13 posts
Page 1 of 1
This scenario is fully realized while in mix mode, although if set up this way will show during recording and overdubbing.

Function: Solo In Place.
Expected Behavior: When any track is solo'ed it should be isolated in the mix with the Solo Safe FX channels providing reverb (ambiance).

Actual behavior: When a track with a send to a Solo Safe FX track is solo'ed, other tracks that have an 'On Mute' or 'UnMute' written, will unmute, the audio will not be sent to the mix bus, but audio will be sent to the 'Solo Safe' FX track (with a reverb inserted is most obvious) and the reverb return will get put on the mix buss rendering any effective listening to the desired solo'ed track impossible. It makes no difference if the send is pre or post fader.

Steps to reproduce:
1: New song with several test tracks. Make a few of them audio tracks.
2: Add 2 FX tracks with a reverb inserted and make sure they are set to Solo Safe.
3: Add sends to those FX tracks on the new audio and instrument tracks.
4: Write automation mutes on and off on several of them. For this example on a few of the tracks leave them on until the end of the tracks and write a 'mute on' (button goes red) only at the end.
5: cue to the beginning of the 'song'
6: solo one of the tracks with a mute later in the 'song'
7: Press play.
8: You will notice that the tracks that have mutes later in the 'song' will unmute (button goes dark).
9: You will hear in addition to the track just solo'ed, reverb return from those tracks with mutes later in the 'song'.
10: Their mute buttons will be dark and the reverb send will be active (with no audio directly to the mix bus)

Other artifacts:
1: If you mute one of the offending tracks (that the on mute has unmuted when play was pressed) it will mute the audio on that track meaning the send will now be quiet. However, when stopping the transport the track will not come out of mute, but will do so when play is pressed again, bringing the problem into view again.
2: When the original track that is solo'ed in place is taken out of solo, some of the tracks that were muted due to the solo in place being in effect, will unmute (button goes dark) but no audio will play and no meter will show, even with audio on the track. The only way to get the audio on those tracks to 'come back' is to stop the transport and then resume play.
3: As stated above, this occurs on tracks with either pre or post fader selected.

Song Setup is as follows:
Audio Device: Universal Audio Apollo (Quad) Blackface
Device Block Size: 512 samples
Process Precision: Double (64 bit)
Multiprocessing enabled
CPU Cores 10 (20 threads) 18 selected

Song Setup:
Inputs:
1-2: Mic/Line/Hi Z 1
Mic/Line/Hi Z 2
1: Mic/Line/Hi Z 1
2: Mic/Line/Hi Z 2
3:-4: Mic/Line 3
Mic/Line 4
3: Mic/Line 3
4: Mic/Line 4
5-6: Line 5
Line 6
5: Line 5
6: Line 6
7-8: Line 7
Line 8
7: Line 7
8: Line 8
Bricasti: ADAT 1
ADAT 2
PCM92-1: ADAT 3
ADAT 4
PCM92-2: ADAT 5
ADAT 6
TC Verb: S/PDIF L
S/PDIF R

Outputs:
Mix L-R: MON L (9)
MON R (10)
Mix L: MON L (9)
Mix R: MON R (10)
Mix Surr L-R Line 3 (3)
Line 4 (4)
Mix Surr L: Line 3 (3)
Mix Surr R: Line 4 (4)
Out 5-6: Line 5
Line 6
Out 5: Line 5
Out 6: Line 6
Out 7-8: Line 7
Line 8
Out 7: Line 7
Out 8: Line 8
Bricasti ADAT 1
ADAT 2
PCM92-1: ADAT 3
ADAT 4
PCM92-2: ADAT 5
ADAT 6
TC Verb: S/PDIF L
S/PDIF R

Audition [Mix L-R]

The below items are checkboxes under the Advanced Preferences.
I've only included the checkboxes that are checked. The unchecked preferences have been omitted.
Advanced

[Editing]
Enable crosshair cursor for tools
Expand layers after recording takes
Colorize track controls
Auto colorize tracks and layers
Show channel numbers in tracks

[Automation]
Automation follows events
Disable events under automation envelopes

[Audio]
Use cache for timestretched audio files
Record tempo information to audio files
Process audio in safe mode

[MIDI]
Timecode follows loop

[Console]
Colorize channel strips
Instrument track monitoring follows record

Fade Mode [Touch]

I've recorded a video using jing and uploaded it to screencast further illustrating the problem in live action detail:

http://www.screencast.com/t/ljUWomMU8

This has been occurring for me since 2.6.5, when I first purchased Studio One and it started with a Pro Tools HDX setup. I was using Studio One with Core Audio and my AVID hardware. Computer at the time was a Mac 4.1 that was upgraded to a Mac 5.1 with the firmware upgrade and new processors, and memory. I then purchased a new Mac 6.1 with Studio One 3.0 and the Apollo, and the issue continues to this day.

Lastly, the system specs are in my signature.

Any help or ideas to help me get this fixed will be greatly appreciated.

Mac Pro 6.1 32 gig 1866 memory, 512G internal PCIe SSD, 2-480G OWC 3G SSD's in Thunderbolt case, twin D300video cards, 2 x Raven MTi2's, Pro Tools 12.4 | HD, UAD Apollo, 2 UAD Thunderbolt Satellite Octo's, RME ADI-4 DD, Yosemite 10.10.5, Studio One 3.5.1, outboard hardware via AES (Bricasti M7, 2 x Lexicon PCM92, TC Electronics M350 though homemade SRC). Neve Portico 5012, 5043, Lot's and lots of plug ins, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Vienna Instruments, VSL Special Edition Strings, DynAudio Bm6's and MB14S sub.
User avatar
by ArKay99 on Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:06 am
6 days, 54 views, and no one has this issue, or is affected by this?
1: I must be the only one using S1 for mixing...
2: I must be the only one using solo in place...
3: Perhaps this doesn't happen with Windows systems...
4: There is a very small contingent of S1 users on Macs...

Mac Pro 6.1 32 gig 1866 memory, 512G internal PCIe SSD, 2-480G OWC 3G SSD's in Thunderbolt case, twin D300video cards, 2 x Raven MTi2's, Pro Tools 12.4 | HD, UAD Apollo, 2 UAD Thunderbolt Satellite Octo's, RME ADI-4 DD, Yosemite 10.10.5, Studio One 3.5.1, outboard hardware via AES (Bricasti M7, 2 x Lexicon PCM92, TC Electronics M350 though homemade SRC). Neve Portico 5012, 5043, Lot's and lots of plug ins, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Vienna Instruments, VSL Special Edition Strings, DynAudio Bm6's and MB14S sub.
User avatar
by niles on Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:30 pm
rogerkeay wrote3: Perhaps this doesn't happen with Windows systems...
It also happens on Windows.

OS: Windows 10 Pro | HW: P9X79 • i7 3930K • 16GB • 3x EVO 860 • NVIDIA GT1030 (@WQHD) • RME AIO
User avatar
by ArKay99 on Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:47 pm
niles wrote
rogerkeay wrote3: Perhaps this doesn't happen with Windows systems...
It also happens on Windows.

Thanks for the info niles. I'm trying to get enough people to consider this an important issue, at least as important to them as it is for me to get a fix for this. It's the main reason I have kept Pro Tools on my machine,,, I can't mix seriously with S1.

Mac Pro 6.1 32 gig 1866 memory, 512G internal PCIe SSD, 2-480G OWC 3G SSD's in Thunderbolt case, twin D300video cards, 2 x Raven MTi2's, Pro Tools 12.4 | HD, UAD Apollo, 2 UAD Thunderbolt Satellite Octo's, RME ADI-4 DD, Yosemite 10.10.5, Studio One 3.5.1, outboard hardware via AES (Bricasti M7, 2 x Lexicon PCM92, TC Electronics M350 though homemade SRC). Neve Portico 5012, 5043, Lot's and lots of plug ins, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Vienna Instruments, VSL Special Edition Strings, DynAudio Bm6's and MB14S sub.
User avatar
by ArKay99 on Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:19 am
This is an FYI, for any that are interested.

I logged a ticket with this info at support. I was notified that development knows about this bug, but there is no known fix for it at this time and was advised to watch the update process for a fix.

I understand this is not a 'show-stopper' in that the program runs and doesn't crash because of this.

For me, this is a 'show-stopper' regarding mixing with Studio One. So, I still won't be using Studio One as a replacement for Pro Tools and in fact will have to do my mixes in Pro Tools until this is fixed. It's too onerous to have to deal with while trying to get a mix going.

Again, this is a 'for me'. Not trying to disparage the software or the developers. It's just that I spend as much time mixing as tracking and can't work with the program as it currently is.

Mac Pro 6.1 32 gig 1866 memory, 512G internal PCIe SSD, 2-480G OWC 3G SSD's in Thunderbolt case, twin D300video cards, 2 x Raven MTi2's, Pro Tools 12.4 | HD, UAD Apollo, 2 UAD Thunderbolt Satellite Octo's, RME ADI-4 DD, Yosemite 10.10.5, Studio One 3.5.1, outboard hardware via AES (Bricasti M7, 2 x Lexicon PCM92, TC Electronics M350 though homemade SRC). Neve Portico 5012, 5043, Lot's and lots of plug ins, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Vienna Instruments, VSL Special Edition Strings, DynAudio Bm6's and MB14S sub.
User avatar
by Skaperverket on Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:56 pm
I use solo in place. I have also come across similar situations with hearing unexpected channels through the solo-safed returns. I'm not sure it's the exact same behavior as you describe, though, cause I never use automation on mutes (I tend to use the mute tool on the events or just fader automation). That type of behavior is irritating either way, but I've kind of learnt to live with it. I guess I'm just saying that I do understand where you're coming from.

P.S.: Those are quite some rigs you've had, Roger. Care to describe differences in power, noise, usability and overall experience/satisfaction/value?
User avatar
by ArKay99 on Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:39 pm
Skaperverket wroteI use solo in place. I have also come across similar situations with hearing unexpected channels through the solo-safed returns. I'm not sure it's the exact same behavior as you describe, though, cause I never use automation on mutes (I tend to use the mute tool on the events or just fader automation). That type of behavior is irritating either way, but I've kind of learnt to live with it. I guess I'm just saying that I do understand where you're coming from.

P.S.: Those are quite some rigs you've had, Roger. Care to describe differences in power, noise, usability and overall experience/satisfaction/value?

Thanks for the reply and info Skaperverket. For my situation, it's hard to convince a client that this is normal behavior, especially when there are 8 to 12 vocal tracks all bleeding into the soloed guitar track the client wants to eq...then he has to wait until I can clear all the automation on those tracks, mute them, have hime do the eq, stop the transport, unmute the offending tracks, re-arm the automation on all those tracks and press play again...then, no, the eq isn't quite right, time to re-do all that was done one more time...it adds up to hours of wasted time and effort and unhappy clients, thinking I must be an idiot...they are probably right about that, but not because I can't manage the DAW. ;)

The reason I originally chose Pro Tools HDX is , I like to use MIDI and VI's and track with them too, and like to use a lot of plug ins without having to 'freeze' tracks, which you couldn't do with PT anyway at the time. You had to bounce the tracks. I originally had a TDM HD3 system and it worked great, but the hardware became obsolete when HDX came out and I had to transition to PT 11. HDX was a very powerful system and sounded great but it had many bugs and the company came out with a subscription plan that was onerous to me and wouldn't give any details on what that meant as far as making my assets valuable in the long term and nothing about what my costs would be as an HDX owner in the future. I decided to divest of the Pro Tools rig and found that the Apollo would work for me. I could still have the dsp and plugins for tracking and they have great sounding plugins anyway.

All through the divestment process I had started using Studio One and found it to be a very capable DAW with a lot of similarities in workflow to Pro Tools, with some very nice tracking features Pro Tools lacked.

I still have an HD license and use it for older projects and for mixing, but use Studio One for tracking. I would also like to use Studio One for mastering, but it lacks automation in the project module at this time.

As far as power...I would say that Pro Tools HDX is more powerful than the Apollo, but as I said, I didn't think AVID was interested in a small studio operation doing music as they were probably setting their sites on multi-room audio for video and film and scoring houses...where the deep pockets were.

I'm hoping that this bug gets fixed, automation is put into the mastering module, and dual touch screen TUIO is implemented...when that happens I can erase Pro Tools from my hard disk...after I import the older projects.

Mac Pro 6.1 32 gig 1866 memory, 512G internal PCIe SSD, 2-480G OWC 3G SSD's in Thunderbolt case, twin D300video cards, 2 x Raven MTi2's, Pro Tools 12.4 | HD, UAD Apollo, 2 UAD Thunderbolt Satellite Octo's, RME ADI-4 DD, Yosemite 10.10.5, Studio One 3.5.1, outboard hardware via AES (Bricasti M7, 2 x Lexicon PCM92, TC Electronics M350 though homemade SRC). Neve Portico 5012, 5043, Lot's and lots of plug ins, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Vienna Instruments, VSL Special Edition Strings, DynAudio Bm6's and MB14S sub.
User avatar
by ArKay99 on Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:40 pm
rogerkeay wrote
Skaperverket wroteI use solo in place. I have also come across similar situations with hearing unexpected channels through the solo-safed returns. I'm not sure it's the exact same behavior as you describe, though, cause I never use automation on mutes (I tend to use the mute tool on the events or just fader automation). That type of behavior is irritating either way, but I've kind of learnt to live with it. I guess I'm just saying that I do understand where you're coming from.

P.S.: Those are quite some rigs you've had, Roger. Care to describe differences in power, noise, usability and overall experience/satisfaction/value?

Thanks for the reply and info Skaperverket. For my situation, it's hard to convince a client that this is normal behavior, especially when there are 8 to 12 vocal tracks all bleeding into the soloed guitar track the client wants to eq...then he has to wait until I can clear all the automation on those tracks, mute them, have him do the eq, stop the transport, unmute the offending tracks, re-arm the automation on all those tracks and press play again...then, no, the eq isn't quite right, time to re-do all that was done one more time...it adds up to hours of wasted time and effort and unhappy clients, thinking I must be an idiot...they are probably right about that, but not because I can't manage the DAW. ;)

The reason I originally chose Pro Tools HDX is , I like to use MIDI and VI's and track with them too, and like to use a lot of plug ins without having to 'freeze' tracks, which you couldn't do with PT anyway at the time. You had to bounce the tracks. I originally had a TDM HD3 system and it worked great, but the hardware became obsolete when HDX came out and I had to transition to PT 11. HDX was a very powerful system and sounded great but it had many bugs and the company came out with a subscription plan that was onerous to me and wouldn't give any details on what that meant as far as making my assets valuable in the long term and nothing about what my costs would be as an HDX owner in the future. I decided to divest of the Pro Tools rig and found that the Apollo would work for me. I could still have the dsp and plugins for tracking and they have great sounding plugins anyway.

All through the divestment process I had started using Studio One and found it to be a very capable DAW with a lot of similarities in workflow to Pro Tools, with some very nice tracking features Pro Tools lacked.

I still have an HD license and use it for older projects and for mixing, but use Studio One for tracking. I would also like to use Studio One for mastering, but it lacks automation in the project module at this time.

As far as power...I would say that Pro Tools HDX is more powerful than the Apollo, but as I said, I didn't think AVID was interested in a small studio operation doing music as they were probably setting their sites on multi-room audio for video and film and scoring houses...where the deep pockets were.

I'm hoping that this bug gets fixed, automation is put into the mastering module, and dual touch screen TUIO is implemented...when that happens I can erase Pro Tools from my hard disk...after I import the older projects.

Mac Pro 6.1 32 gig 1866 memory, 512G internal PCIe SSD, 2-480G OWC 3G SSD's in Thunderbolt case, twin D300video cards, 2 x Raven MTi2's, Pro Tools 12.4 | HD, UAD Apollo, 2 UAD Thunderbolt Satellite Octo's, RME ADI-4 DD, Yosemite 10.10.5, Studio One 3.5.1, outboard hardware via AES (Bricasti M7, 2 x Lexicon PCM92, TC Electronics M350 though homemade SRC). Neve Portico 5012, 5043, Lot's and lots of plug ins, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Vienna Instruments, VSL Special Edition Strings, DynAudio Bm6's and MB14S sub.
User avatar
by Skaperverket on Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:05 am
The process you have to go through to audition these soloed tracks sounds really cumbersome. I truly understand why you'd want it to work as expected. Weird that they can't just fix it in a simple way.

As I said, I split and mute the events themselves, and if necessary for VSTis, parallel channels and FX returns I use the faders, not automated mutes. Could that be something to consider for you to do as well? I have tried many different DAWs throughout the years and while there will always be some features from one DAW or the other that I might prefer, for me I've found the overall winner to be Studio One. It all works pretty much effortlessly. Especially after the last few revisions since version 3. I hope the great work in Hamburg continues and that I won't ever feel the need to change again.

Thanks for your thoughts on your setups, Roger. I appreciate it.

What about those Macs, is the 6.1 an upgrade from the 5.1 you used to use?
User avatar
by ArKay99 on Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:59 pm
Skaperverket wroteThe process you have to go through to audition these soloed tracks sounds really cumbersome. I truly understand why you'd want it to work as expected. Weird that they can't just fix it in a simple way.

As I said, I split and mute the events themselves, and if necessary for VSTis, parallel channels and FX returns I use the faders, not automated mutes. Could that be something to consider for you to do as well? I have tried many different DAWs throughout the years and while there will always be some features from one DAW or the other that I might prefer, for me I've found the overall winner to be Studio One. It all works pretty much effortlessly. Especially after the last few revisions since version 3. I hope the great work in Hamburg continues and that I won't ever feel the need to change again.

Thanks for your thoughts on your setups, Roger. I appreciate it.

What about those Macs, is the 6.1 an upgrade from the 5.1 you used to use?


Well, using the mute tool won't work in a mix when you want to check panning placement or eq on one or several tracks. I think of SIP as everybody else shut up. For me this is a serious bug that needs to be addressed and fixed before I can consider using S1 for serious mixing. It's unfortunate at this time because I happen to agree with you. I love the workflow and configurability on the fly with S1. I've only touched the surface and I'm hooked.

My Mac 6.1 was an Apple refurbed base model quad core with 16gb of memory and a 512gb internal SSD. I had it shipped to OWC which does Apple factory upgrades and had them put in a second generation 3 gig 10 core ( I forget the model number, but it was the more recent one) and upgrade the memory to 32 gig.

My Mac 4.1 was a 2.26 dual Xeon with 12 gig 1066 at first, then I upped it 24 gig.1066 memory. I later did the upgrade to dual 5675's (3.06ghz) and 24 gig 1333 memory. I went with the 3.06ghz proc's because they were the fastest Xeon's with the lower power rating...95 watts, I believe. I was also able to put faster memory in. I did some 32 bit bechmark's between the 2 and the 5.1 after upgrading still beat the 6.1 by a tiny bit. MAybe it's because the dual Xeon's give me 12 cores at 3.06ghz over 10 at 3ghz. The advantage the 6.1 has over the 5.1 is thunderbolt. I was using an Apollo firewire and although it was a 800mhz connection, it couldn't match the tb for speed and reliability. The firewire port was always either crashing or hanging up.

I'm actually in the process of re-imagining my 5.1. AVID has dropped the price of the HDX cards to just below $3k and Focusright just came out with an interface Red 4 with digi ports, thunderbolt and dante and 4 Focusrite mic pre's. It would make a monstrous second rig. We'll have to see how the finances work out in the coming months.

Mac Pro 6.1 32 gig 1866 memory, 512G internal PCIe SSD, 2-480G OWC 3G SSD's in Thunderbolt case, twin D300video cards, 2 x Raven MTi2's, Pro Tools 12.4 | HD, UAD Apollo, 2 UAD Thunderbolt Satellite Octo's, RME ADI-4 DD, Yosemite 10.10.5, Studio One 3.5.1, outboard hardware via AES (Bricasti M7, 2 x Lexicon PCM92, TC Electronics M350 though homemade SRC). Neve Portico 5012, 5043, Lot's and lots of plug ins, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Vienna Instruments, VSL Special Edition Strings, DynAudio Bm6's and MB14S sub.
User avatar
by Skaperverket on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:40 pm
My apologies, I bet you understood the first time, but I just have to make sure: My suggested workflow is not that you use the mute tool instead of the solo button, but that you use the mute tool instead of relying on automation of the mute button. If I've understood correctly, it is the automation of the mute buttons that breaks the expected behavior of the SIP. By using the mute tool instead of the mute button automation, could it be that the SIP function of the solo buttons now will function as expected? It could be that I've misunderstood something, but this was what I meant.

Thanks for the info on the Macs. I find it really interesting that an old dual Xenon 5.1s still can beat a newer 6.1s. I've heard similar stories before. CPU speeds have really not improved as much (per year) lately as they used to. Regarding TB in the 5.1: Could you not install a card with a TB bus, or were there none available? Your suggestion for the 5.1 as a secondary rig sounds awesome.
User avatar
by ArKay99 on Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:29 am
Skaperverket wroteMy apologies, I bet you understood the first time, but I just have to make sure: My suggested workflow is not that you use the mute tool instead of the solo button, but that you use the mute tool instead of relying on automation of the mute button. If I've understood correctly, it is the automation of the mute buttons that breaks the expected behavior of the SIP. By using the mute tool instead of the mute button automation, could it be that the SIP function of the solo buttons now will function as expected? It could be that I've misunderstood something, but this was what I meant.

Ahh, yes, I misunderstood your suggestion. I'm an old dog, so it's hard to learn new tricks. It still is a cumbersome work around, especially if you have a lot of tracks with a lot of automation mutes already written. I do thank you for the suggestion and it appears to be a viable workaround for mixes in the future. I also suppose that after using it for a bit it would become easier to use.
Skaperverket wroteThanks for the info on the Macs. I find it really interesting that an old dual Xenon 5.1s still can beat a newer 6.1s. I've heard similar stories before. CPU speeds have really not improved as much (per year) lately as they used to. Regarding TB in the 5.1: Could you not install a card with a TB bus, or were there none available? Your suggestion for the 5.1 as a secondary rig sounds awesome.

Keep in mind that the 5.1 is using 12 cores at 3.06ghz and 1333mhz memory to the 10 core at 3.0ghzwith 1866mhz memory in the 6.1. 2 less cores but faster memory in the 6.1. But yes, that 'old' 5.1 really is fast with the new processors.

To answer your question about tb in the 5.1, it can't happen. TB is a technology that must be built into the motherboard. It shares several core motherboard resources, like video, PCIe buss signals, and other parts of the core motherboard operation. That's how you can daisy chain a TB monitor with a TB disk drive. Think of it as the parallel PCIe buss serialized. Also the firmware in the BIOS needs to be written to address the TB functionality. I learned this when I was searching for a TB solution for my 5.1. I was disappointed to learn that it will never be an option for the 5.1.

However, using it as a purpose built machine specifically for music utilizing an HDX card to contain the DSP makes TB unnecessary.

Mac Pro 6.1 32 gig 1866 memory, 512G internal PCIe SSD, 2-480G OWC 3G SSD's in Thunderbolt case, twin D300video cards, 2 x Raven MTi2's, Pro Tools 12.4 | HD, UAD Apollo, 2 UAD Thunderbolt Satellite Octo's, RME ADI-4 DD, Yosemite 10.10.5, Studio One 3.5.1, outboard hardware via AES (Bricasti M7, 2 x Lexicon PCM92, TC Electronics M350 though homemade SRC). Neve Portico 5012, 5043, Lot's and lots of plug ins, Vienna Ensemble Pro, Vienna Instruments, VSL Special Edition Strings, DynAudio Bm6's and MB14S sub.
User avatar
by Skaperverket on Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:49 pm
Then it wasn't me misunderstanding. I'm glad. Hopefully the mute tool workaround can be of help until the guys at Presonus fix solo in place.

Thanks for a great explanation of why TB won't work for the 5.1. Best of luck with your mixes and the reconfiguration of the 5.1.

13 posts
Page 1 of 1

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: kisnou, peterbirch, robertcanino and 34 guests