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by budworrell on Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:24 pm
Sorry for prior confusion. I just discovered
the pps power adapter had come unplugged.
Still not working though. I am gonna take
a pause, then start over fresh. Thanks for
all the information provided this far.
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by Jemusic on Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:19 pm
Back in July I did some tests using a Win 7 machine sending MTC (Studio One) and an iMac also with Studio One set to receive it. Sync was a bit hit and miss back then. When Ableton is the slave machine though sync is tight every time and no matter from where you are.

I will run the same tests again to check. As far as I am aware it is not fixed. I reported it as I am on the beta and they logged it in as needing to be done. But I have not seen anything on it yet though. It may have been silently fixed. I will check again shortly.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by shanabit on Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:15 am
budworrell wroteSorry for prior confusion. I just discovered
the pps power adapter had come unplugged.
Still not working though. I am gonna take
a pause, then start over fresh. Thanks for
all the information provided this far.



1. Your PPS MIDI OUT goes to one of the THREE MIDI Inputs on the Nexus, A, B, or C are the INPUTS. Whatever MIDI INPUT you are are using on the Nexus A,B, or C, the MIDI OUTPUT needs to match the INPUT Switch on the front of the Nexus. So if your MIDI OUT not he Nexus is on port 8 and you are coming into the Nexus on MIDI IN A you would go to PORT 8 on the FRONT of the Nexus and move the INPUT switch to A. Then INPUT A will be sending that midi input data to MIDI OUT 8 port.

For example,

PPS MIDI OUT goes to ANY of the THREE MIDI INPUTS on the Nexus, A ,B or C.
Whatever MIDI OUTPUT you are using on the NEXUS to go to the computer, THAT MIDI OUTPUT port needs to be switched on the FRONT f the NEXUS to whatever MIDI INPUT port you are using be it A,B, or C.

Say I have the PPS MIDI OUT connected to the MIDI C input on the Nexus.
Im using the MIDI OUT 7 on the NEXUS to go to the computer.
Go to the FRONT of the NEXUS and go to to the channel 7 switcher and switch that to C
Its that simple . The Nexus is just a thru box where you select which INPUT, A, B, or C is being INPUT to the Nexus for that MIDI OUT port which are numbered on the front.

2. In StudioOne, all you should have to do is select your USB MIDI input in the EXTERNAL SYNC box in the Transport/External Sync Options. Make SURE the Sync to EXTERNAL DEVICES box is checked.

3. A Start Time Offset MUST be set in the sequencer/StudioOne according to the PPS Manual. !!!!
That is done in Studio One in the Song/Song Setup/General TAB. You have SMPTE offset you can do there or BARS

4. If this still doesn't get it PM me and we will go from there bro.

StudioOnePro 6.1
UA Apollo Twin
OSX Sonoma 14.2

iMac 2013
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by budworrell on Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:40 pm
Not a snare or bass drum, mine
is a conundrum.
My tascam tape sends smpte (striped)
to the jlcooper pps-2 .the pps-2 converts
to MTC and outputs via 5pin midi to
midi in on my jlcooper nexus midi patch
bay.The mtc is output from the nexus
towards the s1s5.5 daw input( it is
converted to usb 2.0 along the way.
this all works ( tape machine transport on and
off activated and deactivates the light
indicating output from the patch bay to
the 5pin to the usb adaptor/converter that
goes to the daw in. No read at the computer
in on the daw.I have played with the settings
a lot.
So I tested the midi out on my 707 drum
machine thru the same path and it is
recognized by the daw midi in.
This is telling me that the daw is seeing in
from the drum machine but not the MTC
I read that in some cases MTC and
typical midi cannot coexist on the same
port. Also occurred to me that USB 3.0
may be required.
any ideas or info? I am all ears. Also,
it says ”idle” in the space adjacent to
select all midi2.0 in the sync Settings
( just below external sync on activation box)
User avatar
by budworrell on Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:47 pm
Any suggestions for the offset time value?
i have not set that , will do when i get
to my desk. Thanks for staying on this,
not exactly a common knowledge subject.
User avatar
by budworrell on Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:58 pm
Tascam 388 with track 8 dbx defeat on.
Smpte stripe recorded and playback
at -10 to -15 db.
MTC output apparent at nexus out
but not seen at s1v5 daw midi in.
Smpte offset , I tried 00:03:00:00 ( I think)
User avatar
by budworrell on Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:23 pm
budworrell wroteTascam 388 with track 8 dbx defeat on.
Smpte stripe recorded and playback
at -10 to -15 db.
MTC output apparent at nexus out
but not seen at s1v5 daw midi in.
Smpte offset , I tried 00:03:00:00 ( I think)
User avatar
by shanabit on Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:39 am
Its probably that DIN to USB cable you are using OR a setting in Windows.

Something is blocking it as I can confirm here it works

It shouldn't say IDLE in the midi box for your midi input selection port for sync. You should have a MIDI port selection for the USB driver you are using in Windows.

I just opened up Reaper and did the SAME thing here. It works fine syncing as well.

3 min offset is too much, you will have to wait that long for sync. Set it at 15 secs or so.

Thats all I have here

StudioOnePro 6.1
UA Apollo Twin
OSX Sonoma 14.2

iMac 2013
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by Jemusic on Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:49 pm
I have just run this test again. (Studio One as a master sending MTC via midi to a second machine slaving with either Studio One V5 or Ableton V11) )And everything is the same as it was before. With Studio One V5 being a slave MTC locked machine, its pretty close most times but not totally consistent. With the two metronomes panned L and R its easy to hear when they are perfectly in sync and when they are out even by a tiny amount. Studio One still varies from random starts from any position on the time line, only by a small time difference but its noticeable.

With Ableton as the slave machine and set to incoming MTC it is totally consistent. No matter where you start from the master machine, Ableton locks tightly and stays there. The two metronomes are always on top of each other in my setup anyway.

They do know about this they just have not got to it as yet.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by roland1 on Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:19 pm
Last year I had to abort the idea of using my (1992) O1W/fd organ sounds when I saw the jitter/drift on the incoming audio track. Great onboard analog sounds, but out of time just often enough to make the keyboard playing sound amateur — on a syncopated funk/rock song.

I used to run a 24 trk 2" facility that also ran cubase (and performer on an Atari) with outboard sound modules. Funny thing is, things seemed a lot tighter back then  — in 1993. :D

But in 2021, if you just populate your entire song with loops, then it doesn't matter anyway, right?

[DOH!]

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
User avatar
by budworrell on Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:20 pm
Thanks to the forum, esp Shanabit for the insightful direction and information. I bought a Roland UM midi 5 pin to USB adaptor, installed it and all works great with tape master / studio one v5.4 slave.

The inexpensive Chinese version does not allow sys ex communication that would enable MTC sync to tape. Ironically the Roland UM is also made in China, though it is a superior product. Roland, a name you can trust. Thanks again for the help.
User avatar
by shanabit on Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:37 pm
Yay!!!!!

StudioOnePro 6.1
UA Apollo Twin
OSX Sonoma 14.2

iMac 2013
User avatar
by Jemusic on Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:01 pm
budworrell wroteThanks to the forum, esp Shanabit for the insightful direction and information. I bought a Roland UM midi 5 pin to USB adaptor, installed it and all works great with tape master / studio one v5.4 slave.

The inexpensive Chinese version does not allow sys ex communication that would enable MTC sync to tape. Ironically the Roland UM is also made in China, though it is a superior product. Roland, a name you can trust. Thanks again for the help.


Except whenever you start up the MTC master, Studio One as a slave is still locking very slightly randomly timing wise in terms of the click. The errors are small and you may not hear it against the tape which will have its own errors also due to speed variations etc..Locking one DAW to another using MTC and Studio One as a slave still needs to be improved slightly. I noticed in my tests that the flamming between the metronome clicks can be significant in some start up cases. In others its perfect too. So that must still be happening with the tape also.

Before I got into using timecode for many years I ran a JLCooper box doing SPP instead. That was always very reliable.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by shanabit on Fri Dec 17, 2021 5:51 pm
@ Jemusic,

1. Im going to test this click flaming you are getting with S1 to see if I can reproduce it here, Im sure its there as you have reported it already. I would assume the audio buffer setting for BOTH DAWS is the same setting?

2. I can SLAVE S1 to Cubase/Reaper/Logic here. Which would ya like me to try? I can always download the Live DEMO as well to make it Master and slave S1 to it. The audio clicks on the two should not flam as you say. I do expect the clocks to be correct when syncing but off whilst the daws are static

3. The OP won't have this issue since he is just slaving to MTC form the JL Cooper via the SMPTE on the tape deck

4. I don't get how the MTC sync could be randomly off with S1 slaving? Weird

StudioOnePro 6.1
UA Apollo Twin
OSX Sonoma 14.2

iMac 2013
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by Jemusic on Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:01 pm
I don't think it matters which DAW you use as the master, because even here when I use Studio One as a master and Ableton as the slave I get no click flams from anywhere on the timeline start. They lock up and stay locked too. I think they all send MTC very well.

But when Studio One is the slave, its a little variable here. Many starts are good and stay locked too but then others are not so tight and they stay offset as well. Pan the two clicks as well L and R as the errors become much easier to hear when you do this.

I have a midi interface attached to both computers and just locked them via Midi. When I reported this as a beta tester, they saw it and gave it a bug number which means it is a situation and they will fix it. But as yet it is not as it must be down on the list and I can sort of understand it as not too many are doing this.

I will check again re audio buffers. But my main midi interface is connected to a USB port on card that is in a PCI slot. With this setup audio buffer settings seem to have no effect whatsoever on midi performance. They seem to run very independently.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
User avatar
by shanabit on Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:16 pm
I can confirm your findings here. When S1 is Master the clicks are pretty on here. When S1 is slaving there is a definite FLAM if you will with the clicks.

StudioOnePro 6.1
UA Apollo Twin
OSX Sonoma 14.2

iMac 2013
User avatar
by Jemusic on Fri Dec 17, 2021 6:39 pm
Thanks for confirming. And the flams are variable here too. Like some are tight but others are slight and sometimes they can be quite wide. eg 20-30mS etc..

Try slaving one of your other DAW's to MTC and see what you get. I only have Ableton here as a second DAW but it seems to lock up tight every time.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by mycbeats on Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:13 am
From a stop, the midi clock is off, usually your first note will be recorded back late. A little pre-roll fixes this or what I do is set a loop 1 bar longer than I want to record, set the playhead at the end of the event and record so it loops back to the start. this both gets me the tail of the synth and fixes the clocking.

I was even able to create a macro keyboard shortcut to automatically set this up for me based on the midi event length.

Attachments
Set Loop For Synths.studioonemacro
(741 Bytes) Downloaded 51 times

Toronto, Canada
Project engineer by day, sound connoisseur by night.

Main Rig: Windows 11 (21H2) 64-bit, Ryzen 3900x, 32GB RAM, RTX 2060, dual 4K Monitors
Presonus 192, Faderport v2, Atom SQ, Akai Advance 49, Keystation 61 mk3, 2x Behringer X-Touch Mini + way too many synths.

Mobile Rig: MBP M1/16GB, Atom SQ, IOstation
User avatar
by budworrell on Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:23 pm
Hi, I reported that I had synced my tascam
tape machine to s1 with studio one as the
slave. Yes, all transport functions are good
though I am having glitches in the sync
( slight studders in the flow) I tried
restriping the tape and different tape
playback levels.Before I troubleshoot the
tape machine itself, does anyone have
rock solid audio sync going using studio
one as the slave? I read about apparent
flywheel or flam problems,this is a skip,
studder glitch thing. I would have noticed
this sooner, been away from my desk.

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