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I have been trying to quantise MIDI to real drums using the groove quantise feature. I have the drum transients detected, I drag the drum audio to the quantise bar to generate the groove template. When I apply this template to my MIDI, the first part of the song seems fine. In the middle of the song (the mid 8 in my screen grabs), the MIDI is all shifted forward and all stacked in one place. Both the drum audio and the MIDI start and end at the same place and last for the entire song.

Pre Quantise.jpeg

Post Quantise.jpeg


Has anyone had this happen before? I've submitted a support ticket as I can't see how this can be the desired behaviour.

I'm using both Studio One Professional 3 and 4, and it happens in both versions.

I'm on Mac.

Thank you!
Last edited by makemyfaderportwork on Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by roland1 on Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:20 pm
Are you doing this in sections of 4 to 8 bars, or all at once ie. 120 bars of groove?

If it's the latter...don't.

Groove quantize is for working on parts of a song, not for affecting the entire song all at once. I know some people have tried that and it didn't work. No surprise.

If you are using it properly - perhaps doing 2 to 10 bars at a time - then it could be a bug. But it's working fine for me in v3, so I'm leaning toward user error.

Also, you have to watch the divisions: are you using a 1/8th note grid underneath a 1/16 note groove? That can also cause shifting. And don't quantize fills - or use only a percentage to get it near to perfect. You don't want to make it all sound too machine-like.

Takes a while to learn the intricacies of this function. Hope you work it out.

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by makemyfaderportwork on Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:04 pm
Thanks for the clarification.

That’s a real shame if Studio One doesn’t support locking MIDI parts to a full length drum part. It’s easily doable in Pro Tools and Logic and I assumed it functioned the same way in Studio One. It seems an obvious feature for Presonus to implement, hopefully it will be implemented/fixed eventually.

Unless there’s another way of doing it or a workaround? I tend to work with live recordings augmented by MIDI instruments, and the drummer pulls things around in just the right way, so any programmed parts locked to the grid will sound wrong.
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by Bbd on Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:50 pm
You may want to learn about tempo mapping. There are many good videos on this in our Learning area.
As a drummer, I have often successfully recorded without a metronome and then applied tempo mapping with Studio One and more recently with Melodyne 4.
Once it is mapped, I can quantize other instruments to my playing.

Bbd

OS: Win 10 x64 Home, Studio One Pro 6.x, Notion 6, Series III 24, Studio 192, Haswell CPU: i7 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM: 32GB, Faderport 8/16, Central Station +, PreSonus Sceptre S6, Eris 3.5, Temblor 10, ATOM, ATOM SQ
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by roland1 on Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:32 pm
My point is that you can still do what you want, just in smaller increments. Try cutting the drum track into 16 bar long events and then apply them to the same 16 bar area of the MIDI track. That'll work. And when you run into a problem, make them smaller still, like 4 bars or 2 bars. It should work fine.

Is the drum track in time with a tempo, or all over the place? In which case, I'd recommend what Bbd said by tempo mapping everything. Then you can make those cuts and apply them, even if they don't align with a regular grid. It will be a relative grid or even an adaptive grid.

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by makemyfaderportwork on Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:57 pm
Cool, thank you both.

The drums are in time with the click, just ever so slightly off the grid (in the right way). So I’ll probably give the chopping it into smaller segments approach a go.

The groove template quantisation within Studio One is so similar to in Pro Tools, right down to the terminology, the workflow, the ability to save groove templates etc, that I assumed it would work over the length of an entire song as it does in Tools. It’d certainly be much quicker to do it in one hit than have to do every track in chunks, but it’s great to know that it’s at least possible.

Thanks again!
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by roland1 on Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:05 pm
If those sections of the live drum track are grouped vertically (snare, kick, hh, etc.), you could also groove quantize them together, I imagine, if you ever needed to. But you're working with a stereo source track, from what I understand. Just sayin' — there's some creative flexibility here.

Also, use the % settings for the "start" of the note to affect how tight to the groove grid you want to get with any one piece. The "end" refers to note length and doesn't matter for drums.

Good luck. :)

makemyfaderportwork wroteCool, thank you both.

The drums are in time with the click, just ever so slightly off the grid (in the right way). So I’ll probably give the chopping it into smaller segments approach a go.

The groove template quantisation within Studio One is so similar to in Pro Tools, right down to the terminology, the workflow, the ability to save groove templates etc, that I assumed it would work over the length of an entire song as it does in Tools. It’d certainly be much quicker to do it in one hit than have to do every track in chunks, but it’s great to know that it’s at least possible.

Thanks again!

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)
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by roland1 on Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:03 pm
For the OP—who could be using another DAW by now; how would we know, he never wrote back—here are some other things to consider:

1) When you quantize something and it stacks all the notes one on top of the other, it means that your grid size for the groove is too large or that the "range" is set too high. For instance, if you set it to 100% then it will grab notes that are further away from your primary note and then quantize it to that groove setting. Hence, stacking of notes. If you adjust it to 12%, you will get less or no stacking.

2) Sometimes, if you have a groove that does not begin at the first bar, it can confuse the groove editor. In such cases, you add a dummy note on the first beat so that it can reorient itself to where the groove starts.

3) When editing "MIDI" tracks, you may have to chop up the parts into smaller sections so that you are giving the groove editor a fixed length file to work on. There seems to be an issue with this that may be by design or just something that didn't get worked out in detail.

4) If you look at the actual code in saved groove files, you'll see that they have a set length and everything is mapped out carefully. However, there is no guarantee that the settings will be recalled accurately in the start, velocity and range indicators. So pay attention that you're getting the settings you want. You can, for instance, set the start to be at 50% of the groove you set, thereby leaving it a little looser, especially if you're trying to play tight to the grid instead of to a groove.

5) Hey, I'm not getting paid for this. What the...? I've been tricked into helping someone. This is terrible. What was I thinking? :rtfm: (oh yeah, that's right—the manual sucks!)

Studio One Pro (v5) on i7 7700 win10 PC w16GB RAM and a Mac Pro Tower (w/RME & Focusrite interfaces.)

I use S1 as an author/musician/multi-media artist.
My work includes the newly released: Clearing a Path to Joy (And finding contentment along the way) [AuroraSkyPublishing.com]
and my upcoming music video, Too Big To Fail, which introduces Citizen Based Social Planning — "the next step in the evolution of democracy." You know...typical everyday stuff. :)

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