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Is this possible?

Let's say I've recorded a guitar part DI. Cool. Now I want to send that same audio file out through my interface, into a guitar amp with pedals and such--twist the knobs, the whole bit--and have the mic on the amp go back into my interface and record into Studio One. Is this possible without causing some crazy feedback loop?

My friend did this on one of his little Apollo interfaces that had a dedicated aux send and return, but I don't see how this is possible with 18i20 without some sort of routing wizardry going on.

Any ideas? Thank you.

Windows 10 64-bit, 16GB RAM, AMD Ryzen R7 1700 3GHz, Radeon RX 480, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Gen 2, Studio One 4 Pro
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by Tacman7 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:31 am
I've did that. As long as you have an extra output you should be fine. All about setting proper levels

I haven't did that in a long time, I get better results staying in the box.

I have an Eleven Rack. It puts out processed audio like a regular guitar processor but it also sends a clean dry mono that I record to add sims to. Between the two I usually find what I need. I can send that dry signal back to the rack to be processed as well.

More options than my brain can handle.

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by codyhazelle on Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:33 am
Well I've got a bunch of extra outputs but how do I route them to treat them like aux sends and returns? Is this something I do in Studio One? Or in the Scarlett Mixcontrol? Or what? I've no clue.

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by darrenporter1 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:26 pm
To do it correctly there is more to it than just making sure your levels are ok. You really need a reamping box so your pedalboard and/or amp see the correct loads that they would expect seeing from a guitar.

Something like these...
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProRMP
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DualRDB

There are more expensive ones too if you are into paying more than you have to... lol.

FWIW, I use the ART device and it works great. I also have other Radial products and they are fantastic too so you can't go wrong with either one.

Then you need to make sure your interface outputs are assigned as outputs in Studio One. Finally, you just send your dry DI guitar track to that output. From that output on the interface, you go into the reamp box.

There are a few videos on reamping with Studio One on YouTube.


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by Tacman7 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:01 pm
All a matter of opinion. Try it with and without the box.

A signal is a signal.

You route a track to an output. You plug a guitar cable into that output and plug it in the amp.

You put a mic on it and plug that into your interface and record the sound.

If you don't like the results you can buy some more gear like a reamp box.

It's something you can try right now. There's a lot of hub bub about the right impedance etc. but I think that's better addressed when you make the recording.

If it does what you want then you're good.

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by darrenporter1 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:40 pm
Tacman7 wroteAll a matter of opinion... signal is a signal.


No that's not true. It's not "hub bub" at all... it's actually the laws of physics.

Guitar amps and pedals are designed expecting to see a particular "impedance load" that is typical output from a guitar pickup. I could go into all of the electronics mumbo-jumbo behind all that but it is beyond the scope of this forum so I'll leave it in that simple statement.

Additionally, a reamp box will be "transformer isolated" which is needed in most situations to avoid those nasty-sounding ground loops.

I design and build my own tube amps, by the way, so this is not just an "I read it somewhere before so it must be true opinion."


PS... if you have any basic soldering skills at all you can get an excellent reamp box in kit-form for only $50 here...
https://www.diyrecordingequipment.com/products/l2a


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by Tacman7 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:05 pm
It's just that I was doing it before they had any reamp boxes and it sounded good to me.

Nod is as good as a wink and all.

Whatever works for ya.

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by darrenporter1 on Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:57 pm
I agree 100% that you do what works for you but you should really give it a try. If you do a lot of reamping without one, or even some, $80 is a VERY inexpensive upgrade to your sound! Lots of bang-for-the-buck there.

The concept of a reamping box is pretty much the same as it is for a DI box... match the source load with the load expected at the target for best results. If you wanted to run a bass or an acoustic guitar direct into your console you wouldn't think twice before reaching for a good DI box instead of that hacked cable.

A quality DI and reamp box are both within arms reach of my recording chair!


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by Jemusic on Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:30 am
One of the main concerns you will have feeding the output of an audio interface directly into a guitar amp will be a serious level mismatch. Some interfaces can output + 4 dBu at the ref level where as many guitar amps are sensitive and might only be expecting signals as low as -20 or even lower.

(using a passive DI in reverse while offering a good impedance match can actually step the signal up from the interface due to the transformer windings not being the same. e.g. one is 600 ohms and the other is several hundred K ohms usually)

So a good re-amp box is going to provide that level shift downwards. An adjustable output level is also a good thing allowing you to fine-tune the level going into the guitar amp. Input stages of the guitar amp can then be set for more normal operation.

Isolation and ground lift options will also prevent the guitar amp from getting an earth loop type hum which can also be a problem.

Some re-amp boxes go a little further and simulate the equivalent circuit of a guitar as well. And provide some tonal options like low and high end cut filters etc.

But overall re-amp boxes are a good thing and will ensure the best possible result from doing this.

To the OP as long as the signal coming in from the microphone is not input monitor enabled in Studio One and feeding the same output that is being sent to the amp you won't have any feedback issues.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by codyhazelle on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:24 pm
Interesting thoughts here, guys. I, too, have done reamping without a box in the past and as Tacman said it seemed to work just fine--my friends and I liked the results. If the point of the box is to match I/O levels couldn't I just turn the volume of the file itself up or down depending on what I need? I understand there's probably a lot more at play here then I can fathom as electronics are certainly not my field of study.

So as to avoid feedback issues, this should work, right?

Send audio file out of output 3. Output 3 1/4in into amp. SM57 on the amp into input 1. Arm input 1 to record and I'm good to go? No weird feedback or any such thing?

Windows 10 64-bit, 16GB RAM, AMD Ryzen R7 1700 3GHz, Radeon RX 480, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Gen 2, Studio One 4 Pro
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by darrenporter1 on Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:37 pm
That's how it's done but don't be a cheapskate... spend the less than $100 and do it right.


Studio One Professional 5.whatever, Harrison MixBus 32c v.6
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by Jemusic on Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:05 pm
You could just turn down the signal level from the DAW but there is another issue going on. The output impedance of the audio interface output is very low. Might only be 100 ohms or so. So now you are loading down the input stages of the guitar amp with a very low impedance. Which could effect how the input stages to the guitar amp might sound.

A guitar on the other hand (Passive) will have a much higher output impedance. e.g. might be 10K - 50K ohms now and that is going to effect the input stages of the amp in a different way.

A re-amp box not only drops the signal does but creates a high output impedance like the guitar itself. In the example that Darren suggests the output impedance is 15K ohms which is high compared to the output impedance of your audio interface.

Best to either make or invest in a re-amp box. It sorts out several issues all at once.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro
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by codyhazelle on Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:23 pm
Okay guys I didn't quite get it. I went into my I/O setup and added a new mono output, Line 3, which it named Sub 1. I sent my guitar track's output to Sub1 but for some reason the output still was playing all of the tracks. Am I setting up my I/O improperly? Is there a video or tutorial somewhere that shows me how to do this?

Windows 10 64-bit, 16GB RAM, AMD Ryzen R7 1700 3GHz, Radeon RX 480, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Gen 2, Studio One 4 Pro
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by darrenporter1 on Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:33 pm
There are several S1 specific videos on YouTube pertaining to reamping.


Studio One Professional 5.whatever, Harrison MixBus 32c v.6
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FaderPort 8, Softube Console 1, JBL 306P Mk.II Monitors
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by PreAl on Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:06 pm
darrenporter1 wroteTo do it correctly there is more to it than just making sure your levels are ok. You really need a reamping box so your pedalboard and/or amp see the correct loads that they would expect seeing from a guitar.

Something like these...
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProRMP
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DualRDB

There are more expensive ones too if you are into paying more than you have to... lol.

FWIW, I use the ART device and it works great. I also have other Radial products and they are fantastic too so you can't go wrong with either one.

Then you need to make sure your interface outputs are assigned as outputs in Studio One. Finally, you just send your dry DI guitar track to that output. From that output on the interface, you go into the reamp box.

There are a few videos on reamping with Studio One on YouTube.


Is that Art a good DI box?

Heres an odd question.. Have you tried putting say an active bass through it as a DI box?

Thinking of a purchase.

Cheers and thx.

Intel i9 9900K (Gigabyte Z390 DESIGNARE motherboard), 32GB RAM, EVGA Geforce 1070 (Nvidia drivers).
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by codyhazelle on Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:15 pm
darrenporter1 wroteThere are several S1 specific videos on YouTube pertaining to reamping.

I've watched a few and none were helpful--hence why I came here in the first place.

One video the guy doesn't even talk about routing the signal.

Another video the guy does some things like switching the headphones to outputs 3+4 (which I don't know how to do on mine? nor do I think it should even be necessary?) but otherwise I followed him to a tee and nothing happened. Let me reiterate:

I added a mono output in my I/O settings. This output is Line 3 on my Scarlett. It is named Sub1 in Studio One. I told my DI guitar track to go out to Sub 1. I turned on the outputs on the left side of the mixer. I took a 1/4'' cable from Line 3 aka Sub 1 to a guitar pedal, and then another from that pedal into input 2 in my focusrite. I armed a new track to record from input 2 and it gets no signal at all.

Now, this could be because I don't have a reamp box, but other strange things are happening. I went straight from the guitar pedal into the amp with that guitar track solo'd and also got no sound at all. Yet, when I unsolo'd that guitar track the whole master mix (i.e. the mix that is going out of my main i.e. outs 1+2) could actually be heard coming out of the amp if I turned the volume up about halfway.

So what the hell is going on here? I think whatever I have to do is on the Scarlett Mixcontrol software's end, but I have no clue what needs to be done.

Windows 10 64-bit, 16GB RAM, AMD Ryzen R7 1700 3GHz, Radeon RX 480, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Gen 2, Studio One 4 Pro
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by codyhazelle on Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:00 am
Let this be a lesson to other folks about reamp boxes ;)

So when I went directly from output three into the amp, bypassing my pedal altogether, I got signal--and a decent sounding one, too. Definitely a bit too hot given that it's line and all, but it sounds good coming out of the amp.

It was when I introduced the guitar pedal (an EHX small stone phaser) into the chain that I had those problems from earlier.

I haven't actually reamped the signal yet because it's late at night and I don't want to disturb the roommates. There are other variables I want to test for like maybe the quarter inch I used going into the pedal was faulty--though I doubt that because I used it earlier today to go into my amp.

Also for any curious I did have to go into Scarlett Mixcontrol and tell DAW3 to go to Line Output 3 in order to get this working.

But it's very nice because I was able to hear the whole song play in my headphones while just the guitar track was coming out of the amp. So, so sweet :thumbup:

Thanks guys for your patience. Now I'm more convinced to buy one of those boxes lol

Windows 10 64-bit, 16GB RAM, AMD Ryzen R7 1700 3GHz, Radeon RX 480, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Gen 2, Studio One 4 Pro
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by Jemusic on Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:18 am
You could just create a send in Studio One on the guitar track only. That send could point to a buss and then assign the buss output to a spare output on your interface e.g. 3-4. That way only the guitar should ever reach the amp.

Sending high level outputs from your interface straight into pedals before the amp might not be so good either. A lot of guitar pedals don't handle high level line signals very well either. They will clip pretty quick.

Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz-8 Gb RAM-Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME HDSP9632 - Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 2/8 - Atom Pad/Atom SQ - HP Laptop Win 10 - Studio 24c interface -iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - High Sierra 10.13.6 - Focusrite Clarett 2 Pre & Scarlett 18i20. Studio One V5.5 (Mac and V6.5 Win 10 laptop), Notion 6.8, Ableton Live 11 Suite, LaunchPad Pro

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