Just done some initial tests. It is not working well. The master machine in my case is a Win 7 machine and sending MTC via midi. (Studio One 4.6.2) Receiving machine is a Mac set for external MTC sync. (Studio One V5)
Both tempos, frame rates and sample rate need to be matched. It works well sometimes but if you start down the line, at times they do sync but then other times not tightly as per the video. Metronomes are not always tightly aligned. The master machine should be able to start anywhere at all and the slave should be tightly locked to it. I am wondering what will happen as well if the master session features a complex tempo map too. This needs some work.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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Ouch.
From what I see here these is an issue using Apple computers using V5 (and earlier). What about Windows 10 and V5 I wonder? When I eventually get V5 I should do my own tests. Can people write their specs in the signature? I would like to know if possible what Apple operating systems are being used and have a general idea of specs. Just curious.
Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
Dell Inspiron 7591 (2 in 1) 16Gb. Studio One Pro 6.x, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, also running it on Mac OS Catalina via dual boot (experimental). Presonus Quantum 2626, Presonus Studio 26c, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, Faderport Classic (1.45), Atom SQ, Atom Pad, Maschine Studio, Octapad SPD-30, Roland A300, a number of hardware synths. |
shanabit wroteMaybe my brain is gone but I think I remember you have to send MTC from the slave back to the Master to get frame accurate sync? Absolutely NOT! Only one connection direction needs to be made. If the Master is sending MTC, it cannot be put into external sync mode at the same time. Sometimes they don't start perfectly but sometimes they seem to lock up within a second or so. Other times I agree it could be better. They can stay slightly offset too and not be tight. When they do lock perfectly the metronomes are perfect. I would like to see every single start from anywhere be perfect though. Sample rate, frame rate and tempo I think need to be the same on both machines. Update: I can confirm this is a Studio One 5 issue. I am running a Win 7 machine with Studio One 4.6.2 sending MTC (master) to a Mac with Ableton Live 10 Suite. (slave) When I put Ableton into slave external sync and set it for MTC this all works perfectly. Lockup is perfect and super tight from anywhere on the timeline on the master machine every time.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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Jemusic wroteshanabit wroteMaybe my brain is gone but I think I remember you have to send MTC from the slave back to the Master to get frame accurate sync? Funny I have this sheet from MOTU that reads: If you need perfect time sync, you need to send the MMC Command to the slave machine and the slave machine needs to send the MTC to the MMC master machine. Who knows where I go this, probably tape machines LOL "Sample rate, frame rate and tempo I think need to be the same on both machines" This is def true. Jemusic, how are you syncing the two machines? Ethernet? Midi interfaces? Curious |
MMC is something different. The Master machine needs to be able to send it from what I can see. Although Studio One V5 has an MMC option in its reception, I cannot turn it on anywhere in the sending or Master machine. MTC carries transport signals as well remember so it is not essential.
I am using midi to connect the two machines together. As noted too above in Ableton this is all perfect though. Start anywhere, instant tight lock with both metronomes. And it is still only a one way connection. I am obviously doing it correctly.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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Jemusic wroteMMC is something different. The Master machine needs to be able to send it from what I can see. Although Studio One V5 has an MMC option in its reception, I cannot turn it on anywhere in the sending or Master machine. MTC carries transport signals as well remember so it is not essential. I know what MMC is bro, I go back to tape days. Im familiar with SMPTE as well and all that other old crap. So the metronomes lock but do the transports say the EXACT SMPTE position is what I was talking about earlier say when you stop the transport. Man I don't miss SMPTE offsets and all the sync crap. I wish Ableton had a simple free version to take a look at it, sounds fun. Carry on Im getting off topic here |
Yes with Ableton, both displays are identical. (Note though: when you stop however they may stop in slightly different places, not relevant. Reason being the two different DAW's like this may stop in slightly different places so don't use that as a means of comparison. Its what they are doing when they are locked that is important.)
But while running, Studio One and Ableton displays are identical. Well Ableton cannot actually display SMPTE timecode but the bars/beats displays are identical and also there is a minutes/seconds timeline at the bottom of the Ableton arrange view and it is also in perfect sync with the Studio One seconds display as well. The fact the metronomes sound so tight is reason enough to believe they are locked perfectly.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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I am trying to get s1v5 to slave to smpte
output from track 8 of my tascam deck The smpte plays from the tape and is converted to MTC output (PPS-2)then sent to S1V5 via midi . I have selected MTC external sync and activated MTC and MMC in S1v5 sync settings. Not working Is there an offset setting or any other requirement to make this work? Goal is to control s1v5 transport,etc from the tascam tape deck transport control. Thanks for any help |
I wouldn't have activated MMC, does that make any difference?
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When I did my tests back in my post I am pretty sure I tried MMC on and off. That is a momentary signal. What keeps things tight is the continuous clock signal and how it is read and locked to etc..Maybe I need to test it again and see.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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1. Make sure when you are STRIPING the Tascam Tape on track 8 that your signal is where it should be.
2. Make sure you set the PPS to MTC and READ as well when trying to read off the Tascam. 3. Make sure you are STRIPING about 20-30 secs longer than the song which allows the DAW time to SLAVE up to the MTC and it won't cut your SYNC off. 4. No need for MMC as the PPS is sending the SMPTE start to StudioOne via MTC. MMC is just for Start, Stop, RWD, FWD. It allows you to do that but the SMPTE/MTC is independent of that 5. How is the MTC midi signal from the JL Cooper getting into S1? What midi interface are you using? The midi out of the JL Cooper is going somewhere right? 6. Go to SONG/SONG SETUP/GENERAL and make SURE the FRAME RATE matches what you STRIPED on the TAPE, should be 30 FPS. As long as it MATCHES the JL Cooper STRIPE FPS RATE 7. Also, in the SONG/SONG SETUP/GENERAL you may need to set your BAR OFFSET to 2 or 4 to allow S1 time to SYNC **I just synced up here using the transport sending MTC to S1 using my MOTU Midipatchbay here and they are locking up |
Hello Shanabit,
I am glad to hear that you have accomplished sync to tape with your system.The process you laid out matches the instructions I have read. My recorded smpte is -10 to -15db per Ops spec in op manual.then into pps sync in. from there, pps converts and sends MTC. To nexus midi patch bay.( the patch bay then converts midi 5 pin to usb and then into S1v5). I only see midi (MTC?)activity when I route pps midi out to midi out(8) of the nexus midi patch(3x8 switcher). I will check out the settings and offset factors you described ASAP. I used fsk with ssp in the past had great success even with the wow and flutter aspect of the tape.I upgraded to s1v5 For the external sync mtc feature. Thanks for helping.get back with results |
Hi Shanabit,
Would you do team viewer? To get mine going that is.I set the FPS and also tried both 2 and 4 values. I may have a midi patch bay bay mixup.usually, a midi out goes to a midi in. My pps-2 only powers on and shows midi activity if I run pps-2 midi out to The midi out #8 of my midi patch bay switcher(jlcooper nexus 3x8) That seems counter intuitive, bottom line, it only shows signs of life when I connect it this Way. Yes Shanabit, I am using a pin to usb adapter from the nexus midi switcher to the computer. It all actually works for midi keyboard controllers and instruments. I also should mention I have an active Faderport 8 in place. Does the pps-2 need to list as a controller I s1v5 and have its own track? |
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