jBranam wrote
if i am not mistaken... the old VU was basically a peak reference and you basically had to judge the average of the needle sway for RMS. so "0" on the old meters were what is referred these days to 0 dbfs (full scale) right?

You are a bit mistaken here. In fact VU's give a better and more accurate account of rms levels than peak. They are not a good indicator of peak at all. Also in the old days 0 dB VU referred to a voltage level. It was not the ceiling at all. There was always some headroom above 0 dB VU. (on a high quality mixer as much as 20 dB headroom above and from tape machines 12 to 15 db as well)

So no 0 db VU is not like 0 dB FS at all, certainly not from the converters. O dB FS should be thought of as the absolute maximum.

SwitchBack wroteOne of the most common questions from newcomers to this forum is: “Why is my mix so quiet”. Understanding the problem is the first step towards solving it. And the same technical knowledge needed to really understand the output mix problem can be used to get more from the input converters too. It’s a choice

The reason why peoples mixes are so quiet is because they are not mastering them properly. The solution is to record at healthy levels all the way through yes but not super loud either. Tracking and mixing are not the best times to be aiming for a loud mix. Your final mix may end up averaging -18 dB FS if you like. Keep your monitoring levels up while tracking and mixing. People monitor too quietly and then push levels during the mix to compensate. That is a mistake. If you don't have the option to monitor loud then you are not in the best position to be producing music.

(Please note: for great mixies you need to monitor at all levels, very quiet, medium and loud!)

Loud mixes come after the mixing process eg skilled mastering in getting them much louder. But these days at least we are now starting to realise that super loud mixes are also not the way to go. Common sense is starting to come back.

Jemusic wrote

SwitchBack wroteOne of the most common questions from newcomers to this forum is: “Why is my mix so quiet”. Understanding the problem is the first step towards solving it. And the same technical knowledge needed to really understand the output mix problem can be used to get more from the input converters too. It’s a choice

The reason why peoples mixes are so quiet is because they are not mastering them properly. The solution is to record at healthy levels all the way through yes but not super loud either. Tracking and mixing are not the best times to be aiming for a loud mix. Your final mix may end up averaging -18 dB FS if you like. Keep your monitoring levels up while tracking and mixing. People monitor too quietly and then push levels during the mix to compensate. That is a mistake. If you don't have the option to monitor loud then you are not in the best position to be producing music.

(Please note: for great mixies you need to monitor at all levels, very quiet, medium and loud!)

Loud mixes come after the mixing process eg skilled mastering in getting them much louder. But these days at least we are now starting to realise that super loud mixes are also not the way to go. Common sense is starting to come back.

* Sigh... *

i don't recall converters on old analog gear and as for 'peak' i know they were not a true indication of peak (most of what i wrote was referring to the past before this digital realm) VU meters were not a 'true' indication of anything imo lol