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Hi.

I'm working on a Video/Radio production and I have been recording at 44.1k. I also send a stereo signal in realtime to the video guys, so they record into the camera at 48k but it doesn't sound as good or been mastered by me in post production so the video doesn't end up sounding as good as the radio edit I make (many possible reasons to that issue). So what we want to do is for me to send them my radio master, without making any cuts (2-3 hours straight one stereo recording) and they can sync it to the video and they will have less to do to the audio since I already have it sounding right/good.

Of course the problem is, I recorded at 44.1 and sent them a file that was 44.1 and when they went to sync it with the video, there was quite a bit of drifting between the two and things just didn't match up, apparently quite a bit off/not fixable.

My question is, if I just do a digital release (in S1 project) and set it to 48k, then send them the up-sampled 48k file, will that fix the issue with the drifting? Or do I have to originally record at 48k? I'd rather keep my stuff in the future at 44.1 if I can. Or, worst case, does it not matter what I do there will always be drifting? (I don't really understand it all, I mean a second should be a second right?)

Any word to the wise on this subject would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

Steve

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2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by SwitchBack on Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:48 pm
My .2cts, YMMV,

Unless you find a way to sync the camera(s) to the audio system then stuff will drift, because clocks drift. For short takes and recordings at 48kHz it shouldn't be a big deal. Converting from 44.1 to 48kHz will add a extra 'drifty' element so recording at 48kHz has preference. But, no matter the sample rate, with 2-3 hour non-stop un-synchronised takes I would be highly surprised if you could mate audio and video without having to tweak timing.
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by sjc193 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:11 pm
I figured that would be the case. . .

I certainly don't know how to connect my RM32/Windows system clock to the Camera clock. There are like 5-6 cameras so I'm guessing they are all synced. I believe HMDI is used. Sounds like I will probably have to work on making sure they have perfect gain staging to the camera recording. I do a separate recording mix (stereo aux) at the same time as the live mix, so there is very little post production, just cutting everything up to 2 - 29 minute sections/making cuts where they go long. And doing some fader automation to bring up the interviews. But I do not remix the whole thing unless it's all gone horribly wrong (it hasn't this year now that I'm in audio director).

Check out the link below to see this years shows, it has both the video on youtube and the radio mix audio on sound cloud, I first noticed a difference in the Folkfaces show where I thought it sounded hot on the video but just right on the audio. Of course I had a little feedback issue with the condesors you'll hear but I have since fixed that issue. Also Bryan Bowers Band show is pretty awesome to see as well.

https://rollinghillsradio.org/season-9-2/

Thanks!

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by sjc193 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:21 pm
I mentioned the Bryan Bowers Band video from the site above. I just listened to it and I see that the video guys plugged the left and right xlr cable into their right and left inputs (backwards) so the stereo image is opposite of what we see in the video. Exactly the type of issues I'm trying to solve by sending them a finished mastered file as opposed to realtime analog audio. LOL hey, they're video guys right? But if you listen to the soundcloud that I made it is correct.

LOL, :evil: Uhggg

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by SwitchBack on Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:42 pm
Nice one! :)

I know diddly-squat about video editing but having multiple cameras could be a good thing. Cutting from camera to the next offers tweaking opportunities, right? Maybe the video editors have some clever audio 'tempo mapping' tool at their disposal for making audio line up with video from cut to cut.
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by sjc193 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:57 pm
SwitchBack wroteNice one! :)

I know diddly-squat about video editing but having multiple cameras could be a good thing. Cutting from camera to the next offers tweaking opportunities, right? Maybe the video editors have some clever audio 'tempo mapping' tool at their disposal for making audio line up with video from cut to cut.


Yes, they can certainly deal with a little bit of "drifting" by cutting from camera to camera. They actually have a lot more editing to do than I do in that respect. . . I get mine done in 2-3 hours, takes them weeks. . . but I guess when I sent them the 44.1 file it was just way off. I just sent him an upsample to 48 today, we'll see what he says. If no good then I'll start recording in 48k and see if that helps. I don't actually know what video software they use, I've never done video editing myself either.

Thanks,

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by SwitchBack on Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:09 pm
Did a quick web search and hey presto! Just one hit but apparently there's software out there to automate the sync'ing :)
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by roblof on Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:37 pm
We used to timestretch the audio to line up with the camera reference track.

FCP had a nasty bug working in PAL so we always had to timestretch as soon as we needed to export/import audio :-(

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by Tacman7 on Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:57 pm
Why not just work in 48k?

Would that solve the problem?

I switched some years ago for different reasons.

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by Jemusic on Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:23 pm
Many video editing programs (I know that Adobe Premier does this) upsamples on the way in so even if you give it to them at 44.1K Premier will change it as it is being imported.

To be sure though all you have to do is either run the whole session at 48K or simply export your 44.1K session at 48K. It should be the same either way.

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by sjc193 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:15 am
So I sent the 48k upsampled file to the video guy yesterday. And he sent me a one sentence email that says:

"UHHHHHHHH DDDDUUUUUUUUUUDDDDEEEEE........... so good.... Episode's going out today...."


I think that means it worked? I guess? LOL (Video guys and drummers must be of the same breed)


Anyways, thanks for the helpful suggestions from all. I would like to start recording in 48k maybe, it uses more hard drive space I believe, but maybe not that big a difference. The big thing is that I record onto my rack mount computer, but then I copy the capture session files off from that and put it on a laptop. I don't believe I can start any sessions on my laptop at anything but 44.1 because I have no interface, I just use the windows audio interface which lets me use the headphone jack to hear the audio. So the next question is. . . if I record in 48, will my laptop S1 just downsample it to 44.1 anyways as soon as I do an import into a new song? I believe the answer is yes. . .

Thanks!

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by sjc193 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:52 am
I did get confirmation that the 48k file fell right into place with the video.

He said "No drifting. It worked perfectly."

I told him to take care as there could still be some slight drifting so he should look really closely at it, especially towards the end. It is about a 2-1/2 hour recording. . .

But I'm pretty happy about the results, I now have full control over the audio! YAY!

Steve

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by darrenporter1 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:35 am
Hard drives are ridiculously cheap nowadays... even external ones for archiving. Don't worry about recording in 48k.


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by matthewgorman on Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:38 am
if I record in 48, will my laptop S1 just downsample it to 44.1 anyways as soon as I do an import into a new song? I believe the answer is yes. . .


Yes

I don't believe I can start any sessions on my laptop at anything but 44.1 because I have no interface, I just use the windows audio interface which lets me use the headphone jack to hear the audio.


2 options here, first one being a facepalm. Pick up a small interface like the Audiobox for the laptop. Used market is pretty cheap.

Second would be to use ASIO4ALL on the laptop to work in 48.0 natively. ASIO4ALL isn't a supported application, but for something this simple I doubt you would need tech assistance.

Matt

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by sjc193 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:18 pm
matthewgorman wroteSecond would be to use ASIO4ALL on the laptop to work in 48.0 natively. ASIO4ALL isn't a supported application, but for something this simple I doubt you would need tech assistance.


Interesting. . .

StudioLive RM32AI
Rackmount Windows 8.1 PC Quad core 8G ram
ASUS RT-N66U Dual Band Router
IPad2, IPad Air 2, Studio One 3 Pro, 1 DBX Driverack 260
2 QSC KW 153's, 2 Turbosound TMS-1's
2 OHM MR450D Subs with Kilomax 18inch drivers
4 EV ZLX-12P's, 1 TurboSound iX15, 2 Yamaha S115V's
1 Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 (7500 watts) amp, 2 Behringer EP4000 amps
10 58/57 mics, 1 SM86, 1 sE8, 1 sE2200, 1 AT2020, 2 AT2021
1 beta52 kick mic, 2 e609, 2 Radial J48 DI's, 1 PRO48 DI
2 4Bar lights, 1 4Play, 1 6Spot, 1 fog machine
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by SwitchBack on Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:28 pm
Worth a try: check your computer's hardware if 44.1 really is the only option. I haven't seen many of those, so... ;)
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by matthewgorman on Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:21 pm
sjc193 wrote
matthewgorman wroteSecond would be to use ASIO4ALL on the laptop to work in 48.0 natively. ASIO4ALL isn't a supported application, but for something this simple I doubt you would need tech assistance.


Interesting. . .


And free. No harm to try it out, and if you uninstall it, it won't leave a lot of problems behind.

Matt

Lenovo ThinkServer TS140 Win 10 64bit, 8GB RAM, Intel Xeon
Lenovo Thinkpad E520, Windows 7 64bit, 8 GB RAM, Intel i5 Processor

S1Pro V5

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