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niles wroteYes, but each mic should record the pickup on it's own track. After all the click on the vocal mic wont cancel out the click on the guitar mic(s) since it's a different position and thus a different sonic content.

But indeed, all theory and I think Matt and Bbd have practical advice :geek:

Aha! As usual, The Devil is in the Details! :mrgreen: Thanks for pointing that important distinction.

I agree that the simpler and probably sure-fire approach is the ear bud, but I'll experiment with your method, as well. IF it works I'll use it a LOT, so it's worth testing. Thanks.

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by Jemusic on Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:38 pm
You will never cancel out any click sounds that have been picked up in the room. End of story. It just does not work. In fact what you will do is make it louder most often trying to adding in phase reversed tracks etc..

There are some things you can do playing music out through speakers while tracking. The trick is to use a microphone in a figure 8 setting. The speakers need to be on stands at the same height as the microphone. They are set up either side of the mic pointing towards the null points of the figure 8 pattern. You will be amazed at how low the music ends up on the Mic track.

Two caveats though. One is the other side of the mic that is not picking up the overdubbed instrument needs to be pointing towards the dead part of your studio. The other is what you feed out to the speakers. Just drums and some bass and chords. Very little in terms of the mix.

Headphones still work the best.

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by matthewgorman on Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:54 pm
Jemusic wroteYou will never cancel out any click sounds that have been picked up in the room. End of story. It just does not work. In fact what you will do is make it louder most often trying to adding in phase reversed tracks etc..

There are some things you can do playing music out through speakers while tracking. The trick is to use a microphone in a figure 8 setting. The speakers need to be on stands at the same height as the microphone. They are set up either side of the mic pointing towards the null points of the figure 8 pattern. You will be amazed at how low the music ends up on the Mic track.

Two caveats though. One is the other side of the mic that is not picking up the overdubbed instrument needs to be pointing towards the dead part of your studio. The other is what you feed out to the speakers. Just drums and some bass and chords. Very little in terms of the mix.

Headphones still work the best.


I've used a variation of this to track vocals. Place 2 monitors equal distance from the mic, forming an equilateral triangle. Make sure you are feeding a mono signal out to the monitors. If you flip phase on one of the speakers (I have a cable with the leads reversed to do this), the signal from the monitors cancels out at the mic. Its really good for singers that have a hard time with headphones, or for getting a more "Live" feel for the performance.

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by mikemanthei on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:17 pm
Jemusic wroteYou will never cancel out any click sounds that have been picked up in the room. End of story. It just does not work.


Right. In a perfect world, the "invert phase" trick should work. It's just science. But in the world we live in, Jemusic is right. No matter how many times I've tried.

There are ways to limit the amount of click you record in the first place by using mic pickup patterns, gobos, etc... but assuming you can "fix it later" is always wrong. Sometimes it's a simple as the guitar player moving ever so slightly that he changes the relative acoustics of the room..... After all, it's not the "actual" acoustics that matter, it's whatever the microphone "hears" that counts. Just too many variables.

The only answer is: Don't record the click in the first place.

However, this is a very entertaining discussion, Full of creative folks thinking outside the box. Love it.

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by mikemanthei on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:21 pm
matthewgorman wroteI've used a variation of this to track vocals. Place 2 monitors equal distance from the mic, forming an equilateral triangle. Make sure you are feeding a mono signal out to the monitors. If you flip phase on one of the speakers....


For those of us who are sensitive to out-of-phase issues...... a mono signal with one speaker out of phase is like nails on a chalkboard. So for me, I only tried this technique once. :)

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by Jemusic on Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:42 pm
I forgot to mention that the two speakers need to be equidistant from the microphone. And in mono. One speaker being out of phase with the other in this situation is slightly over rated. Even with them both in phase there will be very little speaker spill on the mic track. It also depends on how loud you make the speakers too. You can do it with quite moderate volume.

This technique is also great for recording a large group of singers e.g. children. Put half of the group either side of the mic.

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by jBranam on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:38 pm
from my experience... i agree with james (Bbd)... if you need a metronome it is best to hear it. i know when i play my eyes wander a LOT and i have no idea what or where i am looking at lol and if i am standing it makes it twice as bad with 'happy feet' i reckon a visual is ok if you can pay attention... but for me... i can't pay attention to anything... all i do is listen. good luck and cheers


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by Steve Carter on Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:30 am
Even later to the party.....

Use a spare track and put automation on it via the square wave write (to fllow the song tempo) then assign it to the fader on a faderport or similar - stick a little flag or minature baton on the fader - hey presto, your own personal mini-conductor.... Just saying! :shock:

Maybe a sine wave automation might provide a better representation of a swinging arm...

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by Bbd on Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:13 am
Steve Carter wroteEven later to the party.....

Use a spare track and put automation on it via the square wave write (to fllow the song tempo) then assign it to the fader on a faderport or similar - stick a little flag or minature baton on the fader - hey presto, your own personal mini-conductor.... Just saying! :shock:

Maybe a sine wave automation might provide a better representation of a swinging arm...


Priceless!
:lol:

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by mikemanthei on Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:04 pm
I don't know. I think we're getting into a gray area here ...suitable for a Saturday Night Live skit.

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by Jemusic on Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:04 pm
Steve Carter wroteEven later to the party.....

Use a spare track and put automation on it via the square wave write (to fllow the song tempo) then assign it to the fader on a faderport or similar - stick a little flag or minature baton on the fader - hey presto, your own personal mini-conductor.... Just saying! :shock:

Maybe a sine wave automation might provide a better representation of a swinging arm...


This is not a good suggestion. On the Faderport you may wear out the fader motor in no time at all. Or effects its calibration. It might be OK on a virtual fader though.

Best option is to still play to a click in your headphones. IN Ears are also good for this too as they are probably great for not letting much sound out as well.

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by Steve Carter on Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:29 pm
Yeah, you're right to post a caution. I did consider the possible side effects but I didn't think anyone would take it seriously ~ have a great day.....
Regards to all.

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by Bbd on Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:32 pm
Hey Steve, I did not take you seriously. Thought it was a fun comment!
;)

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by Steve Carter on Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:58 pm
Hey BDB - not you, I know you took it as intended (toungue in cheek) ;) .... But Jemusic posted a perfectly reasonable warning for anyone who may have taken me seriously.

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by Jemusic on Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:06 pm
I think it is not a bad idea especially if you kept it virtual. Someone may set it up on their Faderprot and then wonder why the fader does not work after a while though!

Something like this is interesting:

http://bouncemetronome.com

This is not a VST as yet but there may be a way of running your DAW and a program like this and synchronising the two.

I still think the whole concept is audio though rather than visual.

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by Lokeyfly on Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:23 pm
In case the screen isn't large enough, create two click tracks. First track, connect the down beat, via MIDI, to a light panel to control your house/studio lights. Beat 2, 3, and 4 could be some alternate light cans, metronome would be on pin spots. You'll have a nice light show, and you can even look down at the guitar, without worry of missing a beat.

Phase two - Fixing the choir's timing. The lights are in place. Additionally, place an electric element on each chair again timed to MIDI with a +/- tolerance of let's say 20 milliseconds.. If vocalists, respond too early or late, they get a minor zap. Nothing too severe. Just a few volts for added jubilance, and harmony. :XD:

They'll be harmonizing like the Eagles, and CSN&Y in no time.

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by richardmorrow1 on Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:52 am
Hi all.
I have recently started composing in Notion 6 and in studio one 5 now 6.
In 2003 I purchased from Bartal Industries their Timestream Visual Conductor an out board midi controlled visual metronome programmable to beat in all time signatures. It worked in the cakewalk series.
I have spent hours trying to get it to work in Studio one 5 now 6. I contacted Bartal Industries spoke with its creator and asked him if he would help me try to get his product to be recognized in the program. His name is Phillip and the phone number is 201-567-1343. I mentioned that if he could get his product to work in Studio one he would corner the market and I am sure many musicians who can't stand the noise of the click track would be interested in his recreating the product
Meanwhile, I have created my own bouncing up and down silent visual metronome in Studio one as follows:
Make a click track by rendering the metronome in metronome setup then add a VU meter to the track in the mixer window in the insert section for the click track. Mute the click track and voila you have a bouncing up and down VU meter giving one a silent visual conductor.
In Notion 6 adding a Rit. or accel. to measures does slow or speed up the metronome. So preliminary work can be done in Notion 6 and bounced to Studio one 5-6. For those who play piano score the piano in Notion 6 and use the 2 tracks as your starting point for your composing session bouncing it into the program.
Thanks in advance all
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by Tacman7 on Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:59 pm
Welcome to the Forum!

From my reading it looks like you just send it midi clock, did you try that?

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by richardmorrow1 on Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:22 am
Hello again to all wishing to have a visual Metronome
I certainly preferre to use the TimeStream Visual Conductor by Bartal Industries but never heard back.
So...the next best thing is a single beat up and down visual conductor that is already in Studio one 5 .
1. render the metronome
2. Drag over a VU meter to the track and mute the metronome and voila a silent visual conductor

I hope this is helpful to all interested
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by Jemusic on Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:02 pm
A VU meter needs 300mS to reach the 0VU mark. So although it may look good it may be late visually slightly in comparison to the grid. So you might have to slide the rendered metronome track early for a better indication. You might be better off with a more accurate visual indicator plugin.

A flashing light is actually better. As a drummer who once played in an old time dancing band I had to set tempos for music very accurately without any sound and I found that a flashing LED on my metronome was very helpful. The brain only needs a second or two to figure out the tempo.

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