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leonseaman wrote
Funkybot wrote
If so, in user devices config files you only need to make a change like:-

<Control name="Knob1" title="Control1" type="knob" options="receive nofeedback public">
to
<Control name="Knob1" title="Control1" type="relative" options="receive nofeedback public">

And that will set up the control surface in S1 for relative messages.


Unfortunately, there is no real standard for relative increments. Some devices send 41 for decreases and 01 for increases, the MF Twister uses 3F for decreases and 41 for increases. Some transmit additional values or ranges to add velocity sensitivity. So if the Relative mode works, my suspicion is it will be very device dependent. It does not work for the MIDI Fighter Twister for example using your advice (I did try it out and thanks anyway).

Here are some examples of what I'm talking about...

Behringer X-Touch One:
Decreasing: 41-48
Increasing: 01-08

MCU:
Decreasing: 41
Increasing: 01

MIDI Fighter Twister:
Decreasing: 3f (no velocity)
Increasing: 41 (no velocity)

Decreasing with Velocity: 3f 3e 3d 3c 3b 3a 39 38 36 33 2f
Increasing with Velocity: 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 4a 4d 51

AMD Ryzen 3950X, ASUS Creator x570 Mobo, 32GB HyperX Predator RAM (3600mhz), Radeon™ RX 5500 XT 4GB GDDR6 graphics card, RME Fireface 800, Windows 10 Pro, Studio One 5, Reaper 6, Cubase 10.5, Avid Artist Mix (EuCon please), Behringer X-Touch One, MIDI Fighter Twister, various other MIDI control surfaces and hardware instruments
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by leonseaman on Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:49 pm
niles wroteJust add 'pageable' to the options of the controls you want to be pageable.

This is incredible, but now i'm left wondering why this is the first i've seen of this despite googling like crazy. Even if i google for it only this forum post shows up - did you discover it by yourself? Do you have access to some hidden information?

It works brilliantly, and infact, it lead me back to investigating the FP8/16 default mappings and in there i also discover a pagingMode parameter, and i've adapted that into my own mapping as so:-

Code: Select all
<using device="Editor/Paging">
 <Toggle control="Button[5]" param="pagingMode" value="2" radiovalue="2" offvalue="1"/>
 <Toggle control="Button[6]" param="prevPage"/>
 <Toggle control="Button[7]" param="nextPage"/>
</using>           


That pagingMode parameter appears to toggle between 'discovered' parameters for inserts or instruments, i guess from reading the automation data that's exposed from each.... And it premaps across your controller.

Please, if you've found anything else in regards to this Editor/Paging tags could you share? I was maybe hoping that a page selector, i.e. to jump to a defined page may exist? I doubt it does, but that's why i was fishing the FP8/16 xml's.

Thanks again for this info though, it's really quite considerable difference to me.

Win10 Desktop - I7-4790/IGU/SSD (Main audio machine) | Win10 Laptop - i7-950H/GTX1660Ti/SSD | 12 Core 2012 Xeon Mac Pro | 2008 Mac Pro | 2012 Macbook Pro | 2015 iMac | Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 + ADATs | PreSonus Sphere | Waves | Arturia V Collection | Komplete Suite | Mackie MCU | Yamaha MOXF8 | Roland FA06, System-1, TD-1KV | Korg Microkorg | Komplete S61 Mk2 | Maschine Mk2 | Nektar P6
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by leonseaman on Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:26 pm
AngusY wroteI now have about 100 tabs on my browser open with controller reviews, Midi articles, and Youtube tutorials.

Don't overthink it too much lol, Studio One is very adaptable to any controller and you can map on the fly. Make sure you prioritise controllers that are of good build quality and you'll be really happy.

I think a tablet option has merit and I plan on trying it before choosing a controller, but like many of you I prefer the tactile control of knobs.

Yeah the tablet controllers are great and very functional. However, for parameter adjustments i find them more tiring/lifeless than a physical control. But if you've got a tablet already they're a free option with the S1 remote app. I find that the shortcut controls is where a tablet really excels.

Your suggestion of the Nektar Panorama P1 looks pretty great actually
Has there been confirmation from users that the "soft takeover" actually works?

Yes i have a P6, but it's at a friends studio right now. As soon as i get it back i'll check that for you and confirm. I'm 99% sure it does work, but i've used my Nektar with Cubase, Reaper and Logic so my memory could be distorted from them. I'm sure the faders on the screen show a little line where the current position is, and doesn't move until you raise the fader beyond that position.

Also, when you are tweaking a parameter, does the screen tell you which parameter it's assigned to?

Yup exactly that, on the screen you see the parameter and it's value. The same is true with Mackie/MCU controllers that have a screen too. The Nektars work great, the only downside is that you're limited to the 8 parameters via their integrated control* (They've not incorporated banking last time i checked), and there isn't enough characters on the display to clearly see each track name (If you wanted to use if for fader control).

*When i refer to the integrated control this is whereby the parameter name and value is read from Studio One and displayed on screen. Vanilla MIDI control doesn't have that level of display feedback.

One thing I am trying to understand is the concept of "banks." The main reason I am pretty hung up on having a lot of encoders is for my amp sims, so I can have a bunch of stompboxes up and tweak the parameters on each one as I look for sounds.
.
Ok, so briefly, most MIDI controls have presets, and then banks within those presets. So yes, your physical controls will have MIDI CC's assigned to them, and then you bank through what those CC's are.
i.e.:-
Bank 1 [CC12] [CC13] [CC14] [CC15] etc.
Bank 2 [CC20] [CC21] [CC22] [CC23]

and then you assign those CC's in your DAW, and use the physical bank controls on your controller to flip between. Effectively this means that Studio One mappings are fixed to set Midi CC's and you're traversing your controller through them.

What i've just discovered today is that Studio One also has a bank/paging system - that means that you can have 8 (for example) fixed controls on your hardware (i.e. you would stay in bank 1 on the controller), and then set aside two buttons to send a command to Studio One to page/bank through sets of 8x parameters. This means your controller stays fixed and Studio One does the traversing.

I don't know if there is a page limit, but i tried 6 pages earlier and it works great. The great joy with this system is that you could map 100's of parameters but only ever use 8x MIDI CC's assignments.

Do the Nektar Panorama or the Komplete Control series have similar functionality to allow for mapping several dozen parameters within a single plugin, by having multiple banks or channels for the physical encoders?

Nektar and Komplete both have their own S1 'integrated' mapping system, but they also both have MIDI modes where you can set them up as vanilla devices.

Nektar P Series is a deeper integration within the internals of Studio One, so is a transparent controller. Nektar T Series it's not as transparent and plugin maps require their Nektarine wrapper. I'm a big fan of the P series, but not so much the T.

Komplete has a better display but the only kind of transparent integration is via the mixer faders and pans. Everything else has to go through the Komplete Kontrol VST wrapper (Which then hosts other plugins).. Which is a similar concept to the Nektar T's.

However, with the Komplete controllers you can label up knobs and buttons via the screen in MIDI mode and make it quite an effective vanilla controller. So there's some parity there. I find the Komplete controllers a little more useful purely because of the better screen and you can see track names far better on the mixer view.

I wish Nektar brought an upgraded P Series with better screen (higher res/faster update) and it would be a killer controller. However, they're having to compete with companies like NI who are using wrappers so i can see why the T Series is what it is.

Doesn't having a remote interface that sits pinned to the screen in S1 take up tons of screen real estate?


See screenshot as an example, that's from a 1080P monitor. I have two so i pin it on the left screen usually. You can also get rid of the keyboard from that view with a custom skin i beleive:-
Annotation 2020-07-20 021857.png


Even on something like the X-Touch Mini or Killamix Mini with only 8 or 9 encoders, I think with multiple banks the encoders displayed on screen would be more like several dozen, correct?

Nope, because you can use the paging system of Studio One - meaning only 8-9 parameters shown on display and when you page left/right they update with the next set of mappings you have for that plugin or instrument.

On my screenshot you can see 8 rotaries, and only 5 buttons - that's because button 6 is an automap button now, and 7-8 is my page up/down. And i chose to not display them on the screen, incase i accidentally map over them.

Your last comment is totally on point. I am new to Midi but a closet geek and could easily see myself spending hours trying to map things and make them work just out of curiosity.

I know quite a few like myself from various DAW forums, it's an awful 'hobby' to have - too much procrastinating lol.

Particularly as i work long hours i find myself so tired to be creative and make music at night so i resort to setting controllers up and spending my time around music in other ways. It's really sad, i mean right now it's 2.23am here and i've spent the past 3 hours watching Johnny Lipshams stream on Studio One and adjusting .xml files, and now i'm posting on here.

I sat down at 11pm to make music lol. Heed my warning! :-)

Win10 Desktop - I7-4790/IGU/SSD (Main audio machine) | Win10 Laptop - i7-950H/GTX1660Ti/SSD | 12 Core 2012 Xeon Mac Pro | 2008 Mac Pro | 2012 Macbook Pro | 2015 iMac | Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 + ADATs | PreSonus Sphere | Waves | Arturia V Collection | Komplete Suite | Mackie MCU | Yamaha MOXF8 | Roland FA06, System-1, TD-1KV | Korg Microkorg | Komplete S61 Mk2 | Maschine Mk2 | Nektar P6
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by niles on Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:19 am
leonseaman wrote
niles wroteJust add 'pageable' to the options of the controls you want to be pageable.

This is incredible, but now i'm left wondering why this is the first i've seen of this despite googling like crazy. Even if i google for it only this forum post shows up - did you discover it by yourself? Do you have access to some hidden information?
No I don't have access to hidden information. When I saw they added pages to the Faderport 8/16 in 4.5.5, like you I started investigating the files to see if it was something I can use too for my custom device maps.

leonseaman wroteIt works brilliantly, and infact, it lead me back to investigating the FP8/16 default mappings and in there i also discover a pagingMode parameter, and i've adapted that into my own mapping as so:-
Yes, nice one. I came across it but did not experimented with it. Good to see it works.

leonseaman wrotePlease, if you've found anything else in regards to this Editor/Paging tags could you share? I was maybe hoping that a page selector, i.e. to jump to a defined page may exist? I doubt it does, but that's why i was fishing the FP8/16 xml's.
I've searched for that too but did not find it. There is a pagingStatus but it seems only for reporting the current page and total pages as string. Maybe it's of use:

Code: Select all
    <Global>
         <using device="Editor/Paging">
            <String control="myPageDisplay" param="pagingStatus"/>
         </using>
    </Global>
For the display I used:

Code: Select all
  <Controls>
    <Control name="myPageDisplay" title="Page" type="textdisplay" options="public"/>
  </Controls>
leonseaman wroteThanks again for this info though, it's really quite considerable difference to me.
No problem. I too think the paging is super useful and begs even more for takeover/pickup. Since now you can add a lot of parameters to the standard 8 knob devices.

When daydreaming a little further, a quick way to show the currently focused parameters would be nice too. Something like this but better.
Image

Attachments
current_controls.jpg
mock up

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by AngusY on Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:38 pm
Funkybot wrote
leonseaman wrote
Funkybot wrote
If so, in user devices config files you only need to make a change like:-

<Control name="Knob1" title="Control1" type="knob" options="receive nofeedback public">
to
<Control name="Knob1" title="Control1" type="relative" options="receive nofeedback public">

And that will set up the control surface in S1 for relative messages.


Unfortunately, there is no real standard for relative increments. Some devices send 41 for decreases and 01 for increases, the MF Twister uses 3F for decreases and 41 for increases. Some transmit additional values or ranges to add velocity sensitivity. So if the Relative mode works, my suspicion is it will be very device dependent. It does not work for the MIDI Fighter Twister for example using your advice (I did try it out and thanks anyway).

Here are some examples of what I'm talking about...

Behringer X-Touch One:
Decreasing: 41-48
Increasing: 01-08

MCU:
Decreasing: 41
Increasing: 01

MIDI Fighter Twister:
Decreasing: 3f (no velocity)
Increasing: 41 (no velocity)

Decreasing with Velocity: 3f 3e 3d 3c 3b 3a 39 38 36 33 2f
Increasing with Velocity: 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 4a 4d 51


Thanks for your comments on the Midi Fighter twister - glad to hear it's working relatively well in S1. I am definitely interested in this controller because of the LED feedback - have you been able to get that working well in S1? I am hoping to see the LEDs for each encoder move as I switch between plugins.

Also, have you tried setting up the "pageable" option for the MFT as described in this thread? Seems like it could be a good solution. For me personally, I think 16 encoders would be enough to cover probably 90% of my plugins, but for those with lots of parameters it might be nice to have the pageable option as a means of switching parameters rather than changing banks on the hardware.
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by AngusY on Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:32 pm
leonseaman wrote
Your suggestion of the Nektar Panorama P1 looks pretty great actually.
Has there been confirmation from users that the "soft takeover" actually works?

----Yes i have a P6, but it's at a friends studio right now. As soon as i get it back i'll check that for you and confirm.

That would be great - Thanks!

leonseaman wrote The Nektars work great, the only downside is that you're limited to the 8 parameters via their integrated control* (They've not incorporated banking last time i checked), and there isn't enough characters on the display to clearly see each track name (If you wanted to use if for fader control).

*When i refer to the integrated control this is whereby the parameter name and value is read from Studio One and displayed on screen. Vanilla MIDI control doesn't have that level of display feedback.

Does this mean if you set up the Nektar P1 as a generic Midi controller, that you can't have S1 send the Parameter name & value to the device and have it displayed on the controller's screen? If you set these up as a general Midi controller, any idea if they would they still have soft takeover?

Conversely, if I used Nektar's integrated control, do you have any idea if S1's newly-discovered bank/paging system would still work? For example, when I change "pages" within S1, would the P1's screen update by displaying the parameters on the newly selected page? If so that might solve all my problems.

leonseaman wroteWhat i've just discovered today is that Studio One also has a bank/paging system - that means that you can have 8 (for example) fixed controls on your hardware (i.e. you would stay in bank 1 on the controller), and then set aside two buttons to send a command to Studio One to page/bank through sets of 8x parameters. This means your controller stays fixed and Studio One does the traversing.

I don't know if there is a page limit, but i tried 6 pages earlier and it works great. The great joy with this system is that you could map 100's of parameters but only ever use 8x MIDI CC's assignments.

Similar to my question above about the banking/paging system and compatibility with the LCD screen on the Nektar P1 - d o you have any idea if these "pages" would be compatible with LED feedback, for example on the Midi Fighter Twister, X-Touch Mini or Kenton Killamix? In other words, when you switch to a different "page" within S1, would the position of the encoder LEDs update to reflect the parameters on the newly selected page?

Nektar and Komplete both have their own S1 'integrated' mapping system, but they also both have MIDI modes where you can set them up as vanilla devices.

Nektar P Series is a deeper integration within the internals of Studio One, so is a transparent controller. Nektar T Series it's not as transparent and plugin maps require their Nektarine wrapper. I'm a big fan of the P series, but not so much the T.

Komplete has a better display but the only kind of transparent integration is via the mixer faders and pans. Everything else has to go through the Komplete Kontrol VST wrapper (Which then hosts other plugins).. Which is a similar concept to the Nektar T's.

However, with the Komplete controllers you can label up knobs and buttons via the screen in MIDI mode and make it quite an effective vanilla controller. So there's some parity there. I find the Komplete controllers a little more useful purely because of the better screen and you can see track names far better on the mixer view.

I wish Nektar brought an upgraded P Series with better screen (higher res/faster update) and it would be a killer controller. However, they're having to compete with companies like NI who are using wrappers so i can see why the T Series is what it is.

I admit you kind of lost me here - I will need to do some reading on VST wrappers and what they are.

See screenshot as an example, that's from a 1080P monitor. I have two so i pin it on the left screen usually. You can also get rid of the keyboard from that view with a custom skin i beleive:-
Annotation 2020-07-20 021857.png

With just a single a monitor I don't have a lot of real estate to give up, however I'm curious if I could set up some kind of command from my Midi Controller to make that window pop up & disappear on command. That way when I need to see it I could push a couple buttons on my controller and have it pop up, and when I don't I could hide it. Any thoughts on whether that's possible?

On my screenshot you can see 8 rotaries, and only 5 buttons - that's because button 6 is an automap button now, and 7-8 is my page up/down. And i chose to not display them on the screen, incase i accidentally map over them.

I think you've convinced me to give this a shot with my current controller just to see how I like it. It is an old M-Audio Axiom Air Mini 32 with 8 knobs (not encoders) - It wouldn't be so bad if I could just get soft takeover working somehow. Regardless I want to see if I can get this "paging" system working. Where do I go to make the edits described earlier in the thread - is that in an XML file somewhere? Any advice appreciated! Thanks again.
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by AngusY on Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:36 pm
niles wroteWhen daydreaming a little further, a quick way to show the currently focused parameters would be nice too. Something like this but better.
Image


That mockup looks awesome. Add a Midi command to toggle between showing/ hiding the current parameters and you would be set. Like you said, this would make soft takeover an even bigger deal for those of us with 8 knob controllers.
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by leonseaman on Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:05 am
AngusY wroteDoes this mean if you set up the Nektar P1 as a generic Midi controller, that you can't have S1 send the Parameter name & value to the device and have it displayed on the controller's screen?

Yeah, exactly that - but don't forget that swapping to generic MIDI is a single button press, you then return to the integrated view using the Mixer/Instrument buttons placed above the screen. It's very free flowing.

If you set these up as a general Midi controller, any idea if they would they still have soft takeover?

Just to be clear, i see the role of soft takeover is to eradicate/lessen parameter 'jumps', so comes in two flavours.

One flavour is where the DAW won't respond until the current value has been matched on the hardware controls that you turn. i.e. if parameter is 70, and you turn from 1 to 80, only 70-80 will be tracked in the DAW.

The other is when the DAW is sending the current parameter to your hardware and your hardware responds to that - meaning that the next rotary move is in fact relative to the value it knows, even when set to Absolute MIDI CC modes. i.e. parameter is 70, it sends 70 to your device and your devices next turn will be either 69 or 71.

So, using the second flavour (my preferred one), Most hardware offering endless encoders should support this when using absolute MIDI CC setups, as long as these two factors exist:-
1. S1 is setup to 'transmit' each mapped control back to the hardware. (Done via the xml maps or within the external setup interface).
2. Your hardware can receive the returning data and updates it's controls.

Point 2 is dependant on hardware, and I cannot recall if the Panorama's do this, but i will check. However controllers that have some form of display or LED lighting usually will respond to the returning MIDI data. This absolute send/receive method is great as it ensures that your controller shows the current values.

Conversely, if I used Nektar's integrated control, do you have any idea if S1's newly-discovered bank/paging system would still work? For example, when I change "pages" within S1, would the P1's screen update by displaying the parameters on the newly selected page?

Yeah if they added that to their scripts it would. Trouble with the Nektar device setup is that they've obfuscated the code (i.e. protected/scrambled it to make it hard to read/learn/edit). Obviously they're protecting their protocols.

Do you have any idea if these "pages" would be compatible with LED feedback, for example on the Midi Fighter Twister, X-Touch Mini or Kenton Killamix? In other words, when you switch to a different "page" within S1, would the position of the encoder LEDs update to reflect the parameters on the newly selected page?

Yup, exactly what i touched on previously, as long as your device can receive that data and display it, Studio One is totally equipped to send it. And this happens if you move a device on screen, load a new plugin, or change presets - all parameters update on your device (As long as they're set to 'absolute' mode).

I admit you kind of lost me here - I will need to do some reading on VST wrappers and what they are.

Well, basically a plugin will reveal all it's parameters by name and by value to the host. A controller then maps either to the DAW, and reads the parameters this way, OR the hardware talks directly to a plugin that hosts the plugins you wish to control.

Companies use a wrapper because it's universal across DAWs and they don't have to learn how each DAW functions in order to create deeper integrations. However, this means that the DAW only sees the wrapper and not the underlying plugins, and also your projects require the wrapper to be an active part of your install to load in future.

NI's approach is quite interesting as they use the plugin wrapper for instrument and effects 'deep' control, whereas the mixer and other transport/navigation functions is custom made for each DAW they support.

Nektar P series is totally running via the DAW and no wrappers required. Their T Series requires the use of the Nektarine wrapper for plugin/inserts control. It's quite hard to explain, but this is the quandry when displays are involved and parmeter names can be transmitted. :)

MIDI 2.0 is incoming now though, and it may be that these issues will be a thing of the past as so much more data can be transmitted via the new protocols. i.e. .xmls can be sent across devices meaning that not just parameter names or values can be sent to each device, but even how those parameters are laid out - providing parity between the plugin and controller without any form of third party layers.

With just a single a monitor I don't have a lot of real estate to give up, however I'm curious if I could set up some kind of command from my Midi Controller to make that window pop up & disappear on command.

Yup that's exactly what i do. I have nine 9 controls (buttons):-

1. External controller interface on/off (This is what you refer to)
2. Show/hide instrument (For getting focus to instrument on the track)
3. Show/hide inserts (For inserts)
4. Prev instrument or insert (Flicks through all the inserts on that track)
5. Next instrument or insert
6. Prev page of pageable parameters (As discussed)
7. Next page of pageable parameters
8. Prev preset (The Studio One presets, i.e. change patches in Impact etc.)
9. Next preset

I think you've convinced me to give this a shot with my current controller just to see how I like it. It is an old M-Audio Axiom Air Mini 32 with 8 knobs (not encoders) - It wouldn't be so bad if I could just get soft takeover working somehow. Regardless I want to see if I can get this "paging" system working.


Are you able to tell me what your current MIDI CC's are setup on the Axiom? (Including the buttons) I could create a user device that you load into your user devices so you can test it/learn from it if so. Important whether they're set to absolute or relative mode too.

I've been looking into the ability to skin your own external controller interfaces, in an attempt at reducing the current external control surface interface down so it fits on screen better, see here:-
Annotation 2020-07-24 120408.png

It's not small yet, but i'm getting the page controls to display and also the parameters names to be nice and clear (Last night i learnt how to word wrap them lol!).

I'll reduce the size down after that.

The skinning is really powerful, and the values on that interface (Rotaries and buttons) are in sync with my controller at all times. It's just tricky deciding on the best overall scheme for mapping things like EQ where you have gain, frequency, Q etc. You could have a page for one band, or a each page controls each bands freq/gain etc. (Which is what is showing right now).

Win10 Desktop - I7-4790/IGU/SSD (Main audio machine) | Win10 Laptop - i7-950H/GTX1660Ti/SSD | 12 Core 2012 Xeon Mac Pro | 2008 Mac Pro | 2012 Macbook Pro | 2015 iMac | Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 + ADATs | PreSonus Sphere | Waves | Arturia V Collection | Komplete Suite | Mackie MCU | Yamaha MOXF8 | Roland FA06, System-1, TD-1KV | Korg Microkorg | Komplete S61 Mk2 | Maschine Mk2 | Nektar P6
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by TheTwangmeister on Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:57 am
Well guess what, I bought a BCR2000 based on that very same Jonny Geib video. The reason I wanted one was because I had recently switched to Studio One from SONAR. SONAR was so much more advanced than Studio One in many respects, I suppose because they'd been at it for longer. I had been using for years a Mackie Control, 2 Extenders and a C4. i.e. 24 faders and a dedicated 32 knob plugin controller. The Mackie Control C4 was by far the best unit out there for this job. But guess what, Presonus didn't support the C4 and there was no way I could get it to work. In fact Studio One's Mackie Control support is very limited compared to in SONAR. The C4 not only has 32 rotaries but each rotary has it's own screen that shows you what parameter and value you are controlling.

Anyway, Presonus was never going to support it so I had to look elsewhere. When I saw Jonny's video showing how he was using the BCR2000 in Studio One I knew I had to get one. And yes, it is a budget low feature unit compared to the C4 but it does exactly what I want it to do. There's a guy who prints overlays for it. You send him your design and he prints it on quality material all with the cutouts perfectly positioned. So I designed one in my Photo editing software for the Pro EQ and here it is.

20200724_125102.jpg


And apologies, yes before you say anything, I know it needs dusting :)
So I have mapped all my plugins to it (well, the ones I use anyway). I would certainly never want to do EQ plugin control on my Faderport 16. Faders is totally wrong for this. You need your Gain, Freq and Q knobs laid out logically as in the picture, and in fact all my EQ plugins have those controls in the same places irrespective of how many bands they have.

Presonus Sphere
Studio One 5 Pro

Windows 10 Pro 64, Intel Quad Core i7 6700k, 16GB Ram
Apollo Firewire, Focusrite OctoPre
UAD octo dsp (Apollo quad and PCIe quad)
Faderport 16
Softube Console 1
Behringer BCR2000 (for plugin control)
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by leonseaman on Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:16 am
Cool, nice overlay you've got made there.

In my experience, This is by far the best way to map a BCR, using fixed assignments and have a template which has the plugins already instantiated on each track so you're good to go. I've done a few myself printed on card and i got a rotary knife to cut the holes.

Trouble is when you want a controller to be more dynamic and work across instruments and different effects, like you say, the C4 is perfect for this with it's display (Albeit the display character count is quite limited). Shame they're a bit of a rarity or else i'm sure something would've been made in S1,

PreSonus have really fallen with the new Atom SQ too, they've got a controller there WITH display and they've failed to put the parameters that you're controlling on the display (I asked on a live stream with their product manager), and what's worse, they've not even set it up with the page-able parameter options.

Now, if i can spend an hour and get paging running with a Komplete Kontrol, this should be something that works out the box and so easy for them to accomplish with the SQ. Can't believe they've failed to implement it.

Win10 Desktop - I7-4790/IGU/SSD (Main audio machine) | Win10 Laptop - i7-950H/GTX1660Ti/SSD | 12 Core 2012 Xeon Mac Pro | 2008 Mac Pro | 2012 Macbook Pro | 2015 iMac | Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 + ADATs | PreSonus Sphere | Waves | Arturia V Collection | Komplete Suite | Mackie MCU | Yamaha MOXF8 | Roland FA06, System-1, TD-1KV | Korg Microkorg | Komplete S61 Mk2 | Maschine Mk2 | Nektar P6
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by frank.crow on Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:51 am
darrenporter1 wroteConsole 1 in MIDI mode works great as a generic DAW controller as well. You do lose the native OSD plugin mode but you can control the standard C1 VST plugins with it still.

There are actually quite a few Console 1 users who use it this way instead of in the native mode.


I love the Console 1. In my current setup I have a Faderport 8 on the left pretty much exclusively for the Faders. I have the Faderport 2018 on the right for Transport, Menus, Macros and all of the Faderport goodies. In the center is the Console 1 for the actual track processing. With the SSL, Neve & API options I’m pretty much covered.

Console 1 is so perfectly integrated with Studio One that everything in my setup really compliments everything else.

Mac Mini (Late 2014)
Processor: 3.0 GHz Intel Core I7
Memory: 16 GB
Presonus. Studio One Pro V5
Presonus Quantum
Line 6. BassPOD XT Pro
Hardware DBX 160a
Hardware DBX 160XT
GA. Comp 2A
GA. Comp 3A
WA76 1176 (clone)
Softube. Console 1 MKII
Presonus. FaderPort & Faderport 8


"God's grace" :D
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by Funkybot on Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:01 am
@leonseaman, I can't for the life of me get parameter values transmitted to the MIDI Fighter Twister. Other than enabling "transmit" is there anything else that needs to happen for that to work? Do you have a MIDI Fighter Twister and have this working.

My expectation is:

1. I setup a MIDI CC with "Transmit" enabled
2. I map said CC to a plugin parameter
3. I focus the plugin GUI
4. The plugin parameter value is transmitted to the surface
5. I move the encoder on the device and it adds or subtracts to the current plugin value

Step #4 is just not working here.

AMD Ryzen 3950X, ASUS Creator x570 Mobo, 32GB HyperX Predator RAM (3600mhz), Radeon™ RX 5500 XT 4GB GDDR6 graphics card, RME Fireface 800, Windows 10 Pro, Studio One 5, Reaper 6, Cubase 10.5, Avid Artist Mix (EuCon please), Behringer X-Touch One, MIDI Fighter Twister, various other MIDI control surfaces and hardware instruments
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by leonseaman on Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:05 am
I don't own one, but the most important step is that your MIDI CC's are set as absolute and not relative values on the hardware. Otherwise the MIDI Fighter has no value to display, if that makes sense.

You'd also need to make sure that Studio One is setup for absolute values too.

With Studio One transmitting the absolute values, it will still operate as a 'relative' style controller as it knows the value you are moving from each time.

Win10 Desktop - I7-4790/IGU/SSD (Main audio machine) | Win10 Laptop - i7-950H/GTX1660Ti/SSD | 12 Core 2012 Xeon Mac Pro | 2008 Mac Pro | 2012 Macbook Pro | 2015 iMac | Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 + ADATs | PreSonus Sphere | Waves | Arturia V Collection | Komplete Suite | Mackie MCU | Yamaha MOXF8 | Roland FA06, System-1, TD-1KV | Korg Microkorg | Komplete S61 Mk2 | Maschine Mk2 | Nektar P6
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by Funkybot on Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:32 am
leonseaman wroteI don't own one, but the most important step is that your MIDI CC's are set as absolute and not relative values on the hardware. Otherwise the MIDI Fighter has no value to display, if that makes sense.


I do have the MIDI Fighter Twister setup for absolute values at the moment. I'm using the standard CC mode instead of the Encoder mode for the knobs. In that mode, it operates like a traditional Fader or Knob that transmits absolute values of 0-127.

leonseaman wroteYou'd also need to make sure that Studio One is setup for absolute values too.


How do I check this to make sure this piece is happening?

Thanks for your help so far.

AMD Ryzen 3950X, ASUS Creator x570 Mobo, 32GB HyperX Predator RAM (3600mhz), Radeon™ RX 5500 XT 4GB GDDR6 graphics card, RME Fireface 800, Windows 10 Pro, Studio One 5, Reaper 6, Cubase 10.5, Avid Artist Mix (EuCon please), Behringer X-Touch One, MIDI Fighter Twister, various other MIDI control surfaces and hardware instruments
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by leonseaman on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:05 pm
Funkybot wroteHow do I check this to make sure this piece is happening?

Ok, make sure that Studio One has the MIDI fighter port selected in the OUT selection in external devices of course, as it needs a destination to send to.

And, in your user devices folder there will be a .surface.xml file.

In there make sure that the controls are setup similar to this:-

Code: Select all
<Control name="xxx" title="xxx" options="receive transmit nofeedback public" type="knob">
  <MidiMessage status="xxx channel="xxx" address="xxx"/>
</Control>

Type='Knob' is absolute, Type='Relative' is relative of course. But as it's working for you already, i expect that you're already in absolute mode which is why i mentioned to ensure that an output port has been specified for that remote device (above) as being a possible cause?

The "receive transmit" options are crucial too, of course. 'Public' means that the control shows on the external devices ui. Not sure what 'nofeedback' means, i'm guessing it prevents a feedback loop occurring if you have receive and transmit enabled.

Win10 Desktop - I7-4790/IGU/SSD (Main audio machine) | Win10 Laptop - i7-950H/GTX1660Ti/SSD | 12 Core 2012 Xeon Mac Pro | 2008 Mac Pro | 2012 Macbook Pro | 2015 iMac | Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 + ADATs | PreSonus Sphere | Waves | Arturia V Collection | Komplete Suite | Mackie MCU | Yamaha MOXF8 | Roland FA06, System-1, TD-1KV | Korg Microkorg | Komplete S61 Mk2 | Maschine Mk2 | Nektar P6
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by Funkybot on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:28 pm
EDIT
This was just me being an idiot. The damn output port wasn't setup. Everything else was good. Thanks for making me double check!

AMD Ryzen 3950X, ASUS Creator x570 Mobo, 32GB HyperX Predator RAM (3600mhz), Radeon™ RX 5500 XT 4GB GDDR6 graphics card, RME Fireface 800, Windows 10 Pro, Studio One 5, Reaper 6, Cubase 10.5, Avid Artist Mix (EuCon please), Behringer X-Touch One, MIDI Fighter Twister, various other MIDI control surfaces and hardware instruments
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by leonseaman on Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:42 pm
Haha, it's all i could think of, glad you sorted it. :)

Win10 Desktop - I7-4790/IGU/SSD (Main audio machine) | Win10 Laptop - i7-950H/GTX1660Ti/SSD | 12 Core 2012 Xeon Mac Pro | 2008 Mac Pro | 2012 Macbook Pro | 2015 iMac | Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 + ADATs | PreSonus Sphere | Waves | Arturia V Collection | Komplete Suite | Mackie MCU | Yamaha MOXF8 | Roland FA06, System-1, TD-1KV | Korg Microkorg | Komplete S61 Mk2 | Maschine Mk2 | Nektar P6
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by Funkybot on Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:02 pm
leonseaman wroteHaha, it's all i could think of, glad you sorted it. :)


Thanks again!

Now here's a Feature Request that's so super specific to Control Surface nerds that I won't even create it in the official place, but I really wish Studio One's control surface XML's had tags that when combined with the Relative control type would allow users to define what value their surface transmits for increment/decrement.

Example (this is what the MIDI Fighter Twister's ENC 3F/41 Mode would look like):

<Increment = "41" >
<Decrement = "3f" >
<Max Increment = "51" >
<Max Decrement = "2f" >

That way, regardless of what type of surface you own that uses relative encoders, and regardless of what values it transmits, or whether it's velocity sensitive or not, you could configure the relative encoders in S1.

Because different surfaces use different values for relative encoders, this would be the way to make Studio One compatible with all of those devices.

AMD Ryzen 3950X, ASUS Creator x570 Mobo, 32GB HyperX Predator RAM (3600mhz), Radeon™ RX 5500 XT 4GB GDDR6 graphics card, RME Fireface 800, Windows 10 Pro, Studio One 5, Reaper 6, Cubase 10.5, Avid Artist Mix (EuCon please), Behringer X-Touch One, MIDI Fighter Twister, various other MIDI control surfaces and hardware instruments
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by leonseaman on Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:47 pm
It's possible that it's hidden in there somewhere but no-one knows how to do it, for example there's jog wheels that can be mapped, and not all wheels use the basic -1/+1 style of relative mappings.

And also additional options for relative controls:-
Code: Select all
<MidiMessage status="#B0" address="#0E" options="signed plain"/>


But, what else can go into those options!?

Tell you what is frustrating though, is that i went on a PreSonus live stream and asked a rep why no official documentation or guidelines exist for external devices, and he said "It's because we like to watch the community 'find' them". I was shocked, to say the least.

I'd love to have the time to compile it all and maybe create a basic app that shows all the options available and spits out a formatted .xml file, and custom skin for people to make life easier. The mappings can become extremely powerful as you can apply javascript modules to them too, so essentially most things should be achievable.... if only it was documented better.

I really don't like this game of hide and seek on a paid product, though. I'll be honest.

Win10 Desktop - I7-4790/IGU/SSD (Main audio machine) | Win10 Laptop - i7-950H/GTX1660Ti/SSD | 12 Core 2012 Xeon Mac Pro | 2008 Mac Pro | 2012 Macbook Pro | 2015 iMac | Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 + ADATs | PreSonus Sphere | Waves | Arturia V Collection | Komplete Suite | Mackie MCU | Yamaha MOXF8 | Roland FA06, System-1, TD-1KV | Korg Microkorg | Komplete S61 Mk2 | Maschine Mk2 | Nektar P6
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by niles on Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:10 pm
Funkybot wroteExample (this is what the MIDI Fighter Twister's ENC 3F/41 Mode would look like):
I don't have Twister, but when I check the manual it states:
Enc 3FH/41H
The encoder sends relative Control Change messages, a value of 65 is sent for each clock
wise step, and a value of 63 is sent for each anti-clockwise step.
Isn't that how relative controls work? Studio One is able to handle that. I̶f̶ ̶I̶ ̶r̶e̶c̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶c̶o̶r̶r̶e̶c̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶P̶u̶s̶h̶ ̶1̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶e̶n̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶b̶s̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶f̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶a̶t̶i̶v̶e̶ ̶(̶r̶e̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶d̶)̶ ̶m̶o̶d̶e̶.̶ Scratch that, the Push sends 0 and 127. But if a device sends out 0 and 65 or 63 and 65 should all work as relative.

When checking that Twister manual I even think I can get the "Super Knob" mode (14-bit resolution) working when I get my hands on it. ;)

OS: Windows 10 Pro | HW: P9X79 • i7 3930K • 16GB • 3x EVO 860 • NVIDIA GT1030 (@WQHD) • RME AIO

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