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I found very unwelcome behaviour in Studio One's mp3 handling.

If I export mixdown in mp3 format and if this exported track is imported back to the song then the track is delayed about 25 ms behind original.

Is it only me or anybody can confirm it?

Even free foobar2000 player can handle converting wav-mp3 (and vice versa) flawlessly.

Edit: simplified title

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win 7 x64, i5, AMD Radeon 6850, 16 GB RAM, Intel + Samsung SSDs + bunch of other disks, 2x 1920*1200px monitors;

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by Jemusic on Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:38 am
Where did the export start from exactly. Was it say the loop start to end points. Looking at your image it looks like you started from some point before the music starts. eg bar 3 Maybe 25 mS before the music starts.

Try starting the export from bar 3 exactly. I think you find the export will then line up with the original. It is actually wise to start any export a little earlier than the music starts anyway.

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by jpettit on Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:50 am
I can confirm on MP3 and I will look into and report tomorrow. It also appears to not be using the song tempo correctly.

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by Mirek Mach on Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:09 am
@jpettit: Thank you for confirming it.

win 7 x64, i5, AMD Radeon 6850, 16 GB RAM, Intel + Samsung SSDs + bunch of other disks, 2x 1920*1200px monitors;

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by jpettit on Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:30 pm
Reported.
In my testing it only occurred in MP3 export.

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by jpettit on Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:30 pm
Got a reply from development. They confirmed the behavior but the issue is with the 3rd party lame.dll used to encode mp3 and will not be fixed by them.

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by jBranam on Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:11 pm
well that is just lame lol

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by Mirek Mach on Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:02 am
jpettit wroteGot a reply from development. They confirmed the behavior but the issue is with the 3rd party lame.dll used to encode mp3 and will not be fixed by them.


What!? It is not answer I expected from Presonus. If I export wav and then convert it to mp3 in free music player Foobar2000 which is using lame.dll too and then import this mp3 track back into Studio One then both original track and imported mp3 track are aligned!

win 7 x64, i5, AMD Radeon 6850, 16 GB RAM, Intel + Samsung SSDs + bunch of other disks, 2x 1920*1200px monitors;

Studio One Professional from v.1.6 (now 3.5.6 for work and 4.1.3 for testing), Melodyne Editor 4.2.1;

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by carlosreiakvam on Sat May 20, 2017 8:44 am
So is there a way to update the 3rd party lame.dll in order to get a fix?
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by jpettit on Sat May 20, 2017 9:43 am
Not that I know of.

Just curious what would be the workflow for using MP3 in and out of studio one?

The developer seem to think it is a temporary output not intended for internal use of developing a song.

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by Tacman7 on Sun May 21, 2017 7:29 am
I can't tell how much of a lag you have but I've always had to trim the front of an mp3 to get the timing right when I'm collaborating.

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by codamedia on Wed May 24, 2017 6:16 am
Tacman7 wroteI can't tell how much of a lag you have but I've always had to trim the front of an mp3 to get the timing right when I'm collaborating.



^^^ This ^^^

The MP3 codec always has added space at the beginning of a file. It's not the LAME encoder, nor is it Studio One... it's the MP3 spec! If that space is not added on some programs, then it's trickery (extra programming) to remove it. This is normally never a problem because you usually only listen to an MP3 on it's own.

Importing your "exported MP3" back into the project is not a normal practice... you wouldn't normally want a lossy file format used in your studio/project files. Since MP3 is really intended as a final distribution file I can see why Presonus wouldn't want to take any time from development to fix the problem that isn't really theirs.

Just my 2 cents.

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by gwmullins on Fri May 26, 2017 9:01 am
Codamedia is correct on all counts. I went through this issue about 15 years ago when making loops and discovered the extra material at the beginning of the file. Answer was the same - the MP3 codec requires a little material added at the beginning of the file. I was trying to save disc space back then by storing loops as MP3. Didn't work. Stack up 50 MP3 loops on a track and you can really watch things get out of sync by the end of a song.

Use .wav files in a DAW.

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by Mirek Mach on Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:03 am
codamedia wroteThe MP3 codec always has added space at the beginning of a file. It's not the LAME encoder, nor is it Studio One... it's the MP3 spec! If that space is not added on some programs, then it's trickery (extra programming) to remove it. This is normally never a problem because you usually only listen to an MP3 on it's own.

Sorry for ressurecting the old thread, but almost everything in quotted post is not based on reality.

Both Studio One and foobar2000 (free audio player) use LAME and only former has timing problems. Does it mean that even if both programs use LAME then the foobar2000 bypasses some mp3 specification? Cubendo can export and import mp3 files without problems too. Does that mean that it bypasses some mp3 specification too?

codamedia wroteImporting your "exported MP3" back into the project is not a normal practice... you wouldn't normally want a lossy file format used in your studio/project files. Since MP3 is really intended as a final distribution file I can see why Presonus wouldn't want to take any time from development to fix the problem that isn't really theirs.

It's not normal practice importing your exported mp3 back into the project. But if you are musician and you are in composing stage and you are colaborating with other five guys around the country and everybody is sending many variations of their parts as work continues then every byte counts.

It's pity that PreSonus nor some people here can see that working with mp3 files is sometimes advantageous.

win 7 x64, i5, AMD Radeon 6850, 16 GB RAM, Intel + Samsung SSDs + bunch of other disks, 2x 1920*1200px monitors;

Studio One Professional from v.1.6 (now 3.5.6 for work and 4.1.3 for testing), Melodyne Editor 4.2.1;

Focusrite Clarett 4Pre USB, FaderPort 2018, Korg microKEY61, Kemper Profiler.
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by riniehuigen on Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:08 am
For what it's worth... Cubase uses Frauenhofer codec and it's the same there some chunk is added and the file is not exactly in sync once you import it. I believe it has something to do with the extra info added and embedded in the file. I never use mp3 as media. You have to correct it manually in DAWs. You might want to use Flac for saving space.

Also gapless playback of mp3 is usually accomplished with little crossfades for the same reason. Else you would hear a very small silence. This will only be audible if songs follow up directly. It's just not an accurate format to use in a DAW. Forgive me if my English is bad.... I'm Dutch.🙃

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by tpittman on Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:40 pm
It is a pity that PreSonus nor some people here can see that working with mp3 files is sometimes advantageous.[/quote]

It sure is, I had some very old material recorded many years ago on a Tamcam 388 Reel to Reel. Long story short after many hours of converting material to digital and into Studio One I was able to really improve the mix. I was new to Studio One and Digital audio. I was not sure how to save things and somehow in the confusion (of my own making) the mix / setting in Studio One was not saved (my fault) however I had exported then imported the MP3 back into the Song before losing the setting I had.

I noticed sometime later that I did not get the Bass Guitar loud enough. Since I did not have all the setting saved (in the song file) I thought that playing the MP3 and adding the Bass Guitar track I could fix it but the tracks did not line up which at this point I was frustrated and moved on. The point is if the tracks were lined up it would have likely been very easy to correct my mix. This has been some time ago and I have learned a lot and should re-visit to see if I could line up the 2 tracks and fix my fix. IMO Presonus should fix this.

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by Tacman7 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:02 pm
It's nothing to do with S1.

Mp3 files have a little space in front of them.

Trim them when you import them then they will be in time.

Always had to do that in Cubase.

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by Mirek Mach on Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:40 pm
Tacman7 wroteIt's nothing to do with S1.

Mp3 files have a little space in front of them.

Trim them when you import them then they will be in time.

Always had to do that in Cubase.


Since you've always done it, can you please tell me what amount of trimming you used when importing someone else's .mp3 file into your DAW? Is it the same amount every time regardless of DAW your partner used?

How do you explain that there exists at least one software (see this post) where no gap at start of .mp3 file occurs? How would you trim such a file if I sent it to you?

BTW your experience with Cubase and .mp3 files are opposite to my experince with people using Cubase. As I know they are working with .mp3 files just fine for years. Until, a few years ago, I stepped in with Studio One. Then, problems have arisen.

win 7 x64, i5, AMD Radeon 6850, 16 GB RAM, Intel + Samsung SSDs + bunch of other disks, 2x 1920*1200px monitors;

Studio One Professional from v.1.6 (now 3.5.6 for work and 4.1.3 for testing), Melodyne Editor 4.2.1;

Focusrite Clarett 4Pre USB, FaderPort 2018, Korg microKEY61, Kemper Profiler.
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by riniehuigen on Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:04 pm
See the info for lame here. FAQ 1. Old info but mp3 is an old format. 🤗
http://lame.sourceforge.net/tech-FAQ.txt

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by Tacman7 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:27 pm
I just zoomed in as much as possible and cut where the sound starts then move the remainder over to the start.

I used to like .wma format because those you didn't have to trim but that format has fallen out of favor.

In collaboration you use mp3's to audition and track to but use actual wav files compressed with monkey audio to deliver your content, least that's the way the site I was on did it.

Now days the collaboration sites just use wav's a lot of the time because bandwidth isn't a problem I guess.

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