stevenicel wrotesanteripilli wroteGuys,
Great post, Steve. Bugs like these can be tremendously frustrating. A killer of inspiration and flow.
I have decided not to upgrade from v.3 to v.4 until PreSonus brings to the table something that I actually need, and also works the way I want it to (the latter being the reason I chose S1 in the first place). (For me) it feels weird to pay for something just to do it. And I don't want to send the company a message of "take my money" if it doesn't provide the value (for me).
I believe you buy a product like this for what it is and not what it might become. This goes for upgrades too. It might solve all my issues during the v.4 cycle, but there's no way of knowing that. Especially with a company that doesn't publicy share any future plans. You get what you get when you get it, if you get it. So all I can do is vote in the FR area and with my money.
Reading your post, I came to realize a issue with my way of thinking. Not only am I happy to pay for features that I actually need, I am also happy to pay for bug fixing. If all bugs were fixed in a new update, I'd take it. This is because bugs can be exhausting (f i. missing takes from loop recording while improvising melody and lyrics) and I just want to move on. But this way of thinking is of course ethically flawed, cause bug fixing really should be free of charge for product owners. I'd buy it. Guess it goes to show that I've given up on being a thoroughly responsible customer.
Create a track for each Bus you want to print, set that Bus as the input of that track, press M + R + U then press Record. Done. Problem solved. Hair saved. (set the appropriate bit depth in your song’s settings)
Things sometimes are simple!
Skaperverket wrotestevenicel wrote
Good thoughts here Skaperverket. All of what you noted is well observed. And good for you for not just accepting and swallowing the capitalist mantra.
Skaperverket wroteI believe you buy a product like this for what it is and not what it might become. This goes for upgrades too.
Absolutely, it's imperative otherwise we're just paying for someone else' dream and indulgence! And there's enough of that crap on Facebook and Instagram to sink the planet thanks.
Skaperverket wroteIt might solve all my issues during the v.4 cycle, but there's no way of knowing that. Especially with a company that doesn't publicly share any future plans. You get what you get when you get it, if you get it. So all I can do is vote in the FR area and with my money.
Very true, and I'm sure it'll come as no surprise that I am growing tired of the almost non-existent presence of core Presonus stakeholders contributing to candid discussions anywhere in the public eye. They do not share ANYTHING about future development plans or system/DAW road mapping.
There is virtually never any official response to anything! And don't get me started on the effieciency of the FR system.
I believe all of my support queries has either ended in a functionality flaw workaround, or a misunderstood and unrelated suggestion which then leads back to the former.
I can't help but wonder if tech support feel it's easier to offer a cluster of unrelated suggestions, rather than really try to understand the issue being presented in an articulate way. Most times i've just stopped following up and politely closed the interaction.
Skaperverket wroteReading your post, I came to realize a issue with my way of thinking. Not only am I happy to pay for features that I actually need, I am also happy to pay for bug fixing. If all bugs were fixed in a new update, I'd take it. This is because bugs can be exhausting (f i. missing takes from loop recording while improvising melody and lyrics) and I just want to move on.
Spot on and I hear you on that, and in a fluffy world I could also relent and justify this way of thinking. But as you note below, this simply perpetuates the issue. Everybody of course just wants to move on and get to the next thing. There's always the next thing.
We; to the next recording, to the next mix so we can then get onto the next 25 processes needed to produce and finish a song. The company; to their next piece of the profit puzzle and bigger fish to catch...
Skaperverket wroteBut this way of thinking is of course ethically flawed, cause bug fixing really should be free of charge for product owners. I'd buy it. Guess it goes to show that I've given up on being a thoroughly responsible customer.
Cha-ching! And this is, in essence, what the current culture machine is happy to have encouraged and wants to happen. It's hard sticking to ethics when we know it'll cost further time as well. But conviction maketh the person. So we end up spending more time dealing with the workarounds, then further time if we want to have a conscience. But really we're all spending that time trying to find answers in the forums anyway!
It's akin to modern politics that constantly create internal system drama to distract the population from being able to focus on any REAL issues. If we stick our head in the sand. We then become THE problem. But of course as you rightly observed, it takes a committed person to choose being part of a solution instead. And the solution here for example, IS NOT as simple as being a super helpful contributor on the forums. It makes people feel good that they're being helpful, yes. But just because intentions are good, doesn't mean it's helping the core issue.
For context, look what Avid did. They managed to mould and leverage their early die hard Pro Tools Digi based community so craftily after the buyout, that you weren't even allowed to vocalise the company should be expected to fix issues themselves. Any questioning was meet with "oh poor Avid are struggling, cut them some slack as their millions are diminishing". poop man, I suspect their millions were diminishing because the parent body was using it for bigger fish to fry! That's not struggling, that's pure evasive business choice. I mean companies are always struggling according to the balance sheet. Certainly doesn't stop COO's and CEO's from allocating their 5M payroll bonus though does it.
So the users who were so dedicated to ensuring that PT continued to exist, would hand deliver many issues and solutions to their very door. Great for them. Then they proceed to only pick whatever issues their parent company allow them to spend money on fixing.
The culture has become so entrenched in placing bug fixing as the responsibility of the user, that we are made to feel guilty if we don't invest weeks and months of our own time finding solutions. Again, it's utter rubbish. If you produce a product for which you make money, you alone are responsible to deliver said product in it's entirety. Not half, not 75%, not 98% but 100% of that remunerated product.
Once you step into the professional product delivery arena, you can't assume the luxury of thinking as a hobbyist.
I have a feeling that because outsourced coding to developing countries has become so affordable and commonplace, it's easy for companies to be completely "wined and dined" by the fantasy that anything is possible in software development. They become complacent and begin focusing only on how much income potential there is in the profit pond. Code planning starts taking a massive backseat to GUI bedazzling. You know, the bling-bling.
Coders are also being strung out and therefor are spending less and less time focusing on code fallback and redundancies. So these companies continue developing with even less educated understanding that back-end development issues can catapult you into massive debt very quickly due to short sighted code planning and strategic development.
When bugs arise, as they certainly will, it's already too late to turn the ship around because the code ground work was not rock solid to begin with.
I suspect you only need to look as far as someone like RME to see a good example of solid, well founded coding development practice. They can obviously code from a holistic in-house functionality viewpoint. Not a widget based one, where each developer is working on chunks of code that has no idea of how well each node is going to react or function with the other, as more complex variables are introduced. As happens I'm guessing a ten thousand fold on the windows platform.
I know Presonus just want develop a solid DAW ecosystem that rules the platform. That's cool and great. I'd like to keep using what they make. However what I need in return is a completely bulletproof ecosystem to do our work without dodging bullets constantly. That's how trade is mean't to work; I pay you money for my professional product needs, you give me the entire product I paid to get my work done efficiently.
Right, again too much time spent. I must to learn to refrain.
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PC: Intel Core i7-6800K CPU @3.40GHz, 6 Core(s) | 32GB RAM | NVIDIA NVS300 512MB | Win 7 Pro, 64 Bit | SSD Internal | 2x SATA Audio/Sample Drives | Firewire PCI card | Thunderbolt | Digi003 Rack. Komplete Kontrol V1.8. NI S49 Controller. BCF2000. Studio One 3.5.1. Pro tools 12.8.1
All that can be said with regard to the reported problem appears to have been said.
I'm locking this before it gets out of hand.