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why has there never been a phase inversion switch on each track? i know i can use a plugin to do it but that should be on every DAW made and is a long time coming to S1. who wants to add a plugin just to flip the phase around when the track is fine on it's own and needs no plugins. seems like a waste of cycles and time especially if you have a LOT of tracks

so don't tell me about the mixtool plugin lol i know plugs can do it but it SHOULD be part of the inspector or on the track fader. this has been discussed or brought up many times since before v2. if you can put a global effect bypass then you can put a phase switch on each track so we don't HAVE to use a plugin to do what should be part of the DAW already. not bitching but it IS a pain to deal with. cheers

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by Lawrence on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:55 pm
I wouldn't mind having a (cough) "polarity inversion" switch on every channel. :)

Put it in Answers. Got my vote.
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by Jemusic on Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:33 pm
Phase is a slang word for polarity inversion.

I would not mind it either but it something I have rarely needed. It tends to become more of an issue when multiple mics are in close proximity to each other e.g. snare top and bottom mic for example. Or multiple mics on a guitar cab. Sometimes a polarity reversal one of them after summing can make a massive difference to the sound. That is where I would like it for sure. It would save time doing some quick polarity reversals here and there without the need for the plugin.

If you are doing a lot of acoustic recording and apply the 3:1 rule where any microphone should be at least three times the distance to another that is a certain distance to the source, you won't run into any of these issues much. Keep an eye on your mic technique.

But of course it does depend a lot on your workflow etc and for all of us that varies somewhat. Jay obviously needs it a lot so for him it would be a great feature.

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by Bbd on Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:16 pm
Hey Jay,

I was going to say that if everything you recorded was in phase you wouldn't need a polarity inversion gizmo now would you?
;)

Or, you might want to invert something that doesn't need it. I do that a lot.

Since this is not a perfect world, I totally agree that this should be part of the track/channel w/o having to invoke a plug.

:thumbup:

Bbd

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by jBranam on Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:34 pm
i get other stems ... so it is not my own all the time. i have been fighting with doing it via plugins. sorry about that... phase switch ... my mistake lol used for polarity inversion. my mind was a bit ahead of my fingers lol

but it would be nice to have :) cheers

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by Jemusic on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:12 pm
Jay dont feel bad. Phase is actually referring to a timing shift but it is and will always be a loose term to describe flipping polarity. I think it is just generally accepted as such.

I am just worried they are running out of room on the track header though. I would not want it to become as complicated as the Sonar one!

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by jBranam on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:39 am
well i reckon i was thinkin electricity and such... when things are out of phase you usually just flip the polarity 180 degree lol but i am sure everyone knew what i meant... or at least i hope they did. as for placement a small Ø symbol (doesn't really need to be a button) to the right of each fader in mix view would suffice and have it change color from black (off) to the blue color they love (on) it doesn't need to be anywhere else really. right below the little triangle to open and shut the insert/send box. small out of the way and unobtrusive

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:01 am
I think we need to call Jemusic, "Mr. Wizard". He's always explaining things in a way, the viewers can understand. ;)

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by Lokeyfly on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:29 am
Bbd wrote: Hey Jay,

I was going to say that if everything you recorded was in phase you wouldn't need a polarity inversion gizmo now would you?
;)


I was going to offer, that he turn the other way. :oops:

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by klypeman on Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:06 am
I would like a tool like the Little Labs IBP Phase Alignment Tool plug-in for UAD-2 made for SO3 to be able to go all the way. But an Ø switch on tracks like om Mixbus would also be nice for quick and dirty.
:mrgreen:

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by jBranam on Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:04 am
i was thinkin' that too jim... i could just lean to one side or the other lol :thumbup:

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by Lawrence on Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:55 am
Hi JBran,

I'm happy you took my little joke in the spirit intended and didn't unnecessarily turn it into something it wasn't. It's a running joke among older audio engineers, the way people use the word "phase". :)

It's one of the most misused or misapplied words in pro audio. :)
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by matthewgorman on Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:36 am
Count me in as someone that would like basic tools available on the channel. The only thing we can do as users is to give it visibility on the answers site. Whatever the perception is about answers, I can say as a certainty that it is being watched, and the higher vote getting requests are starting to make it in to the DAW.

These things are a case of the user base having features they want vs what the roadmap/vision for the DAW is on the developer's side. This particular request isn't high on my personal list for one reason. I also get stems to work like you, but I started using In Phase (maybe they should call it In Polarity) to correct these issues. Sometimes the fix isn't a true 180 degree flip, and InPhase can make corrections on a partial basis where needed. And sometimes I just line them up manually. I'm never in so much of a hurry that I can't manually correct things where needed. But I also wouldn't dismiss a request like this just because its not in my top 5 things I need. I can see the value of the request, and would probably utilize it if it was there.

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by Lawrence on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:08 am
matthewgorman wrotebut I started using In Phase (maybe they should call it In Polarity) to correct these issues.


:lol: Nah. That (I think, maybe, not sure) might change the linear relationship, shifts the linear timing.

Good idea though, using that. :thumbup:

I do polarity inversions a lot on things like kick drum samples when I stack up 4-6 kick drum samples in hip-hop tracks and similar things. Playing with the polarity in random ways across the stacks results in some very interesting changes in the overall sound, even cases where a certain amount of cancellation between some things actually sounds better in context.

Same with multiple layers of background vocals, like 8-10 stacks of "same harmony note" R&B backing vox layers, inverting the polarity on some of them just to see what it sounds like results in some interesting textures at times. Sometimes you do it and it sounds exactly the same, sometimes not.
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by jBranam on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:37 am
nps mike... i may be in left field sometime but i can still tell jest from malice. after jeff's response i realized i was thinking in the wrong terms. and you are right i have seen the word 'phase' used a lot and not for what it should be. like just the other day i was watching a video and they were talking about stereo spread and sides being so far out of 'phase' which tickled me. i wasn't thinking when i posted first... i meant polarity the whole time. flipping one side or the other 180 degrees so as the 'waves' flow opposite each other giving a fuller sound but i reckon if the sides are so wide they would actually reflect back in to the listener faster than other sound and could in fact cause 'phase' issues as the incoming waves flow back in across outgoing waves and that COULD cancel out some freqs by brute force.

in an auditory sense what i think of as out of phase is actually what causes frequency cancellations and THAT may not even be right. but when i first posted this i was thinking electrically cheers

p.s. and i too find polarity is most needed in drums... it has the most 'recordings' of any single instrument. flipping the kick and snare usually makes them stand up more in the mix. and sometimes the overhead may need it. but this is just my opinion

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by jBranam on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:49 am
hey ed... you seen this vst? the "Polarity Maximizer" by Audiomere https://www.audiomere.com/polarity it is fairly cheap and it has helped me from time to time and cuts out a lot of A/B checks if you have a lot of tracks. it ain't perfect but it gets pretty close and can calculate and compare faster than us humans lol check it out

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by Bbd on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:31 pm
Jay,
Don't feel bad about terminology. I am pretty sure you don't.

Personally, I have always used the term "Out of phase" and,"in phase". I know other DAWS use the term "Phase". Waves advertises "Waves Linear Phase EQ" and "InPhase". There are many many VST's that use the term "phase" and not "polarity".

It would be funny to hear someone say "I think there is a polarity issue between those mics." vs. "Those mike seem out of phase".

Anyway, I don't think I will be looking to change the word anytime soon!
:)

Bbd

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by Lawrence on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:43 pm
We shouldn't be so serious. I gave JBran a little elbow to ribs in good fun [which he clearly "got"] and people act as if I attacked him or something. :)

Last time I'll tell that old audio joke around here. :lol:

Now pardon me while I go change the phase switch on my microphone, :lol:
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by Steve Carter on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:55 am
Jay - I inadvertently swapped the phase on my microwave and it froze my pot noodle! Wouldn't have happened if I'd just had a handy phase switch on the controls.... Gets my vote... :shock:
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by jBranam on Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:11 am
all you guys kill me lol but seriously... my dad always said it was just a 'phase' i was going through and my psych classifies me as bi-polar so i reckon i am thoroughly covered LOL

friends are extended family members and families are fair game for ribbing activities :thumbup: ... down south we call it picking at each other and it is the fun part of living :) cheers

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