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Select midi clip, and in Inspector bottom raise transpose value.
Then do extract to chord track - and this transpose is not seen in chords.
You can see in track though that notes are different and they also play correctly.

Is this a known issue or?

I worked around this doing Musical Transpose instead, then extract works.

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by Lokeyfly on Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:49 am
I dont use chord track but I'm thinking it's likely similar with Cubase in that the inspector's transpose doesn't relay that change of a chord, only literally handles transposition sort of like a capo on a guitar neck for some sort of example. So the chord track doesn't equate that. For a guitarist, they'd still be playing a Gmaj, even though the capo brought it for example to an A#maj.

In the title "so chord become as recorded".
So (and I'm guessing), if you bounce the event being handled by both chord track, and transpose, you would get both results of both, yet the chord from the chord track doesn't doesn't read that chord (further altered by transpose)?

Or, you bounce both and transpose doesn't alter the combined change?

If so, it would seam like a snag, because the key is now something else entirely. I suppose if the chord track was to re read the new resultant change it might now see it differently. Not sure.

If not bouncing at all, you mean the chord is simply not weighing the transpose to that new chord relevancy, I believe that isn't a fault (though you're hearing something else). They are simply different entities from a design perspective. Not result perspective.

Sorry, but I'm admittedly out of knowing how the chord track sees that, but would like to know it's strengths, or shortcomings of what your seeing.

Someone will likely have a direct answer. My only point is I've seen where transpose is isolated from chording.
Even though, in theory, they shouldn't be. :)

I usually treat transpose as a quick and dirty, which it does very well. I just dont expect to see MIDI change on a grid or anywhere else. Probably due to early sequencer conditioning.

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by IanM5 on Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:58 am
I wouldn't really expect extract to chords to take account of the Inspector transpose setting. I would select all the events and transpose via the right-click menu, which I think you already did.

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by robertgray3 on Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:17 am
If you want to transpose a loop and then extract the chords you have to bounce it first. The order of operations is not very well designed for this particular application, the chord track ignores event transposition etc.

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by Nip on Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:37 pm
Thanks guys.
I did a musical transpose - which is desctructive and then i works - as I mentioned.
I see no reason why chord extraction should not look for transpose.
I think it is overlooked/bug/feature - whatever you prefer to call it.

In this case I just recorded 4 bars, duplicated twice, and made a key change in the middle one.
Just discovered this middle 4 bars did not follow through with transpose on clip over to chords - it plays just fine though.
No, not shared copies.

I think it's nice with non-destructive stuff like that on a clip. The other methods can be undone, if straight after change is made only.

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by Lokeyfly on Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:05 pm
IanM5 wroteI wouldn't really expect extract to chords to take account of the Inspector transpose setting.


Yes, me thinks so too. :thumbup:


Nip wroteThanks guys.
I did a musical transpose - which is desctructive and then i works - as I mentioned.
I see no reason why chord extraction should not look for transpose.
I think it is overlooked/bug/feature - whatever you prefer to call it.

In this case I just recorded 4 bars, duplicated twice, and made a key change in the middle one.
Just discovered this middle 4 bars did not follow through with transpose on clip over to chords - it plays just fine though.
No, not shared copies.

I think it's nice with non-destructive stuff like that on a clip. The other methods can be undone, if straight after change is made only.


Yeah, the non destructive design is a blessing.

Most DAW's that contain transpose in the inspector isolate changing the actual MIDI data on the grid. So a bug would be pretty rampant. Like an Asian Longhorn Beetle, or these killer bees we keep hearing about coming up from the south. :)

Seriously, it isn't one (bug). Ultimately, you could transpose, bounce and have that result printed. Even copy the MIDI side of it as a backup If you'd like, create a Feature request, or locate one that handles this the way you'd like. I'm sure you'd have support for it.

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by Nip on Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:42 pm
It's self evident it's a bug - it should behave just like you did physical transpose.

You have to make destructive transpose to follow through to chord track next time you extract?

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by Jemusic on Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:36 am
It is not a bug, but simply a feature not provided. They are both very different things.

The original midi data in its un-transposed state is important, so keep it. Make a backup, transpose and bounce the backup. Simple as that. It is smart to have both versions of that midi data anyway.

Having many midi parts being transposed in a larger and complex arrangement, and playing the instruments can be tricky and confusing. Because you are not hearing what you are seeing. If parts are being permanently transposed, then its not a bad idea to bounce them out and set the transpose back to 0. Then you are seeing what you are hearing. And you have still got the pre-transposed parts tucked away.

The fact there is a workaround means you can still accomplish what it is that you want to do without issue. The end result counts, not so much how you get there.

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by Nip on Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:58 am
Jemusic wroteIt is not a bug, but simply a feature not provided. They are both very different things.

The fact there is a workaround means you can still accomplish what it is that you want to do without issue. The end result counts, not so much how you get there.

It seems odd that what is playing is not represented as chords.

Yes, you can work around it, so I mentioned too.

But tools should assist us, right, not having to workaround the tool.
Nice if the road to end result is as short as possible.

I tested to be sure, but this kind of transpose on track level is not represented as chord either.

To me it's common sense that what is sounding is to be represented as the chord when extracting it.

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by Lokeyfly on Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:09 am
Hope this helps my friend.
What I'm thinking is why not transpose from the Musical Functions sub-menu, which can be accessed from the Event menu. That transpose selection of notes would show up at least graphically on the grid. Give that a try. Anyway, below is the Information of both processes. I've underlined the difference between the two.



Here is a reference for Transpose for instrument tracks from the User Manual:

Transposing Notes, Instrument Parts, and Tracks

Transposing notes, or changing a group of notes by a given interval, is a common action that takes advantage of the flexibility of musical data. It is possible at any time to transpose notes, a whole Instrument Part, or all of the contents of an Instrument Track.

To transpose a note or group of notes within an Instrument Part, open the Music Editor by double-clicking on the desired Part, and do the following:

Select all of the notes you wish to transpose.Select Transpose from the Musical Functions sub-menu, which can be accessed from the Event menu, the [Action] button, or by [Right]/[Ctrl]-clicking within the Edit view.Choose from one of the preset transpositions or use the horizontal fader to set the number of semitones by which the selected notes are transposed (or simply enter a semitone value into the text field). A positive number results in the notes being transposed up, and a negative number results in the notes being transposed down.

To transpose an entire Instrument Part:

Select the Part you wish to Transpose in the Arrange view.

Select Transpose from the Musical Functions sub-menu, which can be accessed from the Event menu, the [Action] button, or by [Right]/[Ctrl]-clicking within the Edit view.

Choose from one of the preset transpositions, or use the horizontal fader to set the number of semitones by which the selected Part is transposed (or simply enter a semitone value into the text field). A positive number results in the Part being transposed up, and a negative number results in the Part being transposed down.

When transposing notes or Parts, the musical notes are moved graphically to represent the change. In this case, the notes displayed are the notes you hear.

To transpose all of the contents of an Instrument Track:

Select the Instrument Track you wish to transpose.Open the Inspector by pressing [F4] on the keyboard.Enter a value in the Transpose field for the number of semitones by which the Track is transposed.

When transposing a Track via the Inspector, the transposition is not reflected graphically. The positions of the notes in all Parts on the Track remain unaffected. In this case, the notes displayed may not be the notes you hear. This parameter also affects the notes you hear when you play your Keyboard.

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by Nip on Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:28 am
Lokeyfly wroteHope this helps my friend.
What I'm thinking is why not transpose from the Musical Functions sub-menu, which can be accessed from the Event menu. That transpose selection of notes would show up at least graphically on the grid. Give that a try. Anyway, below is the Information of both processes. I've underlined the difference between the two.



In OP I described I did that - it never was about I did not know that destructive editing.

Thank you anyway - appreciate it.

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by Lokeyfly on Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:45 am
Cool, forgot you did say that in the OP. Wasn't sure what "musical transpose" meant. Well, going forward, you can see the inspector just handles this in a different manner you'll be aware of.

NIP wrote: But tools should assist us, right, not having to workaround the tool.
Nice if the road to end result is as short as possible.


We'd all like to think so. Fact is, tools often serve different uses for different needs, as we aren't all trying to do the same thing. The imediate response for a lot of us working (myself included) is "why can't it just do that? It's a bug, or has to be." Only in essence, there are multiiple uses, that either serve more widespread needs, or just don't engage the same way we expect them to.

Just a brief example. The use of a chord track can edit or identify chords where it is directed to do so. I mentioned I dont use the chord track. Only last night I created a new song and made really good alternative use of the chord track, so ill likely use it more often than I expected.

What happened was I identified some pretty unique chords when creating a few new instrument tracks. The chords found in the chord track signalled me to then follow with playing the guitar over those instrument parts, playing a relevant chord. Great for identifying changes on the fly. So the chord track took on this other roll that was pretty useful. Changing pitch with the Inspector transpose was very useful with auditioning changes super fast, without losing what were my original chord phrasing. The separate entities really were helpful as I could experiment without losing the original essence. The inspector transpose gave me instant choices without debocling anything. (Instant gratification) = Very cool.

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by robertgray3 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:07 pm
I created a FR for what you're talking about. Extract to chord track performing its operation POST transpose, as heard.

https://answers.presonus.com/43110/extr ... ing-events

The current workflow is a little obtuse so hopefully somebody notices the FR.

Jemusic wroteyou can still accomplish what it is that you want to do without issue. The end result counts, not so much how you get there.


A fair point but the end result here is that I have to manually transpose chords multiple times if I don't make my first changes destructively. This can be improved and might have been caught at its very early introduction in 4.0 if we as users weren't so quick to quietly take extra steps to get to the intended goal.

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by Nip on Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:44 pm
robertgray3 wroteI created a FR for what you're talking about. Extract to chord track performing its operation POST transpose, as heard.

https://answers.presonus.com/43110/extr ... ing-events



Thank you, voted. :)

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