I'm working with right now. I just updated to the Synchronized Special Editions so I'll have more patches to work with. I'll report back.

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by richardsizer on Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:00 pm
Thanks Tacman,

I have already made some lane presets for VSL Synchron-ized Special Edition 1 and 1plus but I don't know how to share these if you wanted to test them or save yourself some work.

Richard

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by ericma2 on Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:26 pm
on macOS the Keyswitch Presets are:
Documents>Studio One>Presets>User Presets>Key Switches

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by richardsizer on Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:10 pm
ericma2 wroteon macOS the Keyswitch Presets are:
Documents>Studio One>Presets>User Presets>Key Switches


Yep, I can see them on my hard drive:

list of keyswitches.png


If anyone wants these to save time, then let me know and I guess I can just send them?

These instrumental keyswitches are for the Vienna SYNCHRON-ized SPECIAL EDITION BUNDLE 1 and 1 plus:

what I have.png


I shall keep creating more as I need them. :thumbup:

Richard

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by ericma2 on Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:07 pm
Yeah I'll take a look at them!

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by richardsizer on Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:02 pm
ericma2 wroteYeah I'll take a look at them!


OK.

I don't know how to send private messages, mail or whatever (forum newbie) so I'll just post them here as someone else might find them useful anyway.

Oh it won't let me............... :oops: ............

It says:

The extension keyswitch is not allowed - when I try to upload the file. Is there an official way to do this does anyone know?

Richard

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by richardsizer on Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:36 pm
Thanks for the PM Ericma.

I have now uploaded the VSL key switches to: https://my.presonus.com/exchange/browse/all

All you need to do is put VSL into the search and it should take you to the key switch presets.

Hope it helps someone :thumbup:

Richard

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