15 posts
Page 1 of 1
Hi
I noticed some behavior that if use any MIDI plugin which generate notes (Thesys again, or G8 from plugin alliance, etc) for play on VST synths, then plugins latency compensation does not works.

For reproduce this behavior need create two instrument tracks (and third with midi plugin, respectively).
On first track load synth and create MIDI clip in S1 sequencer.
Create track with Thesys and draw any midi note pattern inside it, and press play.
On second track load synth and assign Thesys to instrument input (instead midi clip). And load to insert of second track any fx vst with big latency (for better audible result of desync)
During playback of both tracks together will be good hear desynchronization, till fx with latency stay in enabled state.

So, it's expected S1 behavior ? Or Bug ?

(I check do the same in Ableton Live - play all properly, ie synchronously.)
Last edited by anatolyjbugaichuk on Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PC Windows 10 64bit, CPU Intel i7-8700, RAM 16gb, Studio one Pro v4 64bit
User avatar
by anatolyjbugaichuk on Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:14 pm
Or other more common example - when we use fxpansion tremor or microtonic as midisequecer for other synths (instrument tracks), so what - delay compensation for all effects wich will be load to this tracks (insert or send, no matter) will not works?

PC Windows 10 64bit, CPU Intel i7-8700, RAM 16gb, Studio one Pro v4 64bit
User avatar
by niles on Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:39 am
It's a known issue (at least for a few of us).
viewtopic.php?p=141185#p141185

OS: Windows 11 Pro | HW: Gigabyte Z690-UD-DDR4 • INTEL i7 12700K • 64GB • 3x EVO 860 • NVIDIA GT1030 (@WQHD) • RME AIO
User avatar
by anatolyjbugaichuk on Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:04 pm
Hm, ok, but situation even more strange than i expected.
Even if you simple assign CC modulation from ay midi plugin to some parameter of any plugin in project, then compensation for latency of any vst effect (which have latency) will be ignored.

Just now tried to do that:

1) Make track with vst synth (i take ppg wave 2v), and add midi clip to track.
2) other track with sugarbyte Thesys, which will modulate CC 74 (in ppg wave synth it's Filter Cutoff parameter)
3) Assign Thesys to instrument input of ppg wave track, and press play. We observe properly cutoff modulation in ppg wave during his play.
4) Now, just put to new track any vst FX with latency (better with big latency), so, its can be any of spectral processing plugin, which usually have big latency during large FFT size amount. I take unfiltered audio SpecOps.
So, we just put it to new separate track, and rhythmical picture of ppg wave play fully ruined, ie occurs desync (for cutoff modulation).

So what, it turns out that if we use any midi plugin in Studio One (for modulate something or for note triggering, no matter) - then all vst effects with latency become unusable ? And this is normally ?

ADDED:
But what strange, during this action, the latency amount for all three tracks (in performance monitor section) are show the same (371.5ms in my case). So, logically desync not should occur ? (Bug maybe, or what.)

PC Windows 10 64bit, CPU Intel i7-8700, RAM 16gb, Studio one Pro v4 64bit
User avatar
by anatolyjbugaichuk on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:05 pm
In general, i figured out what happening: the PDC (latency compensation) does not apply to any MIDI events which generate\occurs inside plugins, no matter what is it - outcoming cc modulation or outcoming midi notes.

And if we use one of such tools (cableguys midishaper for modulate some cc in some plugin, or fxpansion tremor for play his midi pattern through other synth, etc) will be enough add to project any FX plugin which has latency (even put it to separate track, without signal processed), to start the out of sync for all tracks which receive mentioned midi, relatively to tracks (synths) which play through standart midi clip from S1 sequencer.

It seems it's all. And it's bad.

PC Windows 10 64bit, CPU Intel i7-8700, RAM 16gb, Studio one Pro v4 64bit
User avatar
by dmitrypetrenko on Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:12 am
Faced this problem when using Jamstix 3.6 as a midi engine for other drum modules. Also, I stopped using Jamstix in S1 at all, as in the reverse process - when Jamstix's internal brains are working on external MIDI processing, there is also a desync (even with the quantized sixteenth at zero midi track).
User avatar
by timo.heil on Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:58 am
This thread is now almost 4 years old, but the issue with PDC and instruments with MIDI out still isn't fixed in Studio One 5.4 :(

In Studio One 4 there was a workaround for me, which was to deactivate the 1st output channel in the instrument list (in that case for Jamstixx). Everything would sound fine then. But in v5 the possibility to deactivate the 1st output of an instrument was unfortunately removed for whatever reason.

Until Presonus fixes the problem for good, please upvote my feature request to re-introduce the deactivation of instrument outs:

https://answers.presonus.com/70988/brin ... ent-studio

Studio One 5.x Professional, Win10, i9 10850K, 32GB, RME Fireface UC
User avatar
by timo.heil on Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:21 am
I recorded a little video to demonstrate the PDC issues when sending MIDI from one instrument to another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKj5X6g_X5A

Any comments or hint to existing workarounds highly appreciated. Of course Presonus fixing this for good would be great.

Studio One 5.x Professional, Win10, i9 10850K, 32GB, RME Fireface UC
User avatar
by garyanderson5 on Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:46 pm
Sinse 2015 at least. I will let you figure out were the quote is from. They did fix the midi PDC in version 3 then broke it again in V4. So they must know what it is. I have got a funny feeling it went out of wack the day they added dropout protection features but don't quote me on that :)

"May 19, 2015

I assume you're using the VST version of Cthulhu (you should be, just had to mention).

Studio One has had a bug for a long time now that realtime MIDI sent from plugins is erratic by the buffer size, although I believe it records precisely. Lowering your audio buffer size should reduce the erratic timing, but the best thing obviously would be for them to fix this so I would recommend taking it up with them, as Cthulhu is doing its job correctly."

Windows Pro 11 22H2, 13900K, Z790 Aorus Master, 64GB 32x2 G.Skill Trident Z C30 RAM, 2X 2TB Samsung 980 PRO, ADATA XPG SX8200 PRO 2TB, RX6650XT GFX Card, Corsair RM1000X PSU, Studio One Latest Version & Older versions, Baby Face Pro FS. Nektar T6,
User avatar
by Robdp on Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:35 pm
garyanderson5 wroteSinse 2015 at least. I will let you figure out were the quote is from. They did fix the midi PDC in version 3 then broke it again in V4. So they must know what it is. I have got a funny feeling it went out of wack the day they added dropout protection features but don't quote me on that :)

"May 19, 2015

I assume you're using the VST version of Cthulhu (you should be, just had to mention).

Studio One has had a bug for a long time now that realtime MIDI sent from plugins is erratic by the buffer size, although I believe it records precisely. Lowering your audio buffer size should reduce the erratic timing, but the best thing obviously would be for them to fix this so I would recommend taking it up with them, as Cthulhu is doing its job correctly."



I'm using VST version of Cthulhu and this is STILL a thing... Aug 2022 and we've still got PDC when using plugins like Cthulhu and Scaler???
Anyone know of a work around because this is seriously nuts to have this feature still not work correctly..... :x :x :x :x

Producer/writer
Mac Studio Ultra - OSX 11.2 - Studio One v5 - Apollo x8 - Dangerous Convert 2 / AD+ - SSL Fusion - Neve 8816 - LLD Silver Bullet - Dangerous Monitor ST - Faderport 1 - Console One - Amphions /BareFoots
User avatar
by reggie1979beatz on Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:52 pm
Scaler? I've never had issues with S1. Tomorrow I'll install it (my "new" computer I don't have it installed yet) when the carpet is installed and everything is back in it's place. I'll let you know then.

Bye......:roll:
User avatar
by Robdp on Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:59 pm
reggie1979beatz wroteScaler? I've never had issues with S1. Tomorrow I'll install it (my "new" computer I don't have it installed yet) when the carpet is installed and everything is back in it's place. I'll let you know then.



Yeah that'd be great. I've got both Scaler 2.6 and newest version of Cthulhu and the PDC no matter what settings I use when triggering another instrument is so bad. Exactly what is mentioned here and also in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKj5X6g_X5A

Producer/writer
Mac Studio Ultra - OSX 11.2 - Studio One v5 - Apollo x8 - Dangerous Convert 2 / AD+ - SSL Fusion - Neve 8816 - LLD Silver Bullet - Dangerous Monitor ST - Faderport 1 - Console One - Amphions /BareFoots
User avatar
by reggie1979beatz on Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:29 pm
It will be somewhere in the "noon pacific time DLS"

I've been meaning to get that installed anyways. Just a possible important note: I use the "reason rack" ALOT for similar things (the players) and I've had no issue. Also, the built in "players" in S1 work perfectly too.

And a captain obvious PSA, my specs are below.

Bye......:roll:
User avatar
by reggie1979beatz on Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:24 am
I downloaded scaler and hooked it up with scaler controlling a mai tai. It works as expected.

Tried to swatch the vid, but it's unclear to me where the problem is. My suggestion is that you add "mac" and "scaler" (or the other) to the title. Since I'm on windows, that might be part of the issue.

Bye......:roll:
User avatar
by Robdp on Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:39 am
It could be a windows vs Mac VST thing... I'm pretty sure it is.

I've tried this both on my main rig, and a laptop and I'm getting the same results. When I'm using Scaler or Cthuhulu and the play heard is stationary, I get no lag or latency... soon as I press play, there it is.

I'm reading on a bunch of other forums that people are getting the same thing with Mac VST using another plugin to trigger midi out..

Anyone else confirm this?

Producer/writer
Mac Studio Ultra - OSX 11.2 - Studio One v5 - Apollo x8 - Dangerous Convert 2 / AD+ - SSL Fusion - Neve 8816 - LLD Silver Bullet - Dangerous Monitor ST - Faderport 1 - Console One - Amphions /BareFoots

15 posts
Page 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 68 guests